Skipping steps, making your own rules and magic,etc

[DarkSchneider]

I think I have a misunderstanding of some elements of Chaos Magick. It's been a good while since I've tried reading most of the books on the subject of Chaos Magick, but is it common to, when choosing a paradigm/magical spell/work/whatever, that you can modify and change the rules around as you see fit? Skipping some steps altogether if you feel like it?

For that matter, is it possible to "invent" your own spells, traditions, spirits and such?

[Asurendra]

It is possible to create a thought-form. But, how are you going to see it? How are you going to sustain it and give it the horsepower to do what you want it to do? Speaking of which, how are you going to program it?

Think about when you were in first grade and you started to learn to add and subtract. What if your teacher tried to teach you algebra at that time? There are steps to get to algebra from arithmetic. But, you have to learn them and practice them. I don't want you to feel it is too difficult or impossible, I want you to succeed. But, you have to work at it.

[manofsands]

I think it depends on your level of understanding of magick. You most certainly can 'wing it' and make up things on your own. But you have to understand magick at its root. And for anyone to think they do is a pretty big assumption.

If you want to make things up, or pick and choose (which is what chaos magick is, by my understanding) you can go one of two routes.

The 1st is probably the most recommended. Follow a preset path. A magickal order or practice that is already set in stone.. or paper, and learn from it. You will know when you get a grasp of the foundation and you can free form from there.

The 2nd is mainly just study. Study many different paths, try to understand the common core connection, and create your own from there. That is if you wish to free form at all. There is nothing saying sticking with a preset path is bad in the first place. I think the most common practice is to do so... and free forming happens on its own as you grow.

[Procel]

Bruce Lee threw the rules out the window and made his own martial art; after he had spent a long, long time working traditional Wing Chung.....

[Desecrated]

An experience magician can do it.
An inexperience can, but shouldn't.

Go to the gym. Listen to the teacher. learn how to lift properly.
Once you hit your personal goal, you can start to adjust the angles of your elbow, change the tempo, try different grips and so on.
But you need to build up the muscles to be able to handle heavier weights. You need to learn how to lift with your core as well as the muscle-group you are engaging.
When you are doing bench-presses you tighten the muscles in your stomach and hips as well. Shoulder blades in, Neck relaxed and then... breath.

Magic is the same.
You can read shit in a book and try it. But if your mental ability isn't strong enough to handle it, you won't get results you want or you'll get results you don't want.

So you need to do all the boring stuff first. Learn how to breath, learn how to use the core of your mind, body and spirit. Learn how to use energies and the elements.

Like the tarot cards.
You start as a fool, you evolve into a magician who can handle the elements, Then you get to the high priestess with her mystical symbols, and then you keep evolving.
So when you get to the death card, tower or devil, they are actually useful to you, because they are part of the journey you're on.

[RoseRed]

This post is written specifically to DS. No one has to agree with me. I will not argue my position. I have a child that is only a few years younger than you so this is from the Mom in me.

I do not think that Chaos Magick is right for YOU. You have a very special and significant set of circumstances in your life. I think that what you need most right now is Order - not Chaos. It's easy enough to get lost in Chaos while getting your feet wet and learning about it. This will not be a good thing for you.

I can see you forging ahead and losing yourself in it. You will not find the personal power you are looking for from outside of yourself. You may find threads that feel powerful and cling to them but they are only threads and cannot support the full weight of you. It will take years for you to climb out of the hole that you've dug for yourself if you continue in this vein. It will be hard. You will lose yourself. Have you ever gotten tumbled around in an ocean wave and not known which way is up? It'll feel like that at the end.

I do not ask to see these things. They come to me unbidden and I relay them as I see them.

You are an adult. You can and will make your own decisions. Please know that what is written above is written from a place of compassion and caring. You're embarking on a path that will harm you for no benefit. All I ask is that you please consider my words and warning.

[Asurendra]

What Rose Red and Procel have written is correct.

I would go further and say that I think Chaos Magic has harmed more people than it has helped. But that is the burden of those who created and put it forth into the world to bear and resolve as their own Karma. I understand many of the abstract points and some have a point, but so far as a public system goes it is not the most conducive to growth.

