Why do we need so many spells (and not just one fits all)?

[DamianStraton]

Hello,

I am new both to the forum and to Wicca. On page 23 of "Wicca a guide to the solitary practitioner" I notice a spell to pay the phone bill. The author suggests drawing a picture of the bill, visualizing the bill being payed in full, rubbing a green candle with patchouli oil and reciting some words"
"I call upon the powers of the Mother Goddess and the Father God; I call upon the forces of the earth, air fire and water; I call upon the sun, moon and stars to bring me the funds to pay this bill." Then he continues with the visualization process and sprinkles sage and cinnamon around the candle, etc.

QUESTION:

Why can't this spell be used (modified), say, to kill somebody or to grow longer hair or whatever? I know killing goes against the "harm no one" law. That is not my intention, I'm just using it as an example. So the question would be, what stops anyone from reciting "I call upon the powers of ... kill person XYZ" or "I call upon the powers of ... to grow my hair, blah blah" and use a picture of "my victim" or draw some long hair, then sprinkle cinnamon and sage, etc?

I guess what I am asking (LOL) is why can't I use a single universal spell that can be customized for everything?
1. Why do I need to change herbs?
2. Why do I need to change the procedure at all?
3. Why not just use the same spell for everything.

Isn't it about prayer and visualization? If sage and cinnamon can bring me more money, why can't it bring me longer hair or get someone killed?

*** I hope my oversimplification does not offend anyone ****
*** I hope you are not offended by the "killing" example. I'm just using it for illustrative purposes. ****

I'm a newbie... just learning...

[Ramscha]

why can't I use a single universal spell that can be customized for everything?

Well, why can´t you? What is there that blocks you from doing this (except maybe some warnings in a book)?
"Try and error or try and succeed" is the most simplest practical way for your own practice as well as the one which will give you the most personal experience.
Do it in a given system or aside every given system, what is there that makes you hesitate?

I know for newbies it might be helpful/easier to have books and books and words which tell you how to do this or that. But you could also just take your book and jump with it into the cold water. Maybe it turns into a boat or ship and carries you, who knows? At least it is more fun!

Ramscha

[DamianStraton]

That's what I was thinking.

[RoseRed]

So the question would be, what stops anyone from reciting "I call upon the powers of ... kill person XYZ" or "I call upon the powers of ... to grow my hair, blah blah" and use a picture of "my victim" or draw some long hair, then sprinkle cinnamon and sage, etc?

Pretty much not a damned thing except for your own moral code. (underlined mine)

Cinnamon and sage have some pretty specific uses and hair growing and killing aren't among them.

Do you believe that you need to call upon god/esses in order to work magic or that the ability to wield magic lies within yourself?

I rarely use theurgy when it comes to practicing magic. Some people do - some people don't. It makes spells not much different than a prayer. You're calling upon an entity/god and hoping that they'll do it for you. What if they say no? What do you do then?

"I call upon the powers of the Mother Goddess and the Father God; I call upon the forces of the earth, air fire and water; I call upon the sun, moon and stars to bring me the funds to pay this bill." Then he continues with the visualization process and sprinkles sage and cinnamon around the candle, etc.

This just blows my mind. First off - which God and Goddess are you calling upon? Just some vague idea or someone(s) specific?

I just want to make sure that I've got this straight - in order to come up with the money to pay a phone bill this book has you calling upon a god, a goddess, all four elements, the sun, the moon and all the stars? Seriously? Isn't that a bit of overkill? I'm sure it'll sound cool with the accompanying ritual but - seriously?!?

[PeacockAngel]

You can't use a universal spell because you don't believe you can. Magick SHOULD be a of finding a simple, personal formula to help in all situations.

[DamianStraton]

Pretty much not a damned thing except for your own moral code.

Of course. They killing spell was just an extreme example.

Cinnamon and sage have some pretty specific uses and hair growing and killing aren't among them.

So the earth elements have specific uses. I assume people have learnt from experience what the different uses are.

