what is ancient magick?

[arnab]

we all want to talk about ancient magick. but do we know what the ancients call magick? we have a very vague idea about that. we often resort to speculation. please correct me if i am wrong. but i try to define magick from various books of middle aged writers.

agrippa in his book occult philosophy wrote that magick is the wonderful mysterious virtue of all things. in his book he clearly distinguish between two types of virtue of all things: elemental and occult. he clearly said that elemental virtues are heating, cooling, drying and moistening quality of things. for example: ice is cold, earthen pot is dry, fog is moist. this cold, dryness and moisture are elemental virtue.

but there are another type of virtues among things apart from elemental virtue. nobody knows the source this kind of virtue. it is called occult virtue. for example: virtues as to expell poison, to drive away the noxious vapours of Minerals, to attract Iron, or any thing else. this kind of virtues are not elemental but occult. magick deals with this kind of virtues.

how this occult virtues are used in magick? according to agrippa they are used in mixtures resulting in wonderful effects. these mixtures are: amulate, talisman, potion, fume or smoke, Collyries, Unctions [ can you tell me what they are?] , ungent, alligation, suspension, rings, light, colors, candles, lamps etc. francis berret wrote about them in his book the magus.

till now i think it is very clear to us what the ancient call magick or sorceries etc.

many philosophers like pliny, virgil wrote about these magick in detail. after reading this post, i think ancient magick is quite clear.

[Q789]

Arnab, If i where you i would seriously consider throwing all those book in the recycle bin.
I shall be lame and quote a man who knew what he was talking about
"Magick is the science and art of causing change in accordance to will". Now he did not mean changing things physically. He meant changing yourself in accordance to your true will, your true direction in the universe, your natural direction, your natural spiritual change, your natural position of dynamic movement, constant change is the only constant.
There are other interpretations that are just as legitimate. Magick is about life which is about you achieving enlightenment, union with you inner-higher self, as Jung put it 'Individuation, Knowledge and conversation of your Holy Guardian angel, illumination, union with the divine- there are so many terms i could use. As you can see, both definitions are valid.
To learn the basis of magick in another way, study Carl Jung- it is about joining the conscious and unconscious mind- to achieve union. Try Joalandi Jacobi 'The way of individuation'.

In particular ceremonial magick, as with Buddha and Hindi is a path given to us(the human race) to aid individuals in achieving the above mentioned levels of consciousness. The Western Mystical Tradition, as with others, is a constantly changing system to deal also with the energies and levels of consciousness that lies beyond enlightenment. These systems flex to serve the needs of mankind and to eventually fulfill other changes.

It seems to me that this Agippa, whom by the way i have never purchased any of his books(for a reason) is not founded in his words. He seems to be trying to classify magick into areas. If you want a real classification system, a real proven 'map' you cannot go past kabala. Try Dion Fortunes masterpiece.

You will see that the unconscious mind operates in terms of symbols, symbols represent energies, which are the archetypes of the human psyche. But practicing Ceremonial magick to increase the 'upflow' of unconscious energies, thus increasing your spiritual growth- providing you can deal with it.

Q

[arnab]

you give me many definitions of magick. i will consider your definition and then critically examine the definition.

"

Magick is the science and art of causing change in accordance to will". Now he did not mean changing things physically. He meant changing yourself in accordance to your true will, your true direction in the universe, your natural direction, your natural spiritual change, your natural position of dynamic movement, constant change is the only constant.

now please clarify. what do you mean by natural direction or true direction? what do you mean by natural spiritual change? what do you mean by changing myself according to my will? isn't it that every time i change something like clothing, food habit, lifestyle, i do it according to my will? please give specific example of your definition of magick.

[Goatface]

I'm slightly perplexed concerning what is being asked here. Firstly it is implied that 'Ancient Magick' is an identifiable thing that one can point out and label.

You must understand, that 'ancient' is a subjective term. To me, it means almost pre-historic. Secondly, Magick is not one set of practices that can be found in all the different populations and cultures.

Your best bet, would be to have a flick through Sir James Frazer's 'The Golden Bough' which is an examination of science and religion through many cultures. Although a lot of his work is outdated, the rough of it is quite accurate and in line with what we know today.

To answer your question in short, 'Ancient Magick' in general was sympathetic magic.

[Q789]

I haven't given you several different definitions of magick, so much as i have given you several different perspectives of magick. I strongly recommend you read the basics of Carl Jung.

