Enlighten me on satanism

[autodydact]

So, I was brought up in a christian household and latterly converted to paganism. I have no malice against satanism, nor have I ever (my parents were very liberal christians and brought me up to respect all faiths equally). However, I always equated satanism and devil worship to be the same thing. Even a cursory read on this sub-forum tells me that is wrong, but I don't understand why? I know I could sit on google for a few minutes and find the answer, but I'd rather hear it from the horses mouth, as it were. So, what exactly *is* the difference between satanism and devil worship? I know that Laveyan satanists are not theistic satanists, believing in god and the devil as concepts (correct me if I'm wrong) and that there are also theistic satanists and this place has taught me that theistic satanists are not necessarily devil worshippers... I imagine it's probably because of the terms in use. In christian terms, devil and satan are basically the same thing...

Anyway, enough blathering. I would be very grateful to anyone who could give me some insight into the differences between the two. [grin]

[PeacockAngel]

My short, quick definitions:

Atheistic / LaVeyan Satanism -
This uses satanic symbolism for shock value / power trough fear. It may focus on Satan as an adversarial force against society and adjust their own image accordingly. It may see carnal pleasure as the ultimate goal and therefore be hedonistic. An individual may just like the mythology and symbols, it really varies. To be honest, this is hardly even satanism, more flashy imagery than occultism.

Traditional Satanism-
I'll keep this short as not to butcher it, this sees Satan as a deity himself, perhaps the true creator or in a henotheistic sense. Traditional Satanism, beyond imagery, really makes absolutely no sense to me.

Devil Worship-
This is the worship of the Christian Devil in opposition of God. The individual may simply choose to be evil, may do it as a type of rebellion, may believe that Satan needs pleasing to avoid hell, again it varies. The important distinction is that thy worship a lesser entity - the devil as known in Christianity - opposed to God.

Luciferianism -
Completely unrelated to the concept of Satan except through mistranslation. Interested in knowledge, mythology, advanced / moder occultism, and Self / human evolution.

Pretty damn to the point definitions, hope they work.

[autodydact]

Thanks! That does clear some things up.

[varmoth]

Traditional Satanism-
I'll keep this short as not to butcher it, this sees Satan as a deity himself, perhaps the true creator or in a henotheistic sense. Traditional Satanism, beyond imagery, really makes absolutely no sense to me.

In my opinion, Traditional Satanism makes more sense than Christianity, but I'm biased, I was raised Christian. For more, very interesting, information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yazidi

For more, somewhat less interesting, information: http://www.joyofsatan.org/

[PeacockAngel]

Traditional Satanism-
I'll keep this short as not to butcher it, this sees Satan as a deity himself, perhaps the true creator or in a henotheistic sense. Traditional Satanism, beyond imagery, really makes absolutely no sense to me.

In my opinion, Traditional Satanism makes more sense than Christianity, but I'm biased, I was raised Christian. For more, very interesting, information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yazidi

For more, somewhat less interesting, information: http://www.joyofsatan.org/

Ignoring the whole JoS thing, the Yazidi aren't even satanists. In fact , if you read that link, it'll tell you that.

[varmoth]

Ignoring the whole JoS thing, the Yazidi aren't even satanists. In fact , if you read that link, it'll tell you that.

They don't consider themselves as such, but their religion certainly seems satanist in that they worship an angel that very closely matches the description of Satan being that it refused to bow before man and all that. Except their Shaitan (spelling?) was rewarded for those actions by being made 'king' of earth by god rather than punished and sent to hell, hence for them pride and a few other 'sins' are virtues. The Yazidi seem to be a pretty secretive people and don't tell much to outsiders (can't blame them when their neighbors believe they are devil worshipers), so what I have read about them could be completely off the mark.

[Ramscha]

As far as I see this discussion going it mainly focus on the "occult" part.

Atheistic / LaVeyan Satanism -
This uses satanic symbolism for shock value / power trough fear. It may focus on Satan as an adversarial force against society and adjust their own image accordingly. It may see carnal pleasure as the ultimate goal and therefore be hedonistic. An individual may just like the mythology and symbols, it really varies. To be honest, this is hardly even satanism, more flashy imagery than occultism.

