Astral body Created or Pre-existing

[Zenick]

Just would like to know peoples thoughts on the subject.
My present model of the universe basically believes that it is pre-existing although many of the techniques lead to a question if it is actually created. This could be do to a mixing of different types of bodies and not just a focus on the astral but with so many systems using the same name for different things it is hard to weed out.
At present I divide the bodies into physical,etheric,astral,mental,and spiritual.

At the present moment I am leaning towards that it is created which is really inconvenient but I'm undecided on this.

[Asurendra]

I'm not sure what you mean by 'created' contra 'pre-existant.' You are really consciousness which operates through various 'bodies.' The vehicles came into existence during your gestation. But 'YOU' are not them: this includes your aura. They are tools.

[Zenick]

Yeah I guess I should have expanded on that.

The vehicles came into existence during your gestation

Would be an be an example of what I mean of pre-existant if I understand your meaning. As in a Kabbalist model and is created before the physical body theoretical.

Where created would be the need to consciously develop a astral body through spiritual practices or other techniques. As in Taoist tradition where the astral body does not exist until it's created.

[Asurendra]

Because they are so deeply enmeshed I think they manifest at the same time. Through energy work and practices you can enhance your etheric and astral bodies just as good nutrition and bodybuilding can enhance your physical body. These other bodies exist longer than the physical body due to their more subtle and energetic nature but they do decay and wither: this is the Second Death. But your consciousness remains.

Avoiding the Second Death means you maintain yourself on the Astral. [wink]

[Zenick]

I do understand the need to develop the other bodies for growth and that they are not me for a lack of better of a better way of putting it.
Wasn't really expecting a expansion on other body's just really was focusing on the astral other wise i would have add more.
I agree that it is very enmeshed together and that practically it doesn't really matter just trying to dot some I's in my understanding of things and get others options on the subject. From what you have posted my views are very similar to your own.

I very much appreciate your input.

How about the differences between the ethric and astral there is a strong connection between the two though different. do you relate the ethric more to the physical or astral or is it in it's own class? Yeah i know I'm trying to put things into a tight box but it's more for debate and discussion then actually what is.

[Asurendra]

Here is a bit of info about the Etheric Body from one vantage point:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etheric_body

[manonthepath]

Taoist traditions indicate that it is developed through meditation. My experience and intuition lead me to agree, but I just can't be 100% sure either. There are so many slippery variables.

[Rin]

Taoist traditions indicate that it is developed through meditation. My experience and intuition lead me to agree, but I just can't be 100% sure either. There are so many slippery variables.

I don't believe you're correct. The 'fetus' which is created and developed in certain Taoist systems of internal alchemy isn't the same as what is termed the 'astral body' in the West.

[manonthepath]

Taoist traditions indicate that it is developed through meditation. My experience and intuition lead me to agree, but I just can't be 100% sure either. There are so many slippery variables.

I don't believe you're correct. The 'fetus' which is created and developed in certain Taoist systems of internal alchemy isn't the same as what is termed the 'astral body' in the West.

Thanks. I stand corrected. My understanding of astral bodies from a western point of view is limited indeed.