Key Luciferian Doctrine

[alex nero]

I'm a theistic Satanist.I identify the name Lucifer with Satan,a name which is attributed to a certain aspect of Satan,that which enlightens and teaches.I equate Satan with Lucifer,Set,and Ahriman.So I call myself a Satanist,a Luciferist,a Setist,an Ahrimanist.To avoid confusion or conflict,I'll never refer to myself as a Luciferian.

[akimbomoss]

Hi guys,

I would just like to summarize this magnificent thread and correct me if I'm wrong:

First came "Satan" who was Samuel who may have been the demiurge in the gnostic creation story. Then came Grigori and the watchers with their "devil" stuff of interbreeding with humans (which I think is gnostic too?). Then came the Assyrian ruler who became the king of Babylon and by his words got translated to "Lucifer" by the Hebrew / greeks.

Jesus didn't claim to be the son of God and was against houses of God. He was more prophet like. He got educated in the east (which would explain the huge gap in the bible when Jesus was growing up). Also didn't Thomas go to India?

[Stukov]

Hi guys,

I would just like to summarize this magnificent thread and correct me if I'm wrong:

First came "Satan" who was Samuel who may have been the demiurge in the gnostic creation story. Then came Grigori and the watchers with their "devil" stuff of interbreeding with humans (which I think is gnostic too?). Then came the Assyrian ruler who became the king of Babylon and by his words got translated to "Lucifer" by the Hebrew / greeks.

Jesus didn't claim to be the son of God and was against houses of God. He was more prophet like. He got educated in the east (which would explain the huge gap in the bible when Jesus was growing up). Also didn't Thomas go to India?

A few things you got mixed up there friend. The word Satan from traditional Christian mythology comes from the Hebrew pronoun "ha-satan" which meant, "the adversary". When transcribing the creation of the bible in the early days of Christianity in the Roman empire (Council of Nicia is the one that created the Bible as people know it today, before then it was scattered stories with differing versions and additional texts like the Book of Mary, Thomas, Judas, etc) when they turned the pronoun of "ha-satan" into proper noun/name of Satan.

The ha-satan of Jewish lore (more info on angels, demons, etc in the Apocrypha) was the Angel Samael (not SamAel, not SamUel), who was the "right hand of god/enforcer" (with some sources having Metatron being the left hand - though some also claim Metatron to be an exaulted Enoch) who "rebelled" against the Jewish "god" which led to the first "falling" of angels and the "war" that followed. In Hebrew Samael means roughly "the god of poison/the poisoned one/etc".

The Grigori were basically "angels" that lived on earth with men, as outlined in the Book of Enoch, and whose leader was Azazel, or one other name I cant recall of the top of my head. What happened in this story was the Grigori (which means the watchers, who were supposed to "watch" over earth/men for deity) was they co-habitated with the wives of men, and the result was the birth of giants (Nephilim) who were considered quite beasts, similar to the Titans/Giants referenced in other Jewish lore (the dead sea scrolls had an impartial story of them). This apparently was rather not what the deity wanted, and cast down the Grigori forcing them to be "chained" to earth for eternity. This is often called the "2nd fall".

The gnostics have way different type of story for everything. They actually believed (before all the other Christians murdered them) the deity of the old testament, the Jewish god, was an evil god, of the physical plane. That there is actually a true god, or in some stories, two gods (male and female) of the love/light/spiritual realm, and they gave birth to the Jewish god of the physical plane, but because they was not of the physical world they couldn't communicate with him. Alone in the physical world, assuming itself alone, the being called itself god of everything and expanded the physical world and creating human beings and what not. However, many of the gnostics believed our physical bodies to be prisons for our souls and that we must die one day to return our souls/spirits to the true god(s) of love/light/etc.

The Gnostics came to this belief by Jesus, who had taught...Judas if memory serves me correct, perhaps Mary as well. With Jesus teaching a much more "eastern" philosophy, far as being a good person, "god" being a caring, loving, deity, one that forgives. Which is quite contrast to the wrathful and vengeful deity/"god" of the old testament.

And no, Jesus in the oldest text never claimed to be a "son of god" or "god himself". Reading the Book of Judas you learn he was just a normal man who had keen insights into what the "truth" was, and knew of the Jewish prophecy of a Messiah. He made Judas give him in to be sacrificed so that he could fulfill that prophecy and hopefully change what he felt was wrong. Which if you read Book of Thomas (and even some within the regular "bible"), he hated the establishment. That men of power "synagog/church" used "god" as a means to keep their power and control others, and acted as a doorway to "god". He said that no one needs the church or others, and it should be just everyone directly speaking to their deity (much in the way Islam does it). He specifically hates on any idea of a church or establishment in the book of Thomas (which is why they took it out at the council of nicia). And it was there (with also the work of Paul, that exalted Jesus as a deity or son of one, in order to bolster conversion and power of the church.

Finally, the thing with Lucifer was a misreading by one Pope of the biblical text, the name Lucifer means the "light bearer" and is referenced as the North Star. Most all modern theologians know that Lucifer was not the name of the "ha-satan" or having anything to do with that, and as you mentioned was likely just an association the Assyrian King and how he "fell" from power.

[akimbomoss]

The gnostics have way different type of story for everything. They actually believed (before all the other Christians murdered them) the deity of the old testament, the Jewish god, was an evil god, of the physical plane. That there is actually a true god, or in some stories, two gods (male and female) of the love/light/spiritual realm, and they gave birth to the Jewish god of the physical plane, but because they was not of the physical world they couldn't communicate with him. Alone in the physical world, assuming itself alone, the being called itself god of everything and expanded the physical world and creating human beings and what not. However, many of the gnostics believed our physical bodies to be prisons for our souls and that we must die one day to return our souls/spirits to the true god(s) of love/light/etc.

I read it was Sophia, one of the Aeons (another word for angels) who created the demiurge without her consort Christ.

Is there a movie about the Gnostic story?

[Stukov]

The gnostics have way different type of story for everything. They actually believed (before all the other Christians murdered them) the deity of the old testament, the Jewish god, was an evil god, of the physical plane. That there is actually a true god, or in some stories, two gods (male and female) of the love/light/spiritual realm, and they gave birth to the Jewish god of the physical plane, but because they was not of the physical world they couldn't communicate with him. Alone in the physical world, assuming itself alone, the being called itself god of everything and expanded the physical world and creating human beings and what not. However, many of the gnostics believed our physical bodies to be prisons for our souls and that we must die one day to return our souls/spirits to the true god(s) of love/light/etc.

I read it was Sophia, one of the Aeons (another word for angels) who created the demiurge without her consort Christ.

Is there a movie about the Gnostic story?

I couldn't confirm or deny that part you wrote, I was going off my memory of what I read from a few different sources. I remembered the essence of the story not every detail.

Far as a movie I know the only people who look into the Gnostic stuff are history professors, maybe a few theologians, and a new agey cult groups that are trying to bring it back.

[hobotubbie]

Good historical explanation by stukov as always.. the leader of the grigori according to enoch was samyaza..

Regarding the book itself.. it's very debatable concerning the translation which can be very misleading .. but even tho he's mentioned more than once in the book it's not said that he's part of the watchers .. he's simply associated to them and "the one which all sin shall be ascribed" after the sins commited by them in the eyes of YHWH.. very nice fairytale if you ask.. anyways since he's mentioned so many times it's fair to make him part of the watchers.. in many theories he's even the same as samyaza.

Hard to know since the manuscripts were found not in the best state and translations.. are what we know.

Alot of things are left to assumption unless you know them.. if you do just go ask them!

[Stukov]

Good historical explanation by stukov as always.. the leader of the grigori according to enoch was samyaza..

Yes! Completely forgot his name. Which is kinda funny when I first started playing WoW (years ago and have quit years ago as well), the first troll character I made was Semyaza (knowing the story and needing a name that wasnt taken).

Regarding the book itself.. it's very debatable concerning the translation which can be very misleading .. but even tho he's mentioned more than once in the book it's not said that he's part of the watchers .. he's simply associated to them and "the one which all sin shall be ascribed" after the sins commited by them in the eyes of YHWH.. very nice fairytale if you ask.. anyways since he's mentioned so many times it's fair to make him part of the watchers.. in many theories he's even the same as samyaza.

Hard to know since the manuscripts were found not in the best state and translations.. are what we know.

Alot of things are left to assumption unless you know them.. if you do just go ask them!

I don't remember if its what I've read or something I picked up connected to other "sources", but Semyaza was leader of the Grigori (head of the council) until Azazel ended up getting the position (being on the council was a position of power but as politics have it, if you fall out of favor with the populace (other Grigori at the time) or gain favor you could be demoted or exalted from or to that position), who then held that position until another came and overthrew the council completely (with this last bit definitely not coming from a book.).

[hobotubbie]

Yes that last part is deffo not in the book.. interesting view tho.

He's without doubt the most controversial entity in enoch and in theology lore for sure.. so many theories :\

WoW? :|| never played it had some friends who got hooked and screwed their lifes because of that game.. can't understand why. Diablo 3 is out finally tho .. but people say it's a wow version of the far better previous games.

Anyways.. i was always more of a quake series player.

If you have more theories about the subject bring them on .. i find it very interesting.

[Stukov]

Yes that last part is deffo not in the book.. interesting view tho.

He's without doubt the most controversial entity in enoch and in theology lore for sure.. so many theories :\

WoW? :|| never played it had some friends who got hooked and screwed their lifes because of that game.. can't understand why. Diablo 3 is out finally tho .. but people say it's a wow version of the far better previous games.

Anyways.. i was always more of a quake series player.

If you have more theories about the subject bring them on .. i find it very interesting.

Theories on?

[hobotubbie]

on those entities.. never heard about the theory you were talking about.. about replacements etc.

