Forgetting on purpose

[entropic]

Not sure where to put this, its not about sigils so not really related to chaos magick. Also its a bit hard to explain but I'll try..

Lets say you have a stupid habit you want to quit, or things you want to stop thinking about. That is simple enough, but the problem is when you forget not only the habit, but also what it was and that you ever had it, and if you somehow are reminded in some way (others telling you) it sounds not directly unlikely but not familiar either. Question is what the hell would you have to do to manage the 'forget there ever was a problem'-part of it.?

[Rin]

I'm not sure I understand, are you saying you want to completely wipe this habit from your memory?

Even if it is possible, I doubt that would be a good idea. You should strive to learn from your mistakes and rise above them, not erase them. If you get rid of a habit but don't change the personality traits and lifestyle decisions that led to you developing it in the first place, you'll either regain it, or another bad habit will take it's place.

[entropic]

Hmno, you don't quite understand.. I didn't mean I want to, but seems I might have done this. And not just once either.

Habit was just an example and might be a bad one, I guess 'reason for habit' might be more accurate. Or personality traits. Lets say you tried to change one and you did that + forgot it ever was there.. I didn't get so far as to worry if this is a good idea or not yet, still trying to figure out what I really did.

[Serenitydawn]

I'm not sure I understand, are you saying you want to completely wipe this habit from your memory?

Even if it is possible, I doubt that would be a good idea. You should strive to learn from your mistakes and rise above them, not erase them. If you get rid of a habit but don't change the personality traits and lifestyle decisions that led to you developing it in the first place, you'll either regain it, or another bad habit will take it's place.

Let me see if I can help, we were talking about this last night. She is talking about the root of a problem, those deep seeded issues that are too painful to look at but cause us to do shit or dislike something...different behaviors. So she fixes it and then forgets everything. No memory of why something bothered her or how she fixed it. I think it's a damn impressive talent. [thumbup]

[TheSeeker]

Geeze, x...
If you can do that, I bet you'd be able to fire off some pretty powerful and effective sigils...

I don't know that there's anything detrimental about doing this, or having this talent.
However, for me personally I think I prefer Rin's approach.

[entropic]

Maybe I should use sigils, never did much of that. Last times I took so long figuring out suitable test stuff it actually happened before I got around to even making the stupid sigil, which made me believe it wasn't good ideas for testing after all.

Øh and yea, I can see that what Rin says makes sense, but I didn't really do it on purpose, or at least didn't know this would happen.. but I might remember things later or they'll come back again, I just have to wait and see.

[Nahemah]

Dissacotiation.

The human mind is capable of detatching itself from learned behaviours,particularly if the behaviour has negative consequences or actions related to it or remembered by it's engagement.

As I do not know the nature of the habit or it's impact I don't want to speculate more on it atm.

[Serenitydawn]

She doesn't so much mean a habit. Let me use and example. Let's say you had a bad experience, like idk you were bit by a dog as a child. As a result you are absolutely terrified of all dogs regardless of size and even their bark. Then you fix it, whatever damage to your mind and personality you fix...then you forget having the problem and how you fixed it. It becomes completely foreign as though it never happened in the first place. This was just a dramatic example to explain it, she doesn't really mean traumatic experiences...it was just the best example I could come up with to explain it. More mundane than this, but same principle.

[Nahemah]

She doesn't so much mean a habit. Let me use and example. Let's say you had a bad experience, like idk you were bit by a dog as a child. As a result you are absolutely terrified of all dogs regardless of size and even their bark. Then you fix it, whatever damage to your mind and personality you fix...then you forget having the problem and how you fixed it. It becomes completely foreign as though it never happened in the first place. This was just a dramatic example to explain it, she doesn't really mean traumatic experiences...it was just the best example I could come up with to explain it. More mundane than this, but same principle.

That's why I was using generalised terms in my response.I referred to 'habit' because that is the term xaarea used in her OP.

Behaviour is my preferred term as it is more general and describes more inclusively,but it is still vague enough to include non traumatic but perhaps still undesirable or unwanted traits and/or behavioural patterns, or ways of thinking.

