Irrational fear of hell

[DozingGreen]

Okay, so this is kind of embarassing to admit, especially in a place like this. I am not afraid of death in general but I do have an irrational fear of going to the christian hell. I do not know why this is. I was raised in an open minded catholic family and religion was never forced on me. I have read the bible 3 times front to back just for educational purposes but I don't believe most of it. I have had friends and aquaintences who are christian and I've also had a lot of christian enemies who have tried to get me to convert and told me that even if I am a good person the only why into heaven is to accept christ. Now I know this is all bullshit and there is no Christian heaven or hell,but The idea of it still sits in my subconcious and I find myself second guessing my lifestyle out of the fear that has been instilled in me from both my christian enemies and the christian influence on the media and society. Does anyone else go through this? I feel like it is an obstacle to my spiritual growth and my life in general.

[EternalReturn]

Well I did, i had that fear too but a long time ago. And to be honest it just kinda disappeared.

But if I were you I would use it as a Will training method. Visualize it vividly and let my mind run wild on what could happen and why, and try not to react to it.

Two thing can happen: I would develop my will, and second the fear would be surely gone as I would realize how absurd this idea is.


And I'll just leave this here:


"I think hell is something you carry around with you. Not somewhere you go." - Neil Gaiman.

Try to think about hell as a state of being, not horror movie.

[DozingGreen]

Thanks,that quote makes a lot of sense to me. Also philosophically I believe that whatever we believe and have faith in is what exists in our reality. I try to think of what legend says of the Frisian king Redbad when the Franks were about to convert him to Christianity and told him that his heathen brethren would not go to heaven with him "I'd rather be in hell with my kin than in heaven with my enemies"

Abrahamic monotheism baffles me in the sense that all 3 abrahamic religions are set in stone in their doctrine that "this is the only way". That in itself is illogical and to me is nothing more than fear mongering and an attempt to hold order and morality, yet somehow as illogical as I find it I still subconciously fall victim to it.

[EternalReturn]

Ah, tell me about it. I don't have anything against Christianity, but I hate this monopole on truth. It is concurring in every over defensive behaviour and it tries to project itself by the same means it has came to being in the first place - fear or guilt. I really hate the notion that such things exist.


Also I just remembered something, don't repress this fear. Let it run through you. I see that you like quotes so here's another one [crazy]

"I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain"


This is from Frank Herber's Dune. If you happen to be science fiction fan, or fantasy fan I warmly recommend his works [thumbup]

[Ramscha]

I guess ER has nailed it:

I will face my fear.

Ever worked with "hell" itself? What is hell for you anyway? Have you ever meditated about it, made a shamanic journey, worked with deities related to it?
That might probably be a way to overcome this fear of yours by simply working for some time with the things you are afraid of.

Ramscha

[Shinichi]

I can personally attest to the magical power of the Bene-Gesserit Litany Against Fear, quoted above.

Since you follow a teutonic path, then just remember the doctrine of reincarnation. And in that light, here are some words from a mystic I know: "all souls reincarnate. Heaven and hell are just the time spent in between." Even if you go to hell, you'll get out eventually. And even if you don't go to a christian hell, there's still Hel. You can't win for losing, can you? [grin2]

Besides that, one of the beautiful things about magic is that instead of sitting around arguing and philosophizing and debating over the nature of the other world, we can actually go there and see it for ourselves. I found the Christian hell to be rather cold ("heat and light are the domain of heaven, cold and dark that of death" as one put it), which greatly amuses me considering all the hype about heat and burning in that silly lