Building my own system..where I'm at...help if you can

[Skadi]

So I've read. Lots. I don't even know where to start listing what I've read...I've read Initiation to Hermetics, Magick without Tears, Sorcerer's Secrets, Donal Kraig's Modern Magick, Summoning Spirits, Visual Magic (Jan Fries), Book of Lies and Disinformation, Phil Hines Condense Chaos, Liber Null and Psychonauts, Ceremonial Magic and the Power of Evocation (Joseph Lisiewski)...and much much more.

So, I've tried Donald Kraig's Modern Magick. I liked it, but I'm not huge into the entire system. I've never tried Initiation into Hermetics, because it seems a bit overwhelming with all the commentary, not to mention different views on it I've heard (which just make me confused on the importance of time and length spent...as well as certain steps).

I've tried chaos. I haven't even been able to make a sigil work. I've done hundreds of them, and I can look at what I made and I don't recognize what each one means (hopefully meaning that I've detached myself enough to let my subconscious work.) Don't know why. I'm not asking for the impossible, but things seem to go the opposite of my intent. I create a sigil to bring people with occult experiences closer to me, to create friendships and a network. I end up getting more withdrawn. I create a sigil to bring guidance, or a mentor. I end up losing my way even more.

In normal life, I'm pretty normal. Make enough money to live, as well as indulge in some hobbies. I'm getting a degree, while working a job that is flexible yet provides me with enough money. So I'm not some weird recluse who lives in his parent's basement. I'm good at my job and I get good grades. But, when it comes to the occult, I just can't get shit going.

So where does this lead me?

There is one thing I'm drawn to. I can't help but keep coming back to it. It's the creation of my own system. It's the developing of something unique to me, that really makes me excited every time I think about it.

And what is this system? I don't know yet. I am drawn to the symbolism of the four elements. It's like basic building blocks I can manipulate in different ways and amounts to create larger structures. Ice = water + (-fire). (Also, know that my major is mechanical engineering...if that helps at all. Going into my junior year).

I am also confused as to the elements. I know the symbolic nature of different elemental systems. Using the void, spirit, or what have you element as the fifth element. I haven't come to terms with this yet. If you have a catch all, what is the need for the other building blocks? Is it the essence (the beginning) of the others? Or is it the end? Can it be both (going cyclical?) Or is it the energy component to the mass (the other four)?

Things I am drawn to:
OBE
Astral Travel/ Traveling to different realms
Servitors
Elemental manipulation (especially involving the weather...if that is even possible I'd love to experiment with it)
Natural events (Geological, storms, etc, etc)
Fire manipulation
Experiments involving elemental correspondences (i.e. pure example, but to ignite passion I use the element fire, and only the elements)
Mental aspects (manipulating dreams, planting thoughts and images..influencing through seeding the thought process)

What do I hope to do with my own system? Well, one aspect I think I really like is the intuitive aspects. Do I use tools? If I feel the need to at a certain point, I do. If I feel intuitive about something, I go at it. But, backing up that intuition, I also experiment. I might have a gut feeling to perform something, but always I keep careful notes and experiment to see what works best.

I guess I'm looking for your input and ideas. One thing I've done consistently is meditation. I'm proud of that! Hahaha.

I'm structuring it from the ground up. Starting on Stage 1 - Mastery of the mind.

I'm thinking from there, I go into devotional periods where I immerse myself in the elements. I want to develop a meditation for each element. Work with the energy (whatever that is, still something that confuses the hell out of me.) Devote myself to them, one at a time. I'm thinking a three month period for each element, meaning that in a year I've let myself be consumed with each. From there, I plan on experimenting with mixing the elements for different results.

Although I have this broad idea, the specifics still escape me. Any suggestions? Input? What am I missing? What could I be doing different?

Thanks a head of time,

Scott

[wombocombo]

That sounds very interesting. Maybe you could start a blog and report some of your findings there. It would be a great way to reach out to the world and you would likely find people of similar interests that way. I'd read it, don't know about anyone else tho, I am a very out of the norm.

[RoseRed]

Keep a record of what you do and learn. Some call it a Book of Shadows, a grimoire, a journal - whatever.

If you're really into computers do it that way. I prefer paper. A 3 ring binder is a great way to start since you can move the pages around once you get a table of contents going. When you're happy with it you can copy it into an actual BoS or grimoire.

Anyone who is not following an established path or specified religion (like Lineaged Wicca) is building their own system or path.

[Asurendra]

What is the theoretical or metaphysical groundwork on which you are building this structure?

[Skadi]

Thank you all for the replies. I guess following a path, and following a "cookie cutter" plan are two different things. If you follow, say, initiation into hermetics, I consider that a cookie cutter plan. Not that there is anything wrong with it (on the contrary, just by reading it, I'm sure anyone who really follows it will gain so much from it).

There's one occultist's saying, and only one, that I take for truth (without having experimented/experienced it myself) and that is "Let success be thy proof."

I can't do cookie cutter. First I must make an assumption or guess. Then based off that guess I lay out a plan to follow. I think that's what I mean by "my own path"...in that it's my own hypothesis that I then structure a program to specifically try and answer.

"What is the theoretical or metaphysical groundwork on which you are building this structure?"

Now to answer this question. I guess I'm not taking my groundwork from metaphysics. I am assuming something and structuring a plan to prove it. My hypothesis really is broken down into many sub-hypotheses (which doesn't make for a coherent hypothesis in science...but whatever)

1. If I break down the classical elements I can reconstruct their parts to build new things (structures, what have you) that accommodate any situation.

2. In order to develop tools to deconstruct and reconstruct the elements, I must master my mind with meditation and trance work.
2a. Meditation will provide me with the clarity, focus, and control that I need.
2b. Trance work will help my reach my subconscious, which understands these mysteries greater than I, and will, at some point, allow me to work in tandem with my subconscious mind to better use the tools I have available.

So these are the foundational statements of where my system comes from.

-Skadi

[RoseRed]

Have fun with that.

Question about #2. Are you actually saying that you want to construct and deconstruct the elements (as in earth, air, water and fire) through meditation? You do realize they are actual things, right?

[Skadi]

Have fun with that.

Question about #2. Are you actually saying that you want to construct and deconstruct the elements (as in earth, air, water and fire) through meditation? You do realize they are actual things, right?

Well...they really aren't things. Water, fire, earth, and air are not physical elements. I.e. Earth is a planet, it's also a general term for ground or soil, which is composed of so many different things.

I'm talking about how they are broad ideas in a classification system, which represent smaller ideas.

But air....it's composed of 9 + gas compounds. Water is nothing more than two oxygen atoms covalently bonding with a hydrogen compound (which, in turn bond via hydrogen bonds with other water molecules).

They maybe could represent phase changes in matter. Water = liquid, earth = solid, fire = plasma (generally speaking, though, the difference is most plasmas have a high percentage of ionized atoms that smash against each), air = gas. But, then again, where do superfluids (liquids with 0 viscosity) and degenerate matter come into play? (Plus other states).

My point is very simple...even in the scientific world, they are not really "things" (except for water...which is a thing) but categories and classifications. Air is a term for atmosphere, which can change dramatically between planets, for example. Fire is generally used as two terms : the general combustion and continued combustion of a fuel....or specifically, the combustion of an oxygen (so...is fire really a side effect of air, now?)

I

[Rin]

If you're interested in elemental magic I would highly recommend this article:

http://forums.vsociety.net/index.php/topic,5141.0.html

However, I suspect that any attempt to build your own system without having already developed an expertise in other systems is doomed to failure.

[Nemiel]

I'm not asking for the impossible, but things seem to go the opposite of my intent. I create a sigil to bring people with occult experiences closer to me, to create friendships and a network. I end up getting more withdrawn. I create a sigil to bring guidance, or a mentor. I end up losing my way even more.

There is one thing I'm drawn to. I can't help but keep coming back to it. It's the creation of my own system. It's the developing of something unique to me, that really makes me excited every time I think about it.

I think the problem may be that you have a conflict in the execution.

You seem to be drawn to creating your own system and also looking for guidance and a mentor - individual intuition from inspiration is one thing, but using your will in magick to find someone to follow is quite another.

Maybe you should try learning the art of another, purely as a follower, to be mentored and as a student and then try and create your own system afterwards, trying to do both is a conflict.

The other way may also be of benefit - go solo and then follow anothers' art. Magick is usually very intuitive and individual to each practitioner, but the purpose is to produce results by setting the desired outcome and following it through, so in my opinion, I think you should choose the way you wish to practice.

I am an amateur myself, but I did have some mild success as a solitary practitioner, I don't really think I am too good at following and group magick, it may be that you are the same, that you need to go it alone - the best thing is to practice all the time (if possible) maybe you could try changing the goal of the ritual.

Anyway, food for thought, but I just noticed that your operation may be conflicted - it is ideal to have a straight forward path of what you wish to achieve.

You have everything in place to attract someone who may be of more help though, using forums etc, so maybe you will have someone come along who can inspire you, hopefully

Good luck and feel free to chat with me if you want to discuss anything, I too am getting into the swing of things as of late

[Belial]

Are you referring to founding your own system of magic and or organization, or are you simply stating that you find linear system progression to be something that does not work for you? If you intend to found an order that's a serious commitment taking a great deal of knowledge and skills, and more than just in the field of magic. On the other hand blazing a personal trail, taking what you can from things, and finding what works for you and others, experimenting along the way, I feel is an ideal method of magical exploration and development. Whichever is your intent work hard and don't lose your drive.

The symbolism of the four (or five (or way way more if you were a chemist)) elements is definitely equatable to the fundamental building blocks of things, that's the primary function of the concept of elements after all. If you find yourself drawn to this notion then run with it.

Since you seem uncertain of where to take the matter or what to lay as the base of the matter, try conceiving many structures from your scope of perception then repeatedly break them down over and over into the smallest parts you can. You'll have a mess of things and it won't be as pretty as the idea of four elements but you'll have something that you can simplify or reduce in either manner you wish and into something that makes sense to you. I find myself breaking things down into sub, hybrid, and rogue elements as well as phantom influences. On the odd occasion I sometimes notice more influences or anomalies than I had been aware of previously forcing me to widen my scope and observe them. Find something that works for you.

If you're taking the elements and symbolically translating them into states of matter rather than substances it may be taking a step away from the building block principle/recipe, but sill has it's own interesting implications. Using states you may find yourself focusing on the elements of change more than the elements of nature. The relationship between the elements would depend on the model you were proposing, though perhaps you can bring static and dynamic models together in some manner of stable duality.

Shifts in state of matter wouldn't run on a cyclical motion, thanks to a number of things that jump between and bridge different states, thanks to phenomena such as sublimation. The base elements as building blocks of life are something else too, though I generally approach that in a way similar to recipes, more like chemistry than a cycle. Out of those means I don't know that I can see them as part of a cycle.

The idea of the fifth element is often something along the lines of spirit or void as you say. I would warp that concept a bit and call one the part of everything and the other the part of nothing. Spirit is either seen as the mystical breath of life, giving animation to things, or the sum of it. Generally mixing the four elements together (Fire, Water, Earth, Air) results in life, the fifth element being the essence behind it, or possibly the byproduct of it. The other fifth element as void or null brings things closer to the concept of nothing, or a negative element. That would be the death of elements, though death is often a matter of change, it brings a unique force into the equation. There are a lot of ways to interpret the matter and none of them are perfect, including my own, though I adapt to compensate.

I like the way you're going with the science of things. Keep as detailed of records as you possibly can. Experimenting is always a great thing to do, it helps acquire new data and test theories and models. Keep going with that. If you're not already breaking things down between objective occurrences, thoughts, and feelings, then it would be a good practice to indulge recording that way in detail.