Dissacotiation : a broad spectrum term that describes the ability to shut out,repress or otherwise disconnect from and consciously forget about events,persons or behaviours that were previously significant in some way.

Dissacotiation can describe detatchment and/or compartmentalisation and it is somewhat of a loaded term atm.I am sorry if my wording wasn't very clear,but it is a very general term and it describes a range of possibilities.

[Serenitydawn]

I know I am LHP and that is how I see things, but the point of the LHP is to perfect yourself. Which is what she is doing. She pulls it out, looks at it, does what she needs to do to fix it and then forgets it like a sigil. I don't see how you're getting a mental disorder out of it. [eek] It's more like black magick. [thumbup]

[Nahemah]

I don't see how you're getting a mental disorder out of it.

Err...what?

Neither do I.

Where do you percieve, that I have mentioned anything in this topic,or in regard to dissacotiation as defined here,as being labeled as/or about mental disorders?


Self hypnosis and hypnosis in general are forms of dissacotiation and only one technique of several,indeed perhaps many; including trance also,that can be utilised by almost anyone with a bit of work and self discipline.

Also,most of us,if not all,dissacociate to some level,some of the time.

It is only where it is part of a greater set of issues and it is affecting acceptable life fulfilment criteria that it should be discussed in terms of mental health disorders.

I have only addressed basic points here,in particular: defining what dissacotiation is in a broad context.I did that because of the often erroneously implied [though not by me here, actually] negatives,[which can indeed sometimes be appropriate] around some forms of dissacotiation which are and can be be, part of a greater disorder or problem.

[Serenitydawn]

Dissacotiation : a broad spectrum term that describes the ability to shut out,repress or otherwise disconnect from and consciously forget about events,persons or behaviours that were previously significant in some way.

It's a psychological disorder. Well from a psychology stand point anyway.

[Nahemah]

You posted while I was editing my post.

I'll just reiterate this part and leave it as that.


Self hypnosis and hypnosis in general are forms of dissacotiation and only one technique of several,indeed perhaps many; including trance also,that can be utilised by almost anyone with a bit of work and self discipline.

Also,most of us,if not all,dissacociate to some level,some of the time.

It is only where it is part of a greater set of issues and it is affecting acceptable life fulfilment criteria that it should be discussed in terms of mental health disorders.

[cactusjack543]

I don't see how you're getting a mental disorder out of it.

Err...what?

Neither do I.

Where do you percieve, that I have mentioned anything in this topic,or in regard to dissacotiation as defined here,as being labeled as/or about mental disorders?


Self hypnosis and hypnosis in general are forms of dissacotiation and only one technique of several,indeed perhaps many; including trance also,that can be utilised by almost anyone with a bit of work and self discipline.

Also,most of us,if not all,dissacociate to some level,some of the time.

It is only where it is part of a greater set of issues and it is affecting acceptable life fulfilment criteria that it should be discussed in terms of mental health disorders.

I have only addressed basic points here,in particular: defining what dissacotiation is in a broad context.I did that because of the often erroneously implied [though not by me here, actually] negatives,[which can indeed sometimes be appropriate] around some forms of dissacotiation which are and can be be, part of a greater disorder or problem.

aint i special sparking up new posts dissociation in my regard is every person in bc mind ya i seperate gov and religion. oh boy do i feel like feeding serentity stuff her full because no dought about it its rabbit season for number 1s right left path leaders in this town. mind ya i do like skinnin them down to the bone.

did you ever hear of my rabbit hunting days at .et i hearded sheep right on their forums gave them rules the began cos of important goals on occult forums lasted 3 days huntid every memberboy those were the days.

i promised them id close their website. i try to keep my promise in my spare time. i suppose in time ill foergive them.

but im starten to see rabbits again but skinny desperate ones need to fill there bellies rabbits sure good tasting meat

[cactusjack543]

Dissacotiation : a broad spectrum term that describes the ability to shut out,repress or otherwise disconnect from and consciously forget about events,persons or behaviours that were previously significant in some way.

It's a psychological disorder. Well from a psychology stand point anyway.

i bielieve religion says it best to trust in phycology every day people put there hopes and dreams in some await for a conversation to spark up though

[Serenitydawn]

Well psychology would label all of us with some kind of disorder simply for our interest in magick and the occult. We feel, see, and hear things "normals" don't, so we are all "crazy" according to them. [crazy]

[cactusjack543]

Well psychology would label all of us with some kind of disorder simply for our interest in magick and the occult. We feel, see, and hear things "normals" don't, so we are all "crazy" according to them. [crazy]

ya your right psychology labels religion gov everyone but then again we as witches feed on everyone in psychology as we crave the edge we so desire. what is normal IN WITCHCRAFT would amaze people in various travels we have.

psychology is bent on universal rules they bend them twist them and eat them up like science, morso on global level after i publish my rules.

we need rules in war serenity if i turn you into the anti christ i cant quite except your sorrow sorry. what rules you have?

[Serenitydawn]

Psychology is a pseudo science. There is nothing measurable, they are mostly guessing. I get to be the anti christ? Yay me!!! [yay] I make up my own rules and change them as needed. My biggest rule is always be open to change, it is the only way to perfection. If a rule no longer fits or makes sense, change it or discard it. [grin]

[cactusjack543]

Psychology is a pseudo science. There is nothing measurable, they are mostly guessing. I get to be the anti christ? Yay me!!! [yay] I make up my own rules and change them as needed. My biggest rule is always be open to change, it is the only way to perfection. If a rule no longer fits or makes sense, change it or discard it. [grin]

the anti christ were damn good buddies ive known the biggest one, taught him to be good manner rule number 1 but ive never met a sucicidal anti christ making no consequences in life for very long. did you know the next step is collecting judgements rights energy and in this case purift all connection to every witch then claim all power. neighbour went global gov but they give him 24 to live. lets scip onto this part then i could start collecting the power and wealth.

Yay you ....

might just be right about this

[cactusjack543]

you said in a post your from set going on 20 years.... im not sure if i can have a war with you. but if you are from set one of the most powerfullest witchcraft organizations on the planet among the top 100. golly fish bate lol got ta tell her id have to erase her dna from human dna geen for knowing set. top 100 witchcraft organizations on the planet i progress, stabilize and evolve to fare degrees but if i ever found out you new the satanic leader involved in mind war. id claim the back up in existence

[QofDeath]

Well psychology would label all of us with some kind of disorder simply for our interest in magick and the occult. We feel, see, and hear things "normals" don't, so we are all "crazy" according to them. [crazy]

lol Schizotypal personality disorder fits the bill!
one of it's key points for diagnosis - Odd beliefs or magical thinking that influences behavior and is inconsistent with subcultural norms (e.g. superstition, belief in clairvoyance, telepathy, "sixth sense", or bizarre fantasies or preoccupations)

psychology has it's uses, but mostly it's there to justify the lovely pills... so many colors... So many mass shootings and suicides from those damn pills... Psychology complements eugenics well.

[cactusjack543]

Not sure where to put this, its not about sigils so not really related to chaos magick. Also its a bit hard to explain but I'll try..

Lets say you have a stupid habit you want to quit, or things you want to stop thinking about. That is simple enough, but the problem is when you forget not only the habit, but also what it was and that you ever had it, and if you somehow are reminded in some way (others telling you) it sounds not directly unlikely but not familiar either. Question is what the hell would you have to do to manage the 'forget there ever was a problem'-part of it.?

quiting cigareets ya i call it a sigal at times back up when i light one why one wouldnt purify a sigal to fine tune my god given right to back up do a nice ritual lots of stars and candels well i have a few sigals but never use them.

[Nahemah]

From :

http://www.chaosmatrix.org/library/chao ... model.html

The Psychological Model
Sigmund Freud's theory of the subconscious revolutionized Western thinking in general and psychology (which he did not, as some people are wont to believe, invent all by himself) in particular. Suddenly, man was seen as a being which was only partially conscious and in control of itself. While psychology is still fighting for its academical recognition as a science, it has stamped its mark on therapeutic disciplines - and on magic.

The psychological model of magic does not purport to explain how magic works, its only premise is that the subconscious (or, as Carl Jung later retagged it, the unconscious) will do the job if it is properly addressed and/or conditioned. This again is achieved by magical trance, suggestion and the use of symbols (i.e. selective sensory input) as tools of association and as a means of communication between the magician's conscious will and his subconscious faculty responsible for putting it into effect.

