Book Snobs

[Frater_NT]

So, I was sitting here chatting with the wife about our fine occult library. The questions came up, how much money would you be willing to spend on a single book? Is no book worth more than, say, $50? Naturally it depends on the book and the material presented, but still, how much would you pay? The most I have ever sent on a single book was $200 for a very rare, highly in demand book about left-hand path witchcraft. What about you?

Fr. N.'. T.'.

[Rin]

It would depend on the knowledge in the book, I guess. If we lived in an era where such teachings were restricted, making books scarce and subsequently expensive, I wouldn't consider it a bad bargain to drop hundreds, even several thousand, on a book as high quality as, say, Initiation into Hermetics. These days, quantity and accessability (both of specific books and knowledge in general) drives the price down, and I find it hard to imagine any book worth that much in and of itself.

I guess I can see if you have a lot of disposable income and just want it as a collectors item, but most occult books being sold for that much these days, to me, seem to have a whiff of exploitation to them. I can understand creating collectors editions if a demand exists, but when you start doing limited runs and special editions and hinting at the mysterious and terrible previously unrevealed wisdom contained within, it feels like an attempt to cash in on those who think that there just must be a correlation between price/scarcity of a text and the quality of it's content and can't let go of the idea (imprinted in their brain by media and mythology.) of the secret leatherbound tome that will grant them knowledge and power undreamed of.

[Frater_NT]

Trust me, there is some VERY good books out there with VERY good material in them that don't come from mainstream publishers [razz] You sometimes have to go off the beaten path for the stuff that's even more hidden in the occult world! But still, come on guys, as of now there has been 20 views and one reply. How much would you be willing at most to spend on a rare occult book?

NT

[Rin]

Trust me, there is some VERY good books out there with VERY good material in them that don't come from mainstream publishers [razz]

Oh I'm sure there are, but I somehow doubt that those good books are the ones being sold in small, limited print, usually with pre-order option pushed before the buyer has any chance to look at or hear about it's content from anyone but the publisher/author, for hundreds of dollars. If a book is genuinely good, then generally you would expect the author/publisher to be happy to keep pumping out copies, either because it will spread spread knowledge and help the world, or because the book will stand on it's own merit and keep selling to new customers which gives you a larger and more constant profit stream, either way, you don't need those underhanded tactics unless you don't have any real confidence in the quality of the content of the book you're selling.

[Frater_NT]

I disagree, but lets get this thread back on track. Come on people, 35 views and only Rin has replied. How much are you willing to pay for occult books?

[Nahemah]

Willing or able? Lol.

I have spent £20 on a book before,but no more than that.

I've found all manner of interesting and rare/unusual material in thrift/charity shops and at jumble sales and so on over the years and friends have lent or shared their books as have I in turn. I haven't needed to pay out large sums for anything as I've found all I need is available from other sources.
And with the advent of the internet it's gotten a lot easier to disseminate and share information too,so now there is less need than before to pay lots for knowledge.
We also have an extensive Library service here,with less restrictions on books than many other countries.I read Blavatsky's Secret Doctrines at my local Library yonks ago, as the volumes were all just sitting there gathering dust in the Reference section.Similarly with various other 'classics' and tomes that may be deemed by some as 'essential reading.'

I guess it matters what one would define as 'Occult' also,for me philosophical,anthropological and historical works of note are important and these are also easily available through public resources or on loan etc.

[Azkhet]

Hmm, barring spending something like a tax return on a book, I'd probably blow upwards of a thousand. It would depend on the book, of course -- no matter how pristine your eBay copy of the Zohar is, there's a billion versions of the Zohar available.