[Stukov]

Well I suppose the idea is that at one time the Grigori had their role as "watchers", as they watched over men (and whoever else), but at some point they decided to interfere (as they saw themselves rather superior). After time went on rather than the distant, thoughtful philosophers they were, they began getting drunk with power over others. They used "lesser" races as slave labor while they ruled over them (because of course being superior, they knew better). I have equated it with what Rome became like, a class ruling over the masses, in their ivory tower. The council being equivalent to the Senate. Semyaza being leader of that council for a period of time, at least until the "Titan War" came. At which time Azazel was able to rise to power (though his move from council to council leader was not done by political maneuvering, scheming, and backstabbing, but because he was closest to the "general" who ended up being the only one who could save them from annihilation). Azazel (and the rest of the council) came down after some had "mixed" with the lesser races (creating more giants that were greatly feared) and being replaced by a "reformer" (who was also on the council) that believed in equality of all species. And this Grigori came to power as the sole leader (and imho eventually tyrant) and can be bridged by the (either really old jewish or gnostic) ancient text that talks about how the Abrahamic god was once one among many and was "jealous" of the others and overthrew them to become the one and only deity.

[akimbomoss]

So the Abrahamic god must be where the gnostics got this demiurge idea from... doesn't this god have a name? Or did we damn it by not giving it one? Couldn't it just be Samael figuring out a way to come back and make trouble?

Actually the information in this thread is shocking. I think I actually understand life the universe and everything now. No... I'm just thinking too much probably.

All I can think of now is Zadkiel looking on as Abraham is about to kill his son, in the name of Samael. But Abraham doesn't know it's Samael... so Zadkiel tells Abraham to stop.

I'm freakin out man!

[cactusjack543]

kinda strage a loud ritual praire deal of cos in cali of every witch on the planet loosing there material things is appearing deals a deal cos with a force that large prepare for a evil mankind has never seen

[Stukov]

So the Abrahamic god must be where the gnostics got this demiurge idea from... doesn't this god have a name? Or did we damn it by not giving it one? Couldn't it just be Samael figuring out a way to come back and make trouble?

Actually the information in this thread is shocking. I think I actually understand life the universe and everything now. No... I'm just thinking too much probably.

All I can think of now is Zadkiel looking on as Abraham is about to kill his son, in the name of Samael. But Abraham doesn't know it's Samael... so Zadkiel tells Abraham to stop.

I'm freakin out man!

I'm not sure what you are trying to figure out with Samael, but just to clarify, Samael was the general. And Samael was the one who assisted the "tyrant" who wanted to change things by making all "races equal" (in reality make everyone below him). It was at that point that Samael realized that the horrors done and the wars fought was for nothing, nothing remained but a monster and I went into self-exile. Aka, the "fall".

[Stukov]

Far as a name, I don't ever recall it, I suppose Yaweh sort of works, I've used Decretiel just for a name place though in my writings.

[hobotubbie]

akimbomoss is still alive!! :O

anyways.. samthefaggykid was the general? You're perspectives are interesting .. and i can see some influences from known readings that follow the normal tendency .. mixed with a few deductions/facts(?) that i never heard off.. might make sense don't know where you got them stukov.. maybe you read some different books.. self taught or talked to few people/studied the subject and got to that conclusion.

I kinda agree with your idea in a way.. but that "slave" situation .. i've heard that theory a few times related to ancient civilizations.. and in fact there are huge cities/monuments built that would require some weird techniques and great knowledge to be made.. and alot of human labour aswell.. that kinda makes sense in a way.. but i believe that they were not all in concordance regarding the enslaving of human beings.. probably there were factions and well.. don't think it was all about greed/hatred/selfish behaviours that made a few fall.. nor so for the women.. i think that being inteligent beings some had their own ideas .. and we all know about free will. We can see that in ourselves aswell its not hard.. we all have a rebel inside (or a sheep!)

Anyways it's interesting.. that relation between samthekid and azazel + gregori i never heard .. even tho for sure there is one :O

[cactusjack543]

earlier today i was at letters of devils said i control 6 billion homes void in my house worken on every website well moments later the middle of the floor with little faith went in my void guess who is facining this in your post probabbly every other post on this website and others lol cos get good tryen to pawn the site

[hobotubbie]

Yes cactus that's very interesting.. now can you please translate that to english? thank you

[cactusjack543]

Yes cactus that's very interesting.. now can you please translate that to english? thank you

void is like the abysee and aware of me i have earth void in my home basically internet as well church of satan does as well its like passing the buck onto other websites to get rid of evil

[cactusjack543]

its like taking little faith from websites forever as old ones are here and probbally centered on athiest pillar of faith grammar i told them that china in 6 months will have 1,000 active irobot data bases with me having time stamp at free casinos sports

[hobotubbie]

akimbomoss alter ego? =(

[cactusjack543]

akimbomoss alter ego? =(

tubbie ill conect to thewsite with my tv gl

[hobotubbie]

oh noes.. :|

[cactusjack543]

its mainly walls in cities no worries

[akimbomoss]

akimbomoss alter ego? =(

No. I was kidding before about freaking out. I'm not sure what's going on with Cactus. Too much chaos thinking could be to blame... it was for me once.