Mastery of the mind is probably a good place to start. Though that's a pretty complex matter in and of itself. The mind is full of intricate facets and functions. Exploring neurosciences, psychology, and mind centered magic fields would certainly be useful in the development of that area.

The period of focusing on the elements individually is a good way to go. The elements you choose to focus on would change the way you focus on them however, so you'll want to find something you're comfortable with first. Studying and understanding the mechanics of each one's functions and nature are a good step as well, something I always advocate. Don't force yourself into a rigid mold for exploration though, let yourself a bit of freedom with it. Bringing them together in the future is another long winded matter, but a fun opportunity.

Anyway you brought up a number of topics of interest. Elemental manipulation, Projection, Servitors, etc. Those are pretty large topics individually, I don't want to touch on any here quite like this, they are all rather deep. It's bad enough I'm rambling right now, I don't want to open up that venue up right yet. I could ramble almost indefinitely regarding any of these individually, and if I did so here it would be a mess.

Good fortune in your endeavors.

[chriswalt]

This sounds far too much like spiritual alchemy my friend. Spiritual alchemy is known to classify those four elements as different physical states, as well as spiritual methods that lead to phases. There are 7 prime phases of spiritual alchemy.

http://youtu.be/DGyYIJpMC-k

This video is quite informative on some of the aspects of practical alchemy, but primarily focuses on spiritual alchemy. You could learn a lot from this, and perhaps better structure your new system with this knowledge. I know this isn't much, but I hope this helps!

[NariusV]

Here is one suggestion that has worked for me.

Step 1.
Get clear on your goal. Until you do that there is no way to move forward, since you will not know if you are closer to what you want. In this case it is a development of a system. But what does that system do? If it is simply a set of theories, then you don't need to do anything else than write down your ideas. But I imagine you are after something more, so get clear about what that is.

Step 2.
Try some thing that you think might be fun and help you reach your goal.

Step 3.
Keep a record of what you do, and the results you obtain.

Step 4.
Repeat steps 2 and 3, referring to Step 1 and revise as necessary. After some time, once you have had some good results (success), go onto Step 5.

Step 5.
Go back and examine your notes, and compare what you did to find out what works, what doesn't, and why. Include in your system those things that produce good results for you. Then if you still have unanswered questions, head on back to Step 1.

EDIT: One other perspective on elements that I think is great, is on neuromagick.com which you might check out.

[RoseRed]

Well...they really aren't things. Water, fire, earth, and air are not physical elements.

So, if someone smashed you in the face with a rock are you really going to say that it couldn't possibly have hurt because it's not really a physical thing?

[manonthepath]

Well...they really aren't things. Water, fire, earth, and air are not physical elements.

So, if someone smashed you in the face with a rock are you really going to say that it couldn't possibly have hurt because it's not really a physical thing?

What he probably was referring to is that all matter is merely a state of dense particle fields consisting of energy. This energy is not an entity, but a series of dynamic cosmic vortex actions and relationships. If one was hit by a rock, which is a relatively dense energy field, the molecules field activity in our bodies would experience the activity of molecular avoidance when their field integrity is influenced by the field of the rock. This activity would cause a chain of reactive activities, which would include pain messages. If you are interested, there is much great material all over regarding quantum physics and such. I like to compare the energy fields we call bodies to weather patterns. Looking at atmospheric physics will help you better understand these concepts. You might want to begin with a Wiki search into atmospheric physics and the dynamic of cyclones. This will give you a basic look at the vortex dynamic. Then you can move on to quantum physics.

Here are two fun links that may be if use if you watch all the way through:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jHsq36_ ... 7OQTooZtKw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4V-ooIT ... 7OQTooZtKw

[RoseRed]

I do know what he was referring to. My point was that in trying to deconstruct something to a molecular level people can sometimes forget that objects are solid.