You are not a bother, love. Questions are what forums are for.Hirandall wrote:Hi,thanks for replying and sorry for bothering you again:
I’m sorry that life keeps happening around here (busy time of year) and so my responses are delayed. I also don’t want to dominate the conversation. When I wrote that the typical novice thing to do at this point would be to object and say it "wasn't psychological" and "wasn't in their head” I was referencing a defense mechanism that often appears at early phases of practicing magic.Hirandall wrote:Regarding your previous post, what do you mean by "typical novice thing" and " Perhaps it is and perhaps it isn't" ?
The reason I wrote that it was a “novice” thing to do is because when that denial is a knee jerk reaction it most typically displays a “need” for magic to be real, a desire for validation. Boiled down, it often indicates that the person is trying to reassure themselves of not being crazy. People often hear psychological and think it is a synonym for delusional. The reality of magical practice is that psychological or physical factors do affect results. Magic, influencing events through spiritual means, does not replace those factors, it is simply another cause.
Let me explain with an example. Let’s say you want to get better at psychic “readings”. The “novice” may research tarot readings or scying and work on their meditation. The problem is that they would do this ONLY.
Those who have practiced for a while will most often also acknowledge the physical and psychological aspects of “reading” as well. On the physical level, there are the nuances of body language and expressions, which could be consciously or subconsciously “picked up” by the reader. On the psychological level, there is the practitioner’s awareness of human psychology (many psychics would also call themselves spiritual therapists). Also on the psychological level is the practitioner’s own preconceptions and subconscious prejudices (which can alter the interpretation of the “reading” and therefore its accuracy).
Thus there are both physical and psychological factors in giving a reading. The fact that these things exist, however, doesn’t mean that the spiritual factor, the magic level, is not ALSO involved. That is part of the point too. There is such a thing as “spiritual” influence on physical events, or magic (as I’m using the term).
The knee jerk reaction of denial, the often “need” to believe, is a trait of a novice because in such they show that they have not experienced magic itself enough to believe. Their "faith" gets shaken by the questions. The difference is the perspective of time and experience. After years or decades of practice, magicians believe in magic because they have seen it repeatedly for themselves. Their beliefs are firmer because they have the experience of witnessing the results. It is easier (though there may always be times of struggle) for them to look at all of the possible factors and not to deny the possible physical causes, because they have seen enough times that even if this one event is “debunked” other events that are pure magic have and will occur. There is less “need” to hang on to the validity of a single event, because they have in their experiences a number of events that have already been shown valid.
Regarding this statement:
What I mean is that there is in reality of life often a number of causes for a single event. For one thing, using the example above of psychic readings, tv shows like The Mentalist and Psych have shown that it is possible to “fake people out” as a psychic using only the physical and psychological means. Studies in psychology (like the concept of self-fulfilling prophesies) show that it is also possible to do things to yourself and others on a subconscious level. These things, while they still can be controlled and improved through focus of will, are not magic in the sense that we are using the word here.ne1 wrote:Perhaps it is and perhaps it isn't; the point is if you actually want to control the practice of any magic you would need to seriously consider the possibility.
In the practice of magical manifestation and awareness, all three factors in causing events—physical, psychological, and spiritual—would need to be considered for a number of reasons. For one thing you can easier spot the “fake out” people and protect yourself. For another you can learn to not fake yourself out and then use the information to better fine tune your own practices and improve in your magical practices overall.
To use the psychic example again, if you wanted to get really good at giving readings to people, you would need to work on your awareness of body language, your knowledge of human psychology, as well as the particular skills of the more spiritual practices of divination or vision work. Working on only one aspect may help that one aspect, but the reality of the practice of psychic readings is that many skills are needed, not just the Magic side. Thus what I meant about learning to play the guitar by practicing basketball. If you want to learn a skill, you would need to break down that skill into its parts. The psychological and physical causes cannot be denied.
I don’t understand this aspect:Hirandall wrote:When you say there is nothing worry about my experience , you mean just go and do whatever that I suspect might be cursed because the only potential problem is psychosomatic and it is negligible ?
Could you rephrase?you mean just go and do whatever that I suspect might be cursed
I can answer in regards to the second half of the question
No, I’m not saying it is only psychosomatic. It could be; it may not be. I am not present in your life and cannot see all the factors for myself so I cannot know. I’d also point out that even if some aspects of a magical working can be explained through psychosomatic causes, it does not mean that they ALL can. Also even if you do conclude that this particular situation is all psychosomatic that also doesn’t mean that other, similar, events are by default psychosomatic as well. Each event would need to be looked at differently and you are the best judge in the end about how to look at it.because the only potential problem is psychosomatic and it is negligible
Two things. One thing is because you have described the possibility of cursing someone and have indicated that this, if so, was not what you want to happen. Because you have said it was not intentional, I call it an “accident”. I also mean that such events are possible by anyone, trained or not. We are all jacked in to the collective unconscious. It is possible that a message went through and had an effect on the physical plane, ie “cursed” someone. It is also possible that you created the event, such as via an unintentional thought form. But since you did not set out to do either of these things consciously, if the event was caused magically, the curse would be an accidental “success.”Hirandall wrote:And what do you mean by accident?
When I have mentioned not to worry about such “accidents” I mean, it is not a large concern because such “accidents” rarely repeat. A person’s every thought is not echoing outward randomly to create magical events. Imagination alone does not cause magic. If it were that easy I would will all my dirty dishes clean every day.
There is also the need for a “magical” state of mind and focus of will. Because there are a number of things needed to manifest magic in the physical plane, it is highly rare that all of these things will be present “accidentally” at the same time. Thus why I said not to stress about accidental repeats. Learn what you can from this event, then go on to the next event and new things to learn, then the next. It’s a process and thus takes time. In the meantime, no worries and chillin.
Does this help?
I’ve already said that the answer to that question would need to come from you.