I harshly disagree with this one. Puting Lavey and the general atheistic satanism in one pot is a a really dull action. Laveys picture was more a cry against old fashioned and traditional christian structures and thinking of his time, it simply was his own personal rebellion to cry out to this one God "FUCK YOU!".
On the other hand considering the book of leaviathan (correct me if I confise the chapter) Laveys work goes a little bit into the occult direction.

Atheistic satanism generally spoken is mostly very far away from this. As you said it is mostly work with flashy pictures and thoughts. This one is of course also not a conform unit and also has its variuos directions, but it makes up the majority of the people calling themselves satanists as far as I recall. It is about those pictures and images and thoughts, going pout on its own as a kind of subculture and philosophy, far away from occultism in most cases.
I would consider it more like a kin to the punk movement from the way it evolved.

Magickal oriented satanism is a small part in the scene, and the word "satan" in the name of this movement is missleading for many people implicating that the devil himself must be involved which is definitly not the case. It may have been in the origins, as this crazy lavey turned away from christianity and took the next thing he saw as opposite to god into the name of his new way of thinking, but the devil as deity is not involved into satanism as way of thinking today. It is a synonym for the pictures, images and thoughts I spoke of.

Devil worship on the other hand is not necessarily involved in satanistic circles and their thinking. It simply is about worshiping this deity called "devil" but even there it is difficult because the interpretations what the devil really is, they differ a lot, varying from Lucifer to Satan to even fusions of several beings (involving Belial, leviathan, etc). Some chaotic approaches met the devil worshipping ways and created interesting practices like "The Current of Set" by Frater Eremor. But this is not necessarily coupled to this rebellious way of thinking, the movement and the pictures, this is the religious or spiritual approach.

Satanism is a winged word in todays linguistic usage, often used for things which have nothing to do with satanism or satanistic thoughts like some conspiracy theories about satanistic-judo NWO stuff or robbing graves which is also considered a "satanistic act" by some people who bringt this in connection with some devilish act or something like that. I would consider it in most cases an act of smattering but that is just my personal thought.

Well, I finally should add that this is the way I mostly experienced satanism (and actually practiced it myself for a while) and the impression I got from the people I spoke with and the literature I read about it. The part with the flashy pictures is the biggest and most present one as far as I know, the theistic satanism and devil worshipping is actually pretty small and often fuses with chaosmagick approaches or other things. But of course this is also the most mysterious and interesting part for many outsiders which associate satanism in general with this small part (and the most "evil" part [twisted] )

I hope this helped you a little bit to get your own picture about this topic.
As literature I would recommend everything written by Oliver Fehn as well as Michael W. Ford - Scales of the Black Serpent.

I would also have some literature tips about "satanic-black" practice which might also be interesting but I guess for now this should be sufficiant.

Ramscha

[PeacockAngel]

Ignoring the whole JoS thing, the Yazidi aren't even satanists. In fact , if you read that link, it'll tell you that.

They don't consider themselves as such, but their religion certainly seems satanist in that they worship an angel that very closely matches the description of Satan being that it refused to bow before man and all that. Except their Shaitan (spelling?) was rewarded for those actions by being made 'king' of earth by god rather than punished and sent to hell, hence for them pride and a few other 'sins' are virtues. The Yazidi seem to be a pretty secretive people and don't tell much to outsiders (can't blame them when their neighbors believe they are devil worshipers), so what I have read about them could be completely off the mark.

That's a solid point. I love what we know about the Yazidi, but for all we know it may be off the mark. Doesn't matter to me since it's all mythology anyways though, the tale of Melek Taus is one of my favorites.

[PeacockAngel]

Ramscha, LaVeyan Satanism is a whole different creature than what LaVey intended. You go tell Gilmore you're a pagan or theist or anything of the sort then ask for membership.

[Ramscha]

LaVeyan Satanism is a whole different creature than what LaVey intended.

That certainly is the case but then you can´t call it by Lavey's name anymore [wink]

You go tell Gilmore you're a pagan or theist or anything of the sort then ask for membership.

Pay the fee and you are in.

Ramscha