Materialising Theory

[Khazargo]

All right.

So this is a theory how would materialising stuff would work. Not summoning astral creatures, but actually touchable stuff.
Lets start by Einsteins theory that matter is actually slowed down energy(like REALLY slowed down). This is based upon a hypothesis that magick energy is actually phisical energy.
Now. Onto the thing. Since we have a lot of energy (lunar, yours, sun, plants, your choice), we now have to figure out how do we slow it dow into matter. That's where YOU come in. Give ideas, thoughts, or insights, whatever you think is appropriate.

Happy casting,
Khazargo

[EternalReturn]

http://www.universetoday.com/112044/phy ... to-matter/

In 1934, two physicists Gregory Breit and John Wheeler proposed that it should be possible to turn light into matter by smashing together only two photons, the fundamental particles of light, to create an electron and a positron. It was the simplest method of turning light into matter ever predicted, but it has never been observed in the laboratory.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... ality.html

By the rules of quantum mechanics, the photons on the wire inherit some of the properties of the artificial atom – in a sense linking them.

Normally photons do not interact with each other, but in this system the researchers are able to create new behaviour in which the photons begin to interact in some ways like particles.

'We have used this blending together of the photons and the atom to artificially devise strong interactions among the photons,' said Darius Sadri, a postdoctoral researcher and one of the authors.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... z3FV4BFThr
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Here's some inspiration, I would very much like to see this working.

What I can share with my limited knowledge, if we see energy as a vibration, only with slowing it down you can do such things. This could be similar process like Heisenberg's uncertanity principle or derivative.

If it can be seen as a vibration, it can be seen as a wave. So it must be isolated in one place, deprived of it's movement. Also, it could be related to how a sound is made.

Derivatives: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWVPyLr07w0
Sound: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsZKvLnf7wU
Heisenberg: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQKELOE9eY4


Good luck [thumbup]

[corvidus]

This thread of discussion is considered the most Universal Path in the Alchemical Sciences, the direct manifestation of Spiritus Mundi.

Maybe that's a good place to start

[Rin]

I'd look into the works of Bardon, he gives instructions which would allow one to piece together the technique for materialization. Just be prepared for a decade or two of training.

The works of the ancient Greek theurgists might be a good idea as well, as materialization was one of the feats they were most known for.

[Ramscha]

"Energy" in magickal sense like "lunar" energy or "life force" is not the same as energy in physical meaning related to the equations of Einstein, Newton or others.

Energy is described as the property of an object which is transferable between objects via different forms of physical interaction. This property is convertable but neither can it be directly destroyed nor created according to our current understanding of the basic laws of physics.

Ramscha

[Shinichi]

If you want to talk Einstein, just solve the equation for M.

E = MC^2

M = E/C^2

See what I did there? [yay]

As far as Magical Theory goes, it's just as simple. Nonphysical is condensed into Physical. You can say that vibrations are slowed down and all that, but most of the practical explanations I've seen suggest actually doing it is a matter of condensation, or concentration in the sense that you are starting with a nonphysical Idea (in the platonic sense of Archetypal Idea), giving it a metaphysical Form by shaping it into what you want to materialize on the astral/choose-your-label plane, and then condensing it to physical form.

Though, suffice to say, it's easier said than done. Theory always is. [wink]



~:Shin:~

[Rin]

As far as Magical Theory goes, it's just as simple. Nonphysical is condensed into Physical. You can say that vibrations are slowed down and all that, but most of the practical explanations I've seen suggest actually doing it is a matter of condensation,

I don't believe the two are contradictory - as you condense the energy, it's substance/fluid (for lack of a better word) is pressed into a smaller place, giving it less room to vibrate, slowing down the rate of vibration. Or on the flip side, lowering the vibrations of the energy (that is, slowing it down), causes it to contract as it starts to spread out over less room due to the lack of speed, condensing. Just the same process looked at from two different sides.

