I have questions about The Order Of Nine Angles

[Mindbender]

Ok, been looking into the O9A lately and I have to say it really appeals to me.

I like how it has actual physical and mental challenges you have to pass in order to grade up, unlike the watered down joke that is Laveyan Satanism where you just declare yourself a Satanist then do whatever you want.

However, I do see some potential issues with it.

To go from initiate to external adept you have to find a girlfriend and initiate her into the O9A. Now, this...seems really unrealistic. Women today just aren't into that kind of shit, they like to gossip and go shopping, not perform black magick rituals - how the fuck am I supposed to find a women genuinely interested in the occult?

Another major problem is to go from external adept to internal adept you need to... "cull" somebody. Now, that's a bit fucked up - killing someone and risking life in prison for the sake of character development? WTF? It doesn't even make sense from a logical standpoint - how can you advance any kind of agenda from behind bars?

If it wasn't for those 2 issues I'd be keen, but damn... the whole culling part is a real turn off.


What are your guys thoughts on the ONA?

[manofsands]

In general, I think you should stick with your gut with what is right or what makes sense and don't allow your will to be bent.

As far as you choice in flavor to start with... to each his own [devil]

[Asurendra]

Hello Mindbender,

First, the two most experienced occultists on this this Forum are women: Nahehmah & Rose Red. If Azkhet (who was also advanced) were still here they would make the “weird sisters” of Macbeth look tame.

Second, why do they want you to recruit into their order and maintain this person's involvement when they might not normally be interested? Perhaps they just want more people paying dues but the real reason is that they want individuals who are highly manipulative and controlling.

Third, the reason for this bar of murder, or willingness to murder perhaps, and a belief in eugenics to progress is that they want people who are devoid of empathy and conscience as they see themselves as naturally superior. Because of that, the rest of the human race is merely their cattle.

In conclusion, this is a recruiting ground for high functioning psychopaths if it has any existence at all. There are some who claim this is purely a hoax.

[Mindbender]

Yeah, I think I might just take the good ideas they have and discard all the crazy shit.


Some of their ideas are quite good - like the concept of insight roles.

An insight role is when you temporarily take on a lifestyle that is the opposite of what your personality leans toward, in order to learn and develop your character.

So if you are anti-authority you'd become a cop, if you were hedonistic you'd become buddhist, if you are introverted you'd take on a sales job, etc.


So they have good ideas like that, then they have batshit crazy ideas like culling and human sacrifice...

[Cybernetic_Jazz]

Mindbender, you really might just want to read David Shoemaker's 'Living Thelema' or check on his Youtube channel called 'Living Thelema' which is excerpts from the book. What you're describing of 'insight roles' is an A.'.A.'. exercise, or at minimum it is so within David's chapter.

[RoseRed]

I like your priorities. Finding the right girl is more important than spending spending the rest of your life in jail - unless you find the girl and do it and then get caught.

[Asurendra]

This idea of 'insight roles' may have value but I don't know how it would help you progress as an occultist. Time and focus would be better spent on energy work.

I agree with Rose Red. But, you could combine the insight role with jail and instead of finding a girl find someone else for love.

What is it that attracts you to Satanism & the Order of Nine Angles anyway?

[Desecrated]

Yeah, I think I might just take the good ideas they have and discard all the crazy shit.


Some of their ideas are quite good - like the concept of insight roles.

An insight role is when you temporarily take on a lifestyle that is the opposite of what your personality leans toward, in order to learn and develop your character.

So if you are anti-authority you'd become a cop, if you were hedonistic you'd become buddhist, if you are introverted you'd take on a sales job, etc.


So they have good ideas like that, then they have batshit crazy ideas like culling and human sacrifice...

You have something similar in libur null and chaosmagick.

[Mindbender]

I like your priorities. Finding the right girl is more important than spending spending the rest of your life in jail - unless you find the girl and do it and then get caught.

Why would you make such crazy assumptions about my priorities? Of course staying out of jail is more important than finding the right girlfriend - why would you think otherwise?

What is it that attracts you to Satanism & the Order of Nine Angles anyway?

I like the structure of it, the grade levels, proving yourself to be hardcore by under going intense physical and mental challenges. Laveyan Satanism is lame because it has no structure to it. Just basically says "Be selfish and hedonistic".

I like Satanism in general because I hate everything Christianity/Judaism/Islam/Buddhism/etc represent and Satanism is the opposite of those kind of religions.

Also, I really like the color black.

[manofsands]

What is it that attracts you to Satanism & the Order of Nine Angles anyway?

I like the structure of it, the grade levels, proving yourself to be hardcore by under going intense physical and mental challenges. Laveyan Satanism is lame because it has no structure to it.

Sounds like Marine Satanist!

Satan Fi ! AHoo!

[Asurendra]

Hello again Mindbender,

It seems to me that if you have an emotion investment, especially a strong one such as "hating everything" about Christianity & co. then you have a strong connection to them still. If you feel you have to go to the opposite of what this represents, then you are still allow this belief system to control your thinking because you hold it in such value (albeit a negative one) that it determines your reactions. Further, it seems that Satanism is predicated on the monotheistic faiths so you are still validating them. If Satan is real, then Jehovah is real and you just want to stick it to him. Even if you see this as symbolic, you are have a metaphysical umbilical cord to the Jehovah.

Why would you be against Islam? It doesn't hold an appeal? You get to dominate others and subjugate females. It sounds like a jihad could be the hardcore mental and physical challenge you want.

What is it you don't like about Buddhism?

BTW, I do not believe any of these so I have no emotional investments here.

[Mindbender]

Ok the reason I don't like those mainstream religions (buddhism included) is because they all encourage you to waste your life. Waste it serving others, waste it abstaining from the many enjoyments that life offers, waste it following arbitrary rules that do not benefit you.

It sounds like a jihad could be the hardcore mental and physical challenge you want.

What the hell? Now you're just messing with me. Why would you encourage me to be a terrorist when I already said I'm turned off by the idea of culling people!?

You seem to have this idea that I'm super-evil or something. I just want to become a strong and powerful individual. Shows how brainwashed you are that you think wanting to be strong and powerful automatically equates to being evil.

[Asurendra]

Hello again Mindbender,

For the purposes of this conversation I am trying to understand your position. If you self-identify as someone who wants to be the opposite of the hated Christianity (which considers itself 'good') then what would that make you (maybe 'evil')? It's legitimate, therefore, to try and understand what you really think since I don't believe that you are “super-evil” but locked in a paradigm that is not right for you and reacting in that context.

I do not think that to want to be powerful and strong is “evil.” Nor did I write anything that implied that idea. If you think about it deeply, the reason that people desire to be powerful is to remove the limitations which surround us in order to manifest what is within us. Whenever you explore any desire psychologically within yourself, you find beneath it that it is reducible to this axiom.