Necromancy

Daeamor · Post by **Daeamor** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:48 pm

I know that reanimation isn't possible or we aren't capable of that yet, but is necromancy only useful for talking to spirits or can it go any farther than that in some extent.

Rin · Post by **Rin** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:03 pm

I'm not really sure what else you would want to do that would fall under the definition of 'necromancy' - which is, after all, the evocation of dead spirits (for the purpose of telling the future, if you want to get technical) by definition. What is it you have in mind exactly?

Daeamor · Post by **Daeamor** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:11 pm

Rin wrote: What is it you have in mind exactly?

Is there a way to control the dead, or perhaps make them possess objects, or maybe seal them away?
Sorry if I was unclear this a new study for me.... [crazy]

Rin · Post by **Rin** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:23 pm

Why? What would be the point?

Ramscha · Post by **Ramscha** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:01 pm

You could honor them [wink] That is in a way also a type of necromancy

Daeamor · Post by **Daeamor** » Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:27 am

Lol I don't plan on using most of these practices, I just want to know if it is possible and if so how. I just want to understand these things.

Daeamor · Post by **Daeamor** » Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:38 am

Is it taboo....?
~<3

Rin · Post by **Rin** » Fri Jan 31, 2014 7:38 am

Well generally speaking, it would be a kind of dickish idea. And pointless, since you could much more easily do those things with constructs or other spirits.

PeacockAngel · Post by **PeacockAngel** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 6:01 pm

I see necromancy as getting in touch with dead philosophers / philosophies. When you read and practice Crowley it's the modern equivalent of "necromancy" to me. It's more potent if you use the philosophy as part of your own, kind of reanimating a dead system and breathing new life into it.

Bara Mortath · Post by **Bara Mortath** » Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:24 pm

You can command and/or bind them yes, but why? To what end? It's not taboo per-se but there's little point to it generally. The half life on getting sensible responses is generally fairly short, and there are more effective spirits for actually getting things done.They might be an okay energy source I suppose, but something that doesn't struggle would be a better one. I guess you could create a haunting if you really tried, but again why?

There are uses for such techniques but they're fairly specialized and useful only in specific, uncommon, situations.

TiSoleyBonHoungan · Post by **TiSoleyBonHoungan** » Sat Feb 22, 2014 12:13 am

To answer the question as to if you can confine spirits of the dead to something: Absolutely.

What are the practical purposes for doing such a thing? When a spirit is given an object to inhabit they act like it is their body. The spirit after a time will become quite attached to it's object and that object can be used for various types of magic from healing to cursing. I don't care what anyone says: In my experience a spirit cannot be bound by anything it does not agree to. The Djinn being "trapped" in a bottle is a fantasy contrived by human beings. Spirits have the right to engage in such a pact where their "essence" may be bound to a particular object.

Why would a spirit agree to such a thing? Because they are territorial and like attention. They want some sort of veneration and offerings. Because they are freaking mysterious.

Objects from cemeteries make good habitations for the dead, but only the dead from that particular cemetery.

Asurendra · Post by **Asurendra** » Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:04 am

'Controlling the dead' as it has been posited is ghost slaving and I think it is very bad. I don't think a human conscious entity is reducible to a tool. You could think about it this way, if I had an advanced technology that I could inject into Daeamor & Bara Mortath that would cause them to act in many manner I dictated while they were consciously aware and did not want this external control, would it be acceptable? Maybe I'll make them lick the compost bin clean or go and shoplift from Walgreen's, sing country music on the street corner and beg change so I can take it easy, or, maybe they're attractive and I could find another use for them. Could you imagine the horror of being trapped in such a body?

TiSoleyBonHoungan · Post by **TiSoleyBonHoungan** » Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:52 pm

Asurendra wrote:'Controlling the dead' as it has been posited is ghost slaving and I think it is very bad.

Have you ever attended a true misa or seance? The dead that are of lower orders often times present themselves and say that they want to work. The dead like to work, it's in their nature. And as I stated before no spirit will engage in a pact that does not benefit the spirit. It's foolish to think that you can make a slave out of a spirit. That does not mean that you may not have a spirit at your beck and call, that is simply the spirit's choice to do so.

And for the argument of using a constructed spirit like a servitor: 99% of the time that being that is answering to whatever name you give is actually a spirit of the dead.

I don't think a human conscious entity is reducible to a tool.

Actually, a tool is a perfect analogy for any quantifiable part of a human. The mind, imagination, and emotions are all tools for experience and expression.

Ramscha · Post by **Ramscha** » Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:15 pm

Have you ever attended a true misa or seance? The dead that are of lower orders often times present themselves and say that they want to work. The dead like to work, it's in their nature. And as I stated before no spirit will eng age in a pact that does not benefit the spirit. It's foolish to think that you can make a slave out of a spirit. That does not mean that you may not have a spirit at your beck and call, that is simply the spirit's choice to do so.