[lupenthewolf]

@ Ramscha: I don't think that magickal energies (Lunar, Solar, etc) are necessarily separate from physical energy. Magick can and does have an impact on physical reality, doesn't that imply that the two can at the very least interact?

According to Einstein's equations energy and matter are basically interchangeable, this gives some hope that the premise of creating a physical object out of energy is possible, if probably not practical. In my humble opinion, the theory would have few practical applications besides being an impressive accomplishment.

On a more helpful note: I agree with Rin in that slowing down energy and condensing energy would probably have much the same effect, but that's not where the real problem lies. Once you slow down energy enough to begin creating physical matter, how to you make it take on the shape you want? For that matter how do you make it take on the properties of the material you want? The practitioner will need to come up with a way to guide the energies into form as they condense/slow down into matter, otherwise it's not unlikely that you'd end up with a pile of magickally conjured dirt.

[corvidus]

Once you slow down energy enough to begin creating physical matter, how to you make it take on the shape you want? For that matter how do you make it take on the properties of the material you want? The practitioner will need to come up with a way to guide the energies into form as they condense/slow down into matter, otherwise it's not unlikely that you'd end up with a pile of magickally conjured dirt.

What's wrong with a pile of magickally conjured dirt? It's what all the Alchemists are into
Matter (animal, vegetable, mineral) is basically crystalline salts built up and held together with other substances, usually oily or fluid substances. Or the oily and fluid substances are held together with the salts. If you're talented enough to produce matter from nothing, it shouldn't be a problem to augment a tool with your magickally conjured dirt.

[lupenthewolf]

@ corvidus: Well, if you want dirt I think there are probably easier ways of getting it. My point was simply that the conjurer must be able to exert an extraordinarily fine amount of control for the energies to create what they intend. Finding a way to do that must be one of the major priorities for anyone wishing to learn this kind of magick.

[Rin]

On a more helpful note: I agree with Rin in that slowing down energy and condensing energy would probably have much the same effect, but that's not where the real problem lies. Once you slow down energy enough to begin creating physical matter, how to you make it take on the shape you want? For that matter how do you make it take on the properties of the material you want? The practitioner will need to come up with a way to guide the energies into form as they condense/slow down into matter, otherwise it's not unlikely that you'd end up with a pile of magickally conjured dirt.

You guide it through a trained mind. Start with the form on the mental level (that is, form it in your mind), this ripples down to the astral, where you can draw in and condense further energy into the '''shell'' (for lack of a better word) which echoed down from the mental plane, pump in enough energy and it will descend down into the vital plane, where it will begin to have an effect on physical reality), accumulate and condense more energy and it will become visible even to the untrained, and then keep going until eventually it materializes as a physical object. Not that I've done this myself (give me a few decades), but the theory seems sound, going off what I've read in Bardon and other sources.

[Khazargo]

Well in that case, see you in a few decades [wink]

[Horny Goat]

Khazargo, I don't know whether you want the ability to dematerialise objects and then rematerialise them in your vicinity, or whether you want the ability to create objects that did not previously exist and have them materialise. Either way, they are called apports and the history of the paranormal is full of such incidents. Poltergeists, of which there have been many, often produce such phenomena.

If you want to be able to do this then forget Einstien, forget science. Most scientists don't believe in the paranormal and their science doesn't allow for such things. The laws of physics and the principles of magick are not the same thing at all. All that science can offer you are beliefs, which if they help you to believe in and practice magick are very useful, but they can also be very limiting to a magickian.

If you want to produce apports then you are going to have to produce them with your mind.

There are a number of different ways of acquiring a magickal/psychical power. They are:-

1) through meditation.
2)through the use of drugs.
3)through the use of mantra.
4) through the use of magickal ritual.

With the first one, meditation? I cannot advise you on that as lacking experience.

With the second, drugs? I cannot recommend any drugs that enable the production of apports.