TO answer your question regards an example, do you know your 'inner child'?. That person inside you that has struggled with issues, personal issues, struggling to grow, to get over the challenges of life- well he/she is the person i am talking about. The inner self, the higher self, 'when all else is down only the inner self remains'. You have to find this ON THE INSIDE. it is not so much about changing cloths, or diet or anything on the outside, but about you growing up, emotionally, sexually, mentally, spiritually, coming to terms with yourself, squaring up with your self, just being, just YOU. First you must look deep inside your self to find the inner child. I shall quote the alchemical saying.

'Visit the interiors of the earth and through rectification thou shalt find the hidden stone'. It means to introspect and to fix yourself up, to circumspect. TO rectify your own faults, to WORK WITH YOURSELF. To refine yourself, To find yourself- and eventually your will find your higher self as i described above. I suggest you be ruthless and maticulate with self discovery. Leave no rock unturned.

Introspection and circumspection and the keys to spiritual development (Author) . The difference between spiritual development and personal development is only a matter of perspective.

All those symbols you find in magick, are symbolic of various functions and energies deep in your subconscious mind. They are a part of you- as the ALL IS WITHIN YOU.

Your natural direction IS your true direction, a state of constant change, movement, manifesting your true self from a timeless space. A space that is all, universally all.

I suggest you do some serious reading to get an idea of what magick is really about- and look deep inside.

Q

[arnab]

so finding my inner self is magick according to you. well, but you don't say why the supernatural powers like clairvoyance, thought reading, charms, amulate, talismans, sorcery etc. are not magick according to you.

if you say that this is so because science cannot prove them, then i will say that these powers come from herbs which modern science investigates very little. today many herbal cosmetics can preserve your youth and make you look young.a woman of 50 years of age looks like 30 years [ a magical cream for preserving youth]. this is a little demonstration of the mighty power of herbs.

now the question is from where this wonderful power comes to herbs? the answer is unknown. it is hidden. it is occult power. the literal meaning of the word occult is hidden. so these wonderful power of herbs is the real occult, mysterious and hidden power which actually do the magick.

charms, amulate, talisman, potions, ungent, collyries all use these occult power of herbs.

now you explain to me why these charms, amulate, talisman, potions, ungent, collyries are not magick according to you? with reason obviously.

[Etar]

What? You say that all magical power comes from friggin' herbs? [stare]

[Q789]

Etar- RFLMAO

Clairovyance, intuition etc are all magickal tools that are used to aid the magickain in his will. Science, has not yet caught up to magick. However, one of the reasons i suggested Jung is because he theories are as close as you can get.

As for herbs, there is no hidden science. Modern medicine, chemistry and pharmacology are well on top of it. But since we are now discussing cosmetics i might as well give you my yarn. I use Q10 as it keeps my face smooth, vit E, Aloe Vera, Retinol, Bosenwax, New Zealand Bee venom and St Ives cologen. As an ex ring fighter and athlete i picked up a few chemical pointers on how to 'stay young'.. There is no mystery behind herbs or chemistry. Only an outdated legal rhetoric.

[Stukov]

Not to troll, but ancient magic is magick that is like magick, but really old.

[arnab]

As for herbs, there is no hidden science. Modern medicine, chemistry and pharmacology are well on top of it.

science cannot discover till date from where herbs get their magical healing power. do you know from where herbs get their healing power? it certainly does not come from their body since herbs have different power with almost same body structure. then from where it comes?

I use Q10 as it keeps my face smooth

how this q10 can smooth your face? from where this power comes into the herbs used to make q10?

science cannot answer that. it only says about atoms. it does not know from where the power comes to the atoms.

[Stukov]

Science usually measures cause and effect. You in regards to an herb that smooths ones face they would have a group of people that use nothing, a groups that uses a placebo, and a group using the herb that supposedly works. After the trial is over the results are compared. If it works you should see a significant increase in the statistical smoothness in peoples faces over nothing and placebo.

If it does or doesn't, scientists look over the data to make sure there were not any errors or contamination with the experiment and run the trial again. See if the results are reproduced. If after a while it keeps showing positive correlation between the herb and smooth face they will work on experiments that narrow down what part of the herb does it so they can explain how it works and find a concrete causational theory.

The same method can be used for even magick. Even ancient magick, so long as the world and the rules are the same since then.