[Frater_NT]

Finally, someone who "gets it"! Yeah, there are a million and one copies of the zohar floating around so there are no needs to spend a ton of money on it. The only time I think its worth buying an expensive copy of a book thats easily available is when the magician is die-hard about the tradition. Take for example the books by Crowley. Now adays you can find most of the books on amazon for no more than $40 or so. A curious seeker will just go get the pdfs, read them and not do anything with them. The magician will spend the money for the current edition (or whatever is the cheapest edition) and will put it to use. The person who goes out hunting for first edition Crowley books is the die-hard magician and I respect that. I respect that s/he is so dedicated to their tradition/craft that they are willing to pony up a few hundred bucks for some rare stuff (example, last time I checked the full set of volume one of The Equinox was going for $800 and you cant find these books other than pdf now adays). What about those lesser known traditions? What about those hidden paths even within the occult world? They are hidden for a reason! At times it really does seem that you find out about them if you are supposed to find out about them, then you get your hands on the books that tell you how to practice them if you are supposed to! Those books are rare, the internet collectors drive the prices up to insane amounts (Andrew Chumbley's books would never sell for $2,500 when he was still alive!!), but if you are to practice those traditions and you connect with it, it's worth it! There is sacrifice when it comes to this kind of work and the spirit world loves to hit the pocketbook first! [lol]

NT

[Nahemah]

Finally, someone who "gets it"!

So, I was sitting here chatting with the wife about our fine occult library.

Well,of course your wife Azkhet 'gets it' lol.

Can we cut the double-teaming now?

A curious seeker will just go get the pdfs, read them and not do anything with them. The magician will spend the money for the current edition (or whatever is the cheapest edition) and will put it to use. The person who goes out hunting for first edition Crowley books is the die-hard magician and I respect that.

The only thing die hard about the big money spender,is the money.

First edition Crowleys are awesome,if you are studying the WMT and Thelema,I suppose,but they are not a necessity.

Surely the point of the work itself gets lost somewhere if the pursuit of the 'rarity value' of a book's print edition is valued more highly than acheiving a workable understanding of the concepts that underpin the reading material itself?

Opinions and conjecture,ah,we could argue that all day about those,fruitless though it would be to do so .

What about those lesser known traditions? What about those hidden paths even within the occult world? They are hidden for a reason! At times it really does seem that you find out about them if you are supposed to find out about them, then you get your hands on the books that tell you how to practice them if you are supposed to!

You seem to believe,from this above,that the only worthwhile way to learn is through books and the rarer and more expensive [and for expensive read exclusive] the better,but I hope you know [lol]that some traditions are not reached through the printed word and what little may be recorded in books about them is not attainable magickally without learning through methods other than sitting far removed from the culture,custom and living energy that embodies these rare and 'hidden' traditions.

Just saying. [thumbup]

[Azkhet]

Naturally I do. I realize that some people believe that knowledge should be available for free (or that which is worth knowing is readily available) but it doesn't really answer the question. Our curiosity was sparked mostly due to looking at some eBay auctions where some small bidding wars have broken out over books from obscure imprints. We also know some people IRL who are willing to blow a chunk of change on books, too. Some books aren't worth the money. I have some first edition Kenneth Grant books. They're nice since they're first editions, but the information is hardly obscure. Some books are worth it because of what is available in them. This usually sparks the Sunday afternoon argument between my husband and I over whether we should half hang ourselves looking for the special edition of any such thing, or whether we can live with mass paperback. I'm usually arguing for the mass paperback because I don't care if it has coffee rings on it and smells funny so long as it's readable. If I can't get the information any other way, though, out comes the checkbook. I was going to ask what people's favorite imprints were, but if Wikipedia/Llewellyn/Weiser are as far as it goes here, I suppose it's a pointless question.

[yay] [yay] [yay]

[TheSeeker]

I've paid a couple of hundred dollars for books in the past, and I would certainly do so again. However, I usually don't purchase these for the content neccesarily, but more often because they are rarer copies. I also prefer reading from hardcovers for some reason.
Nephilim Press and Teitan are both publishing some pretty interesting stuff lately, if that's non-Llewellyney enough... [smile2]
I don't think I could ever bring myself to pay what folks seem to want for Chumbley's work though, that's for sure... [eek]

[Frumens]

For a single book I think the highest I've gone was $40 USD. If a book is really good it will withstand the test of time and enter the public domain, so I guess I see an inverse relationship between price and value when it comes to spiritual teachings. I'm usually skeptical of occult services that cost crazy high amounts of money. There are many paths to the secrets of the universe that don't cost crazy amounts of money, so what's so special about expensive books? I would only buy a really expensive book if there was something extremely specific and rare that I felt I needed to do within the book.

[Ramscha]

The highest amount I spent was around 270 euros or something (around 300$) for a book about Human Genetics and Molecular Biology.
Actually my magic is strongly extended in natural science as well as some of my rituals and visualisation using such things. A very nice example would be my chemical sigils where I worked with chemical elements based on alchemic principles drawing them in a chemical structure according to all rules banning my wish into it. I guess I will write something to that sooner or later.
Never the less I am still open minded and even try pony magic or evocation of Teletubbies (however I would never invoke such a crazy bastard). [yay]

Never underestimate such crude systems [devil]

Ramscha

[Vashta]

I spent about £120 on a book for university once, wasn't occult-related but I suppose I'd pay about that if it was a really really good book. It would have to be worth it.

[fredd3039]

I don't think your question is as easy to answer as you think it is. You have to take into account, when asking that question, the variables. There are hundreds of variables and you can literally "what if," it all day long. Here is an example: I paid $1500 for a copy of Azoetia. I then sold it after a years time for $1500. Thats the investor type of book buying. Then there is the Bibliophile type of buying like this: I then turned around six months later and bought another copy for $1200 because I realized I made a big mistake when I sold it. It was the only Chumbley work not in my collection. You also have the pricing due to production: Some of our hand bound editions at Nephilim Press cost at least $250 to produce a single volume. That's one book. It is hand bound full goatskin, archival quality paper, ribbed spine, hand marbled endpapers, etc... Is that to much???? Depends on whose buying. Is a $5000 sniper rifle too much money??? Not if it is your job and your life depends on it. How about a $100,000.00 Ferrari???? If something gives you pleasure then the sky is the limit as to what is acceptable as far as payment. There is also necessity like textbooks for college. I know people who pay $250 a textbook every semester and they need at least seven books. Ask someone in medical school what is too much for a book and they will tell you there is no limit. See what I mean too many variables and then there is the what if factor to think about. You question is not very simple.

[Frater_NT]

All I can say to that is I have no idea why anyone who got their hands on a copy of Azoetia would have sold it [razz] It's a certainty that if I managed to get a copy myself it would locked up in the gun safe when I wasn't reading it or working with it! And yes, I am the first to admit I am a complete bibliophile [lol] The wife and I have joked around about how books are our crack, rare books and old musty books.

[AngelAriel]

Hiyas!

I hope i'm not butting in the convo, especially too late.

First, I would like to say...
OMG! Azkhet is a girl?!....I thought otherwise...plz dont hate me. You're awesome.

Secondly, with regard to the question...

I have been fortunate, in the past, because of financial aid, to not have to pay for college books which ranged well into the hundreds, and I still have them, and I have found that they prove pretty valuable for their artistic and philosophical merits. Those that I couldn't purchase were given to me as gifts (literature in general) that I also find extremely valuable just starting out as an occult student, especially for inspiration on some stuff.

Right now, because I'm job hunting, I'm kind of broke, so pdf's are all that I can go on. Furthermore, I haven't really dived into these waters until some issues came up at home which I felt required in-depth investigation...sooooooo I'd say that within the past 6 months, I've purchased a few divination books in general that I greatly enjoy, and one of which I am starting to be a bit curious (skeptical) about. I had been drooling over Regina Russell's Cartomancy handbook for years, and I finally purchased the jewel this year..that was 22$. I also have Sylvie Steinbach's Secrets of the Lenormand Oracle, which I give a 6.5 out of 10. Even though I can't really read cards (in the house), I still refer to the former pretty often. I am most certain I will be referring to any of the other books, digitized or not, quite often too (Geomancy...now I'm drooling over a book on geomancy). By the way, I also utilize the .pdfs **cough** that I purchased **cough** quite frequently too.

If I had some duckies lying around somewhere, I'd probably spend quite a bit for a book that I covet. The problem is that I don't usually know what I want, lol.