With the third one, mantra? We now know that mantras do not have to be ancient, authentic, and handed down by a guru. The work of the Chaos Magickians has shown that mantras can be self-created, and for any purpose. They are still very effective. The sigil mantra method is used for the 'ability to produce apports' goal.

The fourth one, ritual magick? If you desire an event, an ability, a power then work a ritual for it, whether it be long, lengthy and complex or short and simple. A single working of this ritual is all well and good if you are an adept, otherwise 10, 7 or 5 repetitions are necessary for success.

Referring back now to poltergeists: there are three theories:-

1) They are non-human spirits. As such, they have abilities that human beings, living or dead, do not possess.

2) Or, they are the spirits of departed human beings. As such, why should their minds be able to do something that the living human's mind cannot?

3) Or, they are not spirits but their phenomena is produced by the unconscious levels of mind of a living human being.

Poltergeists commonly produce apports and whether they are the spirits of dead people or the unconscious minds of the living, they show such phenomenon as being within human capability.

If you want the ability to produce apports then create a sigil and a mantra for such an ability. Work then for ten days running. You will then have the ability. It is as simple as that.

Please, just do it and do not allow anything to stop you. Report back with success.

I would have written a longer reply but I realised I couldn't write for shite. Ha ha.

[Rin]

Khazargo, I don't know whether you want the ability to dematerialise objects and then rematerialise them in your vicinity, or whether you want the ability to create objects that did not previously exist and have them materialise. Either way, they are called apports and the history of the paranormal is full of such incidents. Poltergeists, of which there have been many, often produce such phenomena.

If you want to be able to do this then forget Einstien, forget science. Most scientists don't believe in the paranormal and their science doesn't allow for such things. The laws of physics and the principles of magick are not the same thing at all. All that science can offer you are beliefs, which if they help you to believe in and practice magick are very useful, but they can also be very limiting to a magickian.

If you want to produce apports then you are going to have to produce them with your mind.

There are a number of different ways of acquiring a magickal/psychical power. They are:-

1) through meditation.
2)through the use of drugs.
3)through the use of mantra.
4) through the use of magickal ritual.

With the first one, meditation? I cannot advise you on that as lacking experience.

With the second, drugs? I cannot recommend any drugs that enable the production of apports.

With the third one, mantra? We now know that mantras do not have to be ancient, authentic, and handed down by a guru. The work of the Chaos Magickians has shown that mantras can be self-created, and for any purpose. They are still very effective. The sigil mantra method is used for the 'ability to produce apports' goal.

The fourth one, ritual magick? If you desire an event, an ability, a power then work a ritual for it, whether it be long, lengthy and complex or short and simple. A single working of this ritual is all well and good if you are an adept, otherwise 10, 7 or 5 repetitions are necessary for success.

Referring back now to poltergeists: there are three theories:-

1) They are non-human spirits. As such, they have abilities that human beings, living or dead, do not possess.

2) Or, they are the spirits of departed human beings. As such, why should their minds be able to do something that the living human's mind cannot?

3) Or, they are not spirits but their phenomena is produced by the unconscious levels of mind of a living human being.

Poltergeists commonly produce apports and whether they are the spirits of dead people or the unconscious minds of the living, they show such phenomenon as being within human capability.

If you want the ability to produce apports then create a sigil and a mantra for such an ability. Work then for ten days running. You will then have the ability. It is as simple as that.

Please, just do it and do not allow anything to stop you. Report back with success.

I would have written a longer reply but I realised I couldn't write for shite. Ha ha.

Could you give a historical account as an example? I've heard plenty of accounts of poltergeist phenomena involving the seemingly spontaneous movement of objects, but never of spontaneous materialization (either by itself or following dematerialization of the object in question) that didn't turn out to be fraudulent. I have, however, heard reliable accounts of materialization and dematerialization being performed as a Siddhi (that is, a power attained through spiritual advancement) by highly attained yogi's, as a magical act by highly developed magicians/sorcerers, or as a miracle (for lack of a better term). Unless you're referring to ectoplasm, but whether that counts as matter is debatable.

