On seeking a tutor
On seeking a tutor
Im looking to interact and practice with others but first i would like to study under a master of chaos magick. How the hell do i find one of those?
Re: On seeking a tutor
Find one of the highest level initiates of the IOT. They take their grade system very seriously. [grin2]
Re: On seeking a tutor
yes....but where friend [pray] ?
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Jack-o-diamonds
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Re: On seeking a tutor
you have to go to the IOT website and apply.
after you apply they'll contact you through email if you meet their qualifications.
then you have to do a phone interview.
if you pass the phone interview then they'll set you up with a mentor and you'd have 6 months of training.
then you're in the iot.
i don't think they do just chaote classes.
after you apply they'll contact you through email if you meet their qualifications.
then you have to do a phone interview.
if you pass the phone interview then they'll set you up with a mentor and you'd have 6 months of training.
then you're in the iot.
i don't think they do just chaote classes.
"oh, thou clear spirit, of thy fire thou madest me, and like a true child of fire, i breathe it back to thee."
Re: On seeking a tutor
Or you could be silly and try this ancient ritual to find a wizard to teach you magick [clown] [clown] . Take a eggshell, a feather and a piece of gold. put the piece of gold in the eggshell and wrap the feather around the eggshell and hide it somewhere till the wizard finds you .
Re: On seeking a tutor
In my opinion, learning chaos magic from another person would automatically make it NOT "chaos magic," though it could conceivably be another kind of magic. The point is to experiment on your own and do what works, not to follow someone else's instructions.
How can it be chaotic, experimental, improvised, personal and insightful if it's passed from one person to another in a formal way?
How can it be chaotic, experimental, improvised, personal and insightful if it's passed from one person to another in a formal way?
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Jack-o-diamonds
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Re: On seeking a tutor
i dunno, learning technique rather than the actual magic from a chaote tutor doesn't seem (to me at least) be interrupting the chaos of it all. i know when i was learning chaos magic i was VERY glad to have a mentor, because he's been doing it for 20 years and knew all the solutions to things like:reptilian wrote:In my opinion, learning chaos magic from another person would automatically make it NOT "chaos magic," though it could conceivably be another kind of magic. The point is to experiment on your own and do what works, not to follow someone else's instructions.
How can it be chaotic, experimental, improvised, personal and insightful if it's passed from one person to another in a formal way?
what happens when i'm meditating and i start to feel panicky and my limbs are filling with adrenalin?
how do i get rid of the very specific kind of work-related thoughts that are interrupting my mediation?
when doing the image/sound/object concentrations... what do i do with the extra layers of attention that i just found?
there's a lot of strange and messed up things that your brain does when you are actually practicing everyday (not that most chaotes do, but if you're going to be in the IOT you sure do), and it's is WAYYYYYYYY harder to figure out the solutions on your own than it is for someone to just say "yeah that's normal, just do this ______."
all i'm sayin' is having someone to guide you and help you when you're all lost and stuff, in my own opinion, doesn't touch the chaos of it all.
"oh, thou clear spirit, of thy fire thou madest me, and like a true child of fire, i breathe it back to thee."
Re: On seeking a tutor
I've gotta say that as a newbie myself, I would highly appreciate having a tutor, no matter what the subject may be, as sifting through all the information (and trying to figure out what is legitimate), let alone the actual practice thereof, is a daunting task to say the least.
So I also don't think it'll take anything away from the nature of Chaos Magick, to simply help someone along. Unless, of course, the student is after a copy-paste solution by seeking a tutor.. Which doesn't seem to be the case here.
It'd be nice to have someone who can answer questions or can share some of their personal experiences, though.
So I also don't think it'll take anything away from the nature of Chaos Magick, to simply help someone along. Unless, of course, the student is after a copy-paste solution by seeking a tutor.. Which doesn't seem to be the case here.
It'd be nice to have someone who can answer questions or can share some of their personal experiences, though.
Re: On seeking a tutor
Chaos magic is to do what works, for you.
What works for me, may not work for you and likely will not. Chaote's may or may not have ideologies, religious beliefs.. you never know.
If I taught you my ways, then you would fail.
What works for me, may not work for you and likely will not. Chaote's may or may not have ideologies, religious beliefs.. you never know.
If I taught you my ways, then you would fail.
°I have left this forum, or was driven out if you will. You will not get a reply to messages or posts°
° Vulpecula °
Re: On seeking a tutor
/pedantic on
Baseline chaos magic defines God - as it were - as a massively powerful force that generates energy and the underpinnings of reality, over which are superimposed that which we recognize as natural law. God is a primeval chaotic force, in this sense, blundering but omnipotent and only concerned (if it even can be "concerned") in expressions of its own creation in whatever form it may take. This means puppies and plague, flowers and flesh-hungry xenomorphs are all equally valid in Chaos's eyes. By some not-well-understood mechanism, the actions of the human mind have an echoing effect on the generation of reality, and so by manipulating symbolic logic symbols such as sigils, the trained imagination likewise generates a tangible effect on reality. The study of magic is to understand this mechanism and strengthen the imagination in order to enact these changes. Chaos magic in particular is concerned with a scientific approach to this study. The scientific method teaches us to observe a phenomenon, develop a hypothesis to test its origin, perform an experiment to test this hypothesis, and then analyze our results in context of our hypothesis. Instead of applying this method to objective phenomena, we apply it to subjective phenomena in terms of our experience. Thus, chaos magic is less interested in molding its students into the model of an ideal magician on a particular path to ascension (as described by the tenets of the path) and more concerned with giving the chaos magician the metaphysical understanding of how the underpinnings of reality work (and thus, the mechanix of change that underlie all magical systems.) Because of this adopting chaos magic without a fundamental understanding of some magical concepts can be exceptionally frustrating, because while it is certainly more newbie friendly than Regardie's Big Black Brick, there is a hellacious initial learning curve. It doesn't help that if you approach it thinking in terms of magic (spirits and candles and incantations) and the line of thinking supporting it reads more like a technical manual or a light physics text. It also doesn't help that it's dependent on the magician enacting change within herself to such a large extent that if you expect a cookbook approach, you're setting yourself up for failure. I can describe to you how to dig a hole, sure, but I can't exactly describe to you how to first become the shovel. Such as it is with chaos magic. Therefore, it is completely appropriate for someone to seek tutelage regarding the subject, but using someone else's grimoire generally doesn't work well because the ritual in her grimoire changed her, and so reality changed. It may not change you the same way.
/pedantic off
Baseline chaos magic defines God - as it were - as a massively powerful force that generates energy and the underpinnings of reality, over which are superimposed that which we recognize as natural law. God is a primeval chaotic force, in this sense, blundering but omnipotent and only concerned (if it even can be "concerned") in expressions of its own creation in whatever form it may take. This means puppies and plague, flowers and flesh-hungry xenomorphs are all equally valid in Chaos's eyes. By some not-well-understood mechanism, the actions of the human mind have an echoing effect on the generation of reality, and so by manipulating symbolic logic symbols such as sigils, the trained imagination likewise generates a tangible effect on reality. The study of magic is to understand this mechanism and strengthen the imagination in order to enact these changes. Chaos magic in particular is concerned with a scientific approach to this study. The scientific method teaches us to observe a phenomenon, develop a hypothesis to test its origin, perform an experiment to test this hypothesis, and then analyze our results in context of our hypothesis. Instead of applying this method to objective phenomena, we apply it to subjective phenomena in terms of our experience. Thus, chaos magic is less interested in molding its students into the model of an ideal magician on a particular path to ascension (as described by the tenets of the path) and more concerned with giving the chaos magician the metaphysical understanding of how the underpinnings of reality work (and thus, the mechanix of change that underlie all magical systems.) Because of this adopting chaos magic without a fundamental understanding of some magical concepts can be exceptionally frustrating, because while it is certainly more newbie friendly than Regardie's Big Black Brick, there is a hellacious initial learning curve. It doesn't help that if you approach it thinking in terms of magic (spirits and candles and incantations) and the line of thinking supporting it reads more like a technical manual or a light physics text. It also doesn't help that it's dependent on the magician enacting change within herself to such a large extent that if you expect a cookbook approach, you're setting yourself up for failure. I can describe to you how to dig a hole, sure, but I can't exactly describe to you how to first become the shovel. Such as it is with chaos magic. Therefore, it is completely appropriate for someone to seek tutelage regarding the subject, but using someone else's grimoire generally doesn't work well because the ritual in her grimoire changed her, and so reality changed. It may not change you the same way.
/pedantic off