Do you believe that you need to call upon god/esses in order to work magic or that the ability to wield magic lies within yourself?

Sure, especially if you are a newbie a little extra help wouldn't hurt right?

This just blows my mind. First off - which God and Goddess are you calling upon? Just some vague idea or someone(s) specific?

Good question. Unless you are killing Jeffrey Dahmer it would have to be a pretty evil God/Goddess. Plus, who are we to judge other people?

I just want to make sure that I've got this straight - in order to come up with the money to pay a phone bill this book has you calling upon a god, a goddess, all four elements, the sun, the moon and all the stars? Seriously? Isn't that a bit of overkill? I'm sure it'll sound cool with the accompanying ritual but - seriously?!?

Hahaha... yes! It must be a heck of an expensive phone bill! I think he just intended to use it as an example.

[RoseRed]

Yes, actually, herbs have very specific uses - medicinally and magickally.

I don't normally consider herbs and plants as earth elements. Rocks, crystals, dirt, sand and glass (since it's made of sand) are things I consider earth elements.

RR: Do you believe that you need to call upon god/esses in order to work magic or that the ability to wield magic lies within yourself?

DS: Sure, especially if you are a newbie a little extra help wouldn't hurt right?

That was actually a one or the other question.

Wrong. Do you really think that an archetypal image of a god/dess or any specific god or goddess is going to do anything for you? Or that an actual god or goddess has nothing better to do than cater to petty concerns? By saying "I call upon so-and-so to work my will" is not only calling upon but demanding that a god or goddess do as they're commanded. There are gods and goddesses that really don't like that shit and will more likely smite your ass for it than not. I'll grab the popcorn and watch from a distance if you want to try that with Kali or Zeus.

I think that a newbie would be better served to learn what the hell they're doing, educate themselves and practice working on their skill sets than to think that they can command a god or goddess to do their bidding as a crutch.

Good question. Unless you are killing Jeffrey Dahmer it would have to be a pretty evil God/Goddess. Plus, who are we to judge other people?

Why are you equating death to evil? It's not about good or evil it's about level of power. Everyone dies at some point. Some god/desses have associations with death. That doesn't make them evil - it just means that they work in that category of things.

Who are we to judge other people? Please. People walk around judging all day long. Just because they don't speak aloud their thoughts doesn't mean they don't have them. If you want to walk these paths - being honest with yourself is a good a place to start. If you want to practice magic then you need to know exactly where you stand with judging others because EVERY act of magic affects others and your choices come from your judgements. I realize it's not the politically correct thing to say but Know Thyself is so important for a reason.

Hahaha... yes! It must be a heck of an expensive phone bill! I think he just intended to use it as an example.

I have no idea. You're the one that read the book and now it reads as if you're not sure if it was an actual spell or just an example.

There is a difference between Wicca and Neo-wiccanesque. Wicca is an Initiatory Mystery Tradition that is also a religion. Neo-wiccanesque is what passes for witchcraft now-a-days. Have you heard the term 'fluffy bunny'? You can access the website 'Why Wiccans Suck' through the Wayback Machine or through some blogs that have reposted the material. I think you'd find some useful information and food for thought if you checked it out. The website is not about Traditional Wicca.

[DamianStraton]

Do you really think that an archetypal image of a god/dess or any specific god or goddess is going to do anything for you?

Nope.

Or that an actual god or goddess has nothing better to do than cater to petty concerns?

Nope.

By saying "I call upon so-and-so to work my will" ...I'll grab the popcorn and watch from a distance if you want to try that with Kali or Zeus.

The author of that spell is Mr. Scott Cunningham. He died at the age of 36. Rough death, actually. He had been ill for a long time and it appears that he suffered quite a bit. Maybe he started his spell with "I call upon Zeus..."?

Why are you equating death to evil?

If I can use that line on a judge I may not need a killer spell after all..! On a more serious note, I guess it depends on the type of death, right? I'm assuming if someone wants to get a person killed they may ask for something painful enough so they can "grab the popcorn and watch" ...