Materializing something even far enough down into the ether to make it visible to the untrained, let alone into material existence, is a feat that requires powerful concentration and considerable energetic control, neither of which are hallmarks of poltergeist phenomena, which tend to be random, sporadic and not overly powerful.

Likewise, sigils and rituals aren't going to give you the ability to materialize, not if you use them all day for the rest of your life. Only training your mind and developing your energetic body will, and even then you're looking at decades of training. It's one of the highest feats of practical magic that can be accomplished, short of resurrection.

[Horny Goat]

Rin, accounts of the production of apports by poltergeists are commonplace. There are so many it would be possible to fill a book with them as they are a key part of this well attested phenomena. If you consider them fraudulent then I just don't know what to say.

Example 1) A case known as The Black Monk of Pontefract from 1960's England.

A boy and his grandmother are in the lounge of the boy's home. A fine grey-white powder, like chalk dust, is falling all around, covering surfaces in a fine layer. They look up to the ceiling thinking that is the source. It is not. The top half of the room is perfectly clear of this powder. It starts to fall from below head height.

This is immediately followed by pools of water appearing on the kitchen floor with no visible cause. New pools appear as quickly as they can mop them up.

At a later stage in this case, the family had an egg come floating into the lounge from the kitchen. It was dropped on the floor. A second egg soon followed. The mother rushed to the refrigerator, got all the eggs out and put them in a wooden box. She then sat on the lid preventing the poltergeist from playing it's tricks.
An egg materialised mid air, before exploding. She looked inside the box. An egg was missing. She sat back down on the lid of the box. Another egg appeared, exploded, and when she looked in the box it was empty. The eggs were gone.

Example 2) The Case of Maria Jose Ferreria.

A pretty 11 year old girl living with the servants of the Jabuticabal family in Brazil. They were plagued by poltergeist phenomena. A neighbour, a Spiritist by religion called Joao Voloe offered to help this Catholic family. He decided the girl Maria was the focus.

A dozen eggs were placed in the egg rack in tide refrigerator. When the family's granddaughter went into the yard to feed the chickens, she found three eggs underneath one of them. But the bird was a cock. Looking in the refrigerator, three eggs had disappeared.

Maria moved in with Volpe. 312 stones, one weighing 3.7 kilos fell in the house.

Maria found that she only had to ask for something from the poltergeist/s and it would appear at get feet. A piece of candy; a flower; a brooch; any small object.

On another occasion the girl reached for a guava fruit from a tree but it was too high for her. She asked Mrs Volpe to reach for it. When she did, it simply vanished.

There were many more materialisations in this case which ends tragically with death of the girl, aged 13.

Example 3) The Cardiff Poltergeist aka Pete the Poltergeist.

This poltergeist resided in the corner of a workshop. If you tossed a stone to it, it would throw a different one back.

I shan't write this. I'll just provide a link.

http://www.british-paranormal.co.uk/the ... -services/

I have been unable to find the quite well known case of a poltergeist that aided in the repair of an old aircraft by materialising needed, and hard to acquire parts. It was on UK television years ago. I believe the host was Michael Aspell.

I have been unable to find the case of the poltergeist that materialised cannonballs. The recipient now has enough to fill a 'brass monkey', the name given to their holder.

There are simply so many cases of poltergeists producing apports that I won't try to list anymore.

Example 4) Alfred Russel Wallace, Charles Darwin's evolution co-theorist, investigates a medium.

The medium was Agnes Nichols, later Agnes Guppy. She could produce apports. When Walace asked for a sunflower, he got a six foot specimen with roots and earth still attached. One another occasion someone asked for flowers and received what looked like a shop full.
Her most incredible apport was herself. One one occasion she sat at her dining room table doing accounts and simply disappeared. Four miles away a small group of spiritualists holding a ace acne in a darkened room were surprised by an almighty crash and, striking a match, found Mrs Guppy lying on their table clutching an account book.