Aleister Crowley dabbled a great deal in the psychological model which comes as no surprise as he not only tried to keep up with all major academic disciplines of his time but thought himself to be the world's greatest psychologist into the bargain. But all considered he remained a traditionalist exponent of the spirit model: after all Aiwass was, in his belief, a praeternatural entity. Nevertheless he did have a knack of explaining magic in psychological terms to make it sound sensible to the sceptics of his time.

A more radical approach was taken by Austin Osman Spare whose sigil magic rests on the basic tenets of the psychological model. Spare's brilliant system is in principle an inversion of Freud's theory of complexes: by actively suppressing his will in the form of a graphical sigil and forgetting it, the magician creates an artificial "complex" which then starts to work on similar lines just as suppressed, subconscious traumas will cause neurotic behaviour etc.

The psychological magician is a programmer of symbols and different states of consciousness. He is not necessarily in need of a transcendent otherworld or even subtle energies, though in practice he will usually work on the assumption that one or the other (or both) do in fact exist and can be utilized by his subconscious.

Authors such as Israel Regardie, Dion Fortune, William Butler, Francis King, William Gray and to some extent Pete Carroll subscribe to the psychological model which seems to be the primary domain of the English speaking world of magic and which has become the prevailing paradigm ever since the seventies of this century.

And what of Psychodrama?

http://satanicinternationalnetwork.wall ... topic/1174

http://www.betweenthehorns.com/2010/06/ ... itual.html

I believe there may be a degree of confusion between Psychology and Psychiatry going on in this thread.

Some clarification:



psy·chol·o·gy
/sīˈkäləjē/
Noun

The scientific study of the human mind and its functions, esp. those affecting behavior in a given context.
The mental characteristics or attitude of a person or group.



psy·chol·o·gy (s-kl-j)
n. pl. psy·chol·o·gies

1. The science that deals with mental processes and behavior.
2. The emotional and behavioral characteristics of an individual, group, or activity: the psychology of war.
3. Subtle tactical action or argument used to manipulate or influence another: He used poor psychology on his employer when trying to make the point.
4. Philosophy The branch of metaphysics that studies the soul, the mind, and the relationship of life and mind to the functions of the body.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/psychology


================================

psy·chi·a·try
/səˈkīətrē/
Noun
The study and treatment of mental illness, emotional disturbance, and abnormal behavior.


psy·chi·a·try (s-k-tr, s-)
n.
The branch of medicine that deals with the diagnosis, treatment, and prevention of mental and emotional disorders.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/psychiatry

[cactusjack543]

could you define subtle energy and its use?




google earth is due for things soon i sure like them. they promise great things. .... ....... 43 666

energy is a form of bravery and strength we as human crave it in all of history within phycology.

sun and son we witches find religion funny they always get mixed up.

as emotion knumbs for ikr xd

if it works for you fine if it doesnt ya better find out why.

ive honored levey with satans bible and rituals but the brave cos well bieng gate keeper of cali isnt always exceptable behavior.

ya know playing with the mind can be dangerious depending if you prefer over powering around you in a positive atmosphere. satanic ones however tend to enjoy suffering with their surroundings

[Serenitydawn]

lol Schizotypal personality disorder fits the bill!
one of it's key points for diagnosis - Odd beliefs or magical thinking that influences behavior and is inconsistent with subcultural norms (e.g. superstition, belief in clairvoyance, telepathy, "sixth sense", or bizarre fantasies or preoccupations)

psychology has it's uses, but mostly it's there to justify the lovely pills... so many colors... So many mass shootings and suicides from those damn pills... Psychology complements eugenics well.

Exactly. If you deviate from the majority in any way you are sent to get pills to make you like everyone else. Psychiatrists are just psychologists with an MD that can write prescriptions, they are the dangerous ones.

There are always consequences cactusjack, but if you make rules you can't change then you are stuck and can't evolve. Yes, Set has always been with me...just started poking me 20 yrs ago instead of just giving me nightmares and putting things in my head.