Who are we to judge other people? Please. People walk around judging all day long...

True.

If you want to walk these paths - being honest with yourself is a good a place to start. If you want to practice magic then you need to know exactly where you stand with judging others because EVERY act of magic affects others and your choices come from your judgements...

Good point.

There is a difference between Wicca and Neo-wiccanesque...

Are you a Wiccan?

[RoseRed]

If I can use that line on a judge I may not need a killer spell after all..! On a more serious note, I guess it depends on the type of death, right? I'm assuming if someone wants to get a person killed they may ask for something painful enough so they can "grab the popcorn and watch" ...

You're thinking small. Death is a release. The punishment is in living a long and horrid life.

Are you a Wiccan?

No. I'm just a witch. I don't claim Wicca as a religion nor do I base my magical practice in wiccanesque principals.

I do, however, have a younger relative who is one of the fluffiest bunnies I've ever met. She's an embarrassment to the Family Tradition.

[RoseRed]

As far as books - Buchanan's big blue book isn't bad if you ignore the religious parts. The Farrar's Witches Bible has some good info on practical magic but it's all Outer Court teachings. Cunningham's ok for beginners - especially his herbal works. Stay away from $ilver Ravenwolf. But you need to separate the religious aspects from the practical magic in all of them.

You won't find a while lot written on Traditional Witchcraft. You can check out Chumbley's work for Sabbatical Witchcraft.

What is it that drew you to the Wiccan books other than their availability? What other types of practice have you looked into or are interested in?

[DamianStraton]

@RoseRed Thank you for the book recommendations!

I believe in the occult because I have used divination methods for about 8 years and they work very well for me (meditation, and dreams for example). The visions I have when I dream or meditate always come true and they are not even subject to interpretation, they are very clear and real. I also used Tarot, and it works but it is nowhere near as good as closing my eyes and seeing things (for myself, I have never tried to do anything for others). I've been interested in Wicca for some time but I have not acted on it. Now there is something I want to change and that's what sparked my interest.

What about you? How did you get into witchcraft?

[RoseRed]

That's more psychic than occultic. There's a huge field of psychism that has very little to do with the occult.

I was born a witch into a family of matriarchal witches. In my family's tradition you aren't trained, other than how to control your natural abilities, until after the birth of your first child. My Grandmother died shortly after that and I was untrained. I studied and practiced quite a bit with different psychic abilities during my youth, a little divination here and there, got into astrology and other things but I didn't venture into the realms of magic until my early 20s.

I was attacked magically over a mundane situation. That was my first real intro into magic. I figured that magic was the best way to fight magic and I was a quick study. I had a natural talent for it and with education and practice became quite good at it. There's nothing quite like a Witch War to realize that you either sink or swim in this.

Some people disagree but I think one of the most important things for a 'newbie' to learn is psychic self defense. Especially if you're on internet forums or plan on interacting with others in the real world. There are a lot of people out there that can reach you through your posts and there are a lot of people out there that will attack over any imagined slight or simply because they disagree with you.

[RoseRed]

Now there is something I want to change and that's what sparked my interest.

so, what is it that you want to use magic to change in your life?

[DamianStraton]

@RoseRed I just need to make a business related change and I want to use magic for that.

Interesting what you said about being under attack. What made you realize that you were actually under attack? I imagine that being born into a witch family has a lot to do with your ability to pick up the craft so quickly.

The concept of psychic self defense sounds very interesting. I will have to read up on that.

[RoseRed]

I walked out my front door the physical components of the spell were staked out in my front yard. There was nothing subtle about it.

I already had years of energy work under my belt at that time and so I was able to to figure out what it was rather quickly.

[varmoth]

You can't use a universal spell because you don't believe you can. Magick SHOULD be a of finding a simple, personal formula to help in all situations.