I will not offer you any accounts of H.P. Blavatsky producing apports as you may feel she is a fraud.

I will not offer accounts of apports connected to Uri Gellar as his powers are, to many, dubious.

Sai Baba's reputation is mud.

All three of the above can be looked up on the Internet.

I will not list the famous anecdote of Austin Osman Spare attempting a materialisation of roses and instead getting a shower of shit.

Time is running short and I've been writing for ages.

With regards to resurrecting the dead: there have been numerous cases of dead people reanimating their own bodies without need of magickians, but the technique of bringing one back to life is not so difficult at all so long as their corpse is not too damaged or rotted away.

[Rin]

Rin, accounts of the production of apports by poltergeists are commonplace. There are so many it would be possible to fill a book with them as they are a key part of this well attested phenomena. If you consider them fraudulent then I just don't know what to say.

Example 1) A case known as The Black Monk of Pontefract from 1960's England.

A boy and his grandmother are in the lounge of the boy's home. A fine grey-white powder, like chalk dust, is falling all around, covering surfaces in a fine layer. They look up to the ceiling thinking that is the source. It is not. The top half of the room is perfectly clear of this powder. It starts to fall from below head height.

This is immediately followed by pools of water appearing on the kitchen floor with no visible cause. New pools appear as quickly as they can mop them up.

At a later stage in this case, the family had an egg come floating into the lounge from the kitchen. It was dropped on the floor. A second egg soon followed. The mother rushed to the refrigerator, got all the eggs out and put them in a wooden box. She then sat on the lid preventing the poltergeist from playing it's tricks.
An egg materialised mid air, before exploding. She looked inside the box. An egg was missing. She sat back down on the lid of the box. Another egg appeared, exploded, and when she looked in the box it was empty. The eggs were gone.

Example 2) The Case of Maria Jose Ferreria.

A pretty 11 year old girl living with the servants of the Jabuticabal family in Brazil. They were plagued by poltergeist phenomena. A neighbour, a Spiritist by religion called Joao Voloe offered to help this Catholic family. He decided the girl Maria was the focus.

A dozen eggs were placed in the egg rack in tide refrigerator. When the family's granddaughter went into the yard to feed the chickens, she found three eggs underneath one of them. But the bird was a cock. Looking in the refrigerator, three eggs had disappeared.

Maria moved in with Volpe. 312 stones, one weighing 3.7 kilos fell in the house.

Maria found that she only had to ask for something from the poltergeist/s and it would appear at get feet. A piece of candy; a flower; a brooch; any small object.

On another occasion the girl reached for a guava fruit from a tree but it was too high for her. She asked Mrs Volpe to reach for it. When she did, it simply vanished.

There were many more materialisations in this case which ends tragically with death of the girl, aged 13.

Example 3) The Cardiff Poltergeist aka Pete the Poltergeist.

This poltergeist resided in the corner of a workshop. If you tossed a stone to it, it would throw a different one back.

I shan't write this. I'll just provide a link.

http://www.british-paranormal.co.uk/the ... -services/

I have been unable to find the quite well known case of a poltergeist that aided in the repair of an old aircraft by materialising needed, and hard to acquire parts. It was on UK television years ago. I believe the host was Michael Aspell.

I have been unable to find the case of the poltergeist that materialised cannonballs. The recipient now has enough to fill a 'brass monkey', the name given to their holder.

There are simply so many cases of poltergeists producing apports that I won't try to list anymore.

Example 4) Alfred Russel Wallace, Charles Darwin's evolution co-theorist, investigates a medium.

The medium was Agnes Nichols, later Agnes Guppy. She could produce apports. When Walace asked for a sunflower, he got a six foot specimen with roots and earth still attached. One another occasion someone asked for flowers and received what looked like a shop full.
Her most incredible apport was herself. One one occasion she sat at her dining room table doing accounts and simply disappeared. Four miles away a small group of spiritualists holding a ace acne in a darkened room were surprised by an almighty crash and, striking a match, found Mrs Guppy lying on their table clutching an account book.