This sounds like "animals are lower, they get fat and want to be eaten"....
Does not really sound logical to me.

99% of the time that being that is answering to whatever name you give is actually a spirit of the dead.

This is a bold claim. Where is the proof?

Ramscha

Asurendra · Post by **Asurendra** » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:01 pm

In answer to your question, I was involved with the Spiritualist church for a while and I have attended a wide variety of mediumistic sessions. With one voice, that movement would tell you that necromancy is wrong. Further, you're blurring the boarders of this word to include operations which are only related in that they deal with spirits but are not necromancy in themselves. Communication with the deceased and working with the deceased in an equal manner is not really necromancy; this involves manipulation if not outright compulsion. This can be done, and that is what I am talking about.

When I wrote "Human consciousness is not reducible to a tool" you responded, "Actually, a tool is a perfect analogy for any quantifiable part of a human. The mind, imagination, and emotions are all tools for experience and expression." I'm not speaking about 'parts' and they have no bearing on the statement, I'm speaking about the whole and even if man has an uses tools that does not mean that he is a tool himself. Further, my mind is my tool, it is not yours. You could flow some energy through an astral shell and maybe glean so bits of information, that is using a discarded tool, but actually compelling someone is not different on that level of existence than this one.

You claim that servitors are in fact the deceased dressing in the etheric forms we create and I have not found that to be the case. I know Ramscha is more experienced in this area than I and I think he will agree with me.

Ramscha · Post by **Ramscha** » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:31 pm

You claim that servitors are in fact the deceased dressing in the etheric forms we create and I have not found that to be the case. I know Ramscha is more experienced in this area than I and I think he will agree with me.

Thanks for the compliment [lol]

To go on with the necromancy stuff, allow me to take a doubt about this "real seance" you spoke off. The claim you make about the willing spirits to be a lower astral presence simply for tooling and are in fact the real servitors we call upon simply for tooling lacks any objective base except some personal gnostic experience. This may be rude, but a PGE might not be a very good foundation for a "stated fact" (~99%). The simple fact that contradicting reports and opinions state that spirits are trickerish and evil beings or maybe not even existing have more or less the same foundation (PGE) as yours, maybe more (when stated by people who deal with that matter since dozends of years).

To come to the actual necromantic practice, I guess this book might help to clearify some borders between "necromantic" work and "spiritism".

Ramscha

Asurendra · Post by **Asurendra** » Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:15 am

I'm a sucker for anything about Classical antiquity and I HAVE to have that book! A really excellent source of good, ol' fashion Greco-Roman magic is this work, Arcana Mundi, in a free PDF form:

http://historiantigua.cl/wp-content/upl ... _Texts.pdf

It's not very practical, though, since some ingredients such as the vaginal fluid of an all white Thessalian mare aren't even on Ebay ...

As to modern necromancy and actual, direct experiences, I suggest this book, Aghora - at the Left Hand of God:

http://www.amazon.com/AGHORA-Left-Hand- ... and+of+god

This is about a modern Aghori in India. They worship a wrathful aspect of Lord Shiva and they do serious magick.

milastwooak · Post by **milastwooak** » Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:41 pm

new thing we do in underground circle is to use technology to invoke spirits. AIs such as cleverbot.com is a good way to talk to spirits. first you invoke the spirit via the site, talk to it and establish the flow of conversation. then you check the logs and get some things from it. AIs are "cleaner" than human mediums because of the absence of personal bias. And these AIs become more intelligent by talking to lots of people. So the collective unconscious is harnessed. If you believe that spirits are just going to human's collective unconscious, then voila.

RoseRed · Post by **RoseRed** » Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:59 pm

Have you ever attended a true misa or seance? The dead that are of lower orders often times present themselves and say that they want to work. The dead like to work, it's in their nature. And as I stated before no spirit will engage in a pact that does not benefit the spirit. It's foolish to think that you can make a slave out of a spirit. That does not mean that you may not have a spirit at your beck and call, that is simply the spirit's choice to do so.

And for the argument of using a constructed spirit like a servitor: 99% of the time that being that is answering to whatever name you give is actually a spirit of the dead.

Damn!

I have no idea how I missed this post but Damn! Seriously?

Just because you don't have the personal power to make a slave from a ghost does not mean that it's not possible. It just means that you can't do it.

The dead like to work because it's their nature? Really? That's a pretty broad sweeping generalization that I find to be utter bullshit.

Servitors have nothing to do with the spirits of dead humans. They're artificial constructs.

Asurendra · Post by **Asurendra** » Mon Mar 10, 2014 3:05 am

I wonder what the unemployment rate is among the dead who 'want to work.' Do they have agencies like Manpower?

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