[Ramscha]

Rose, manofsands and all the others alreadynmade good points, my applaus for that [yay]

Let me add my experience as a guy who started with chaosmagick and stumbled then into a fixed paradigm where he remains for the time being:
To start with chaos magick means to jump into a lake without ground without knowing how to swim. you will quickly dive under the surface but then don't know in which direction becuase in a certain depth it is all blue, later dark and you won't know where to dive and where the safe shore is and finally you may even drown. You wouldn't be the first one and from my connections in the IOT I know more then enough people who ended up as a mental ruin down to road of drug to mother Hel.

I have followed your posts for quite a while. I may project now from my own perspective and experience but I completly agree with rose. From what you describe what you need right know is to get order, to get a hold and a safe point frm where you can operate. It is not an art to create chaos because chaos is already everywhere present. To create an ordered hold, a solid YOU, that should be your first priority and if I remember correctly, the good chaos magick books (like Fries stuff and also the psychonaut) recommend this as well.

Ramscha

[FlyingPhrixus]

I think I have a misunderstanding of some elements of Chaos Magick. It's been a good while since I've tried reading most of the books on the subject of Chaos Magick, but is it common to, when choosing a paradigm/magical spell/work/whatever, that you can modify and change the rules around as you see fit? Skipping some steps altogether if you feel like it?

For that matter, is it possible to "invent" your own spells, traditions, spirits and such?

the perspectives given thus far are good and have their uses and their place.

but i disagree.

everyone has different reactions to doing magick. you'll never know what will happen until you try it. in my experiences it is not only possible to create your own spells/rituals, but is preferable. it is good to understand the fundamentals of it, as has been explained in these previous posts, but for someone to say "chaos magick isn't for you" i find a little funny, even if i don't know you.

[RoseRed]

I get where you're coming from and as a general 'rule of thumb' I do agree. However, DS was here for a short time and we did get to know him and his circumstances a bit. This wasn't a thread about general advice.

[Solving Ennui]

I always say I had more magical accomplishment before I learned other folks rules, and frankly, if it's dogmatic, it isn't chaos magic, period.

[Haqim]

I think I have a misunderstanding of some elements of Chaos Magick. It's been a good while since I've tried reading most of the books on the subject of Chaos Magick, but is it common to, when choosing a paradigm/magical spell/work/whatever, that you can modify and change the rules around as you see fit? Skipping some steps altogether if you feel like it?

For that matter, is it possible to "invent" your own spells, traditions, spirits and such?

But of course!
That's the point of Chaos Magic, after all!

But I see your point - I'm also like to re-educate myself, reading my favourite CM books over and over.
Yet the best thing you can do is to leave the books and do what you want to do.

[cyberdemon]

Magick itself has no set of instructions - grimoires are guidelines of methods that worked better than others for certain people. Chaos magick should be a mix of your will, intent and imagination guiding you. If you beieve it works, it works!

[Haqim]

Magick itself has no set of instructions - grimoires are guidelines of methods that worked better than others for certain people. Chaos magick should be a mix of your will, intent and imagination guiding you. If you beieve it works, it works!

You're absolutely right!
Magic is creativity and freedom - without dogma.

Interesting: I've never used any grimoires.
I just don't need them.
Or, to be more precise: I've never felt the need to use one.

I'd rather create my own servitors, for example.

[cyberdemon]

You're absolutely right!
Magic is creativity and freedom - without dogma.

Interesting: I've never used any grimoires.
I just don't need them.
Or, to be more precise: I've never felt the need to use one.

I'd rather create my own servitors, for example.

This is the same for me, I only ever look at grimoires for reference to see what others have been up to. In my honest opinion, I find them to be outdated, and most new books are based off them thus making it regurgitation.. Yes we have the scaries on this side of science, but that doesn't mean one should be afraid to try all sorts of things.

[Haqim]

In my honest opinion, I find them to be outdated, and most new books are based off them thus making it regurgitation..

I just love those guys who stick with only one grimoire (a very "popular" one, obviously), and then telling people how awesome their demons are (plus everyone else who uses another grimoire / method is so wrong), but only UNTIL they become bored, changing their minds about the whole thing.
And then REPEAT the whole thing with another grimoire.

... which is all right, if you're a chaote.
But most of these annoying kids are not... XD