I will not offer you any accounts of H.P. Blavatsky producing apports as you may feel she is a fraud.

I will not offer accounts of apports connected to Uri Gellar as his powers are, to many, dubious.

Sai Baba's reputation is mud.

All three of the above can be looked up on the Internet.

I will not list the famous anecdote of Austin Osman Spare attempting a materialisation of roses and instead getting a shower of shit.

Time is running short and I've been writing for ages.

With regards to resurrecting the dead: there have been numerous cases of dead people reanimating their own bodies without need of magickians, but the technique of bringing one back to life is not so difficult at all so long as their corpse is not too damaged or rotted away.

I don't consider them inherently fraudulent, I've just never heard of a case that turned out to not be so. But then this is hardly an area in which I've made an extensive study. I'll look into the accounts you listed, which is why I asked you for some in the first place - so I could investigate further.

As far as Blavatsky goes, I'm on the fence about her. Bearing in mind that there were a lot of people involved in the late 19th century Occult Revival that taught genuine teachings (or at least partially genuine, or a mix or genuine and otherwise) and yet still performed fraudulent acts - just because someone does something wrong, it doesn't automatically invalidate everything they've said and done, it just makes them human (although it does mean you should be wary of using them as sole sources, and be careful to clarify everything they say with other sources/practitioners or personal experience).

The Golden Dawn are a good example. I'm not a big fan of their system as a whole, but even though a lot of their sources (and so their worldviews and theories) were mushy and their claim to a direct Rosicrucian lineage is generally held to have been discredited, many of the individual techniques they (and members of their splinter groups, or individuals linked to them) taught were powerful ones. There's a reason the LBRP is the first thing recommended when someone needs cleansing and banishing, and the Middle Pillar ritual is one of the most reliable and powerful techniques for generating vital energy you'll find publicly available (almost too powerful in fact, for such public knowledge, which is why people should take Regardie seriously when he recommends at least 6 months of daily LBRP - twice daily if possible - before practicing it). But I'm getting off topic here.

I'll look into those accounts you mention, out of sheer curiosity if nothing else. If you can link some more direct sources, that would help greatly. If not I'll dig around myself.

[Horny Goat]

For details of poltergeists producing apports you're probably best going with written books rather than Internet sources, which tend to be less detailed. Any books specifically on poltergeists, ghosts in general, the paranormal i general and spiritualism. I think books tend to be better sources than the Internet.

[Rin]

For details of poltergeists producing apports you're probably best going with written books rather than Internet sources, which tend to be less detailed. Any books specifically on poltergeists, ghosts in general, the paranormal i general and spiritualism. I think books tend to be better sources than the Internet.

Can you suggest some specific titles? I'm operating on a limited budget atm, don't want to just blow cash on random books hoping they have the correct information.

[Horny Goat]

You know something, when it comes to specific titles I can't think of that many to recommend to someone on a limited budget. The two titles I do possess are Poltetgeists by Colin Wilson, which contains a chapter on the Black Monk of Pontefract, and The Flying Cow by Guy Llyon Playfair (somehow, I don't enjoy this book). He was a paranormal researcher based in Brazil, where poltergeists are often deliberately sent as a form of magickal attack. His book has a couple of chapters featuring polts. Otherwise, go to Amazon and type in poltergeists. I do not recommend any books as must buys for someone on a limited budget. See if you can find them or others free online.

I include a link to an article on AO Spare giving an account of his own attempt at producing an apport.

http://www.forteantimes.com/features/pr ... spare.html

[Rin]

When I say limited budget, I don't mean that I have a problem with dropping cash on a book I know has the information I'm curious about, I just don't want to waste money randomly buying books with no idea of the content or quality (which I did a lot of a few months back, thanks to Kindle :| ).