All of my most successful spells have followed the same formula: Be alone in the middle of the night, lying down,
pull energy into myself from the earth and the void,
feel my body fill with an even mix of these two energies,
concentrate on what I want without thinking about anything else for a few minutes, <<(second most important part)
send out the collected energy with the intention of fulfilling my will,
FORGET <<(this seems to be the most important part)

No banishing ritual, just forget about it all and go to sleep. When I use this 'formula', no matter the intended outcome, I seem to get what I am after nine times out of ten.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some people disagree but I think one of the most important things for a 'newbie' to learn is psychic self defense.

I agree, but it is an area I have not devoted as much time and effort as I should. Do you know of any good references (preferably books) on the subject?

[Asurendra]

Here are a few recommendations for psychic-self defense:

I think this is the best and it is metaphysically neutral.

http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Psychic ... ic+defence

Dion Fortune's book won't appeal to you as there are Judeo-Christian overtones, although magically used.

This has some good material and it may be adaptable for you. At the very least it is a source book

http://www.amazon.com/Witchs-Shield-Pro ... ic+defense

[RoseRed]

PeacockAngel wrote:
... Magick SHOULD be a of finding a simple, personal formula to help in all situations.

I believe that there is great power in simple things.

I've spent the last decade simplifying my Craft. But, I'm not a Ceremonial Magician. I don't need all the extras and doodads. Some people like complicated - to each their own.

[Asurendra]

Hello Rose Red aka 'Little Miss Moonbeam,'

I agree with you that Ceremonial Magick can be overblown. Looking at the rituals of the Golden Dawn and the Gnostic Mass I think they are absolutely boring! But, some of the doodads are helpful as physical expressions of Will, particularly when dealing with some 'materials' that you probably would not evoke as a part of the Craft (I admit that is an assumption).

At the core, though, all is energy work in my opinion!

[varmoth]

Thanks for the links, Asurendra. And I agree with you on ceremonial magic.
The simplest rituals have always worked the best for me, but I feel silly when I try something grandiose and that might have been defeating my efforts.

[RoseRed]

Some of what I do in my own magical practice is far outside the realms of what most consider witchcraft. It's an accurate assumption for stereotypical witchcraft - just not quite for me. LO

And I'm right there with ya - when it comes down to the lowest common denominator, core, basics - it's all about energy manipulation. The word energy encompasses a whole lot.

[sonko]

Hello,

I am new both to the forum and to Wicca. On page 23 of "Wicca a guide to the solitary practitioner" I notice a spell to pay the phone bill. The author suggests drawing a picture of the bill, visualizing the bill being payed in full, rubbing a green candle with patchouli oil and reciting some words"
"I call upon the powers of the Mother Goddess and the Father God; I call upon the forces of the earth, air fire and water; I call upon the sun, moon and stars to bring me the funds to pay this bill." Then he continues with the visualization process and sprinkles sage and cinnamon around the candle, etc.

QUESTION:

Why can't this spell be used (modified), say, to kill somebody or to grow longer hair or whatever? I know killing goes against the "harm no one" law. That is not my intention, I'm just using it as an example. So the question would be, what stops anyone from reciting "I call upon the powers of ... kill person XYZ" or "I call upon the powers of ... to grow my hair, blah blah" and use a picture of "my victim" or draw some long hair, then sprinkle cinnamon and sage, etc?

I guess what I am asking (LOL) is why can't I use a single universal spell that can be customized for everything?
1. Why do I need to change herbs?
2. Why do I need to change the procedure at all?
3. Why not just use the same spell for everything.

Isn't it about prayer and visualization? If sage and cinnamon can bring me more money, why can't it bring me longer hair or get someone killed?

*** I hope my oversimplification does not offend anyone ****
*** I hope you are not offended by the "killing" example. I'm just using it for illustrative purposes. ****

I'm a newbie... just learning...

Yes you can do it and still get the results but the thing is there are some herbs specifically know for doing certain things like lantana camala is know in my area when mixed with some other herbs good in drawing love.
Some spells are designed to do specific things and you can find that their rituals invokes the spirits which adds more energy than others spells but the path you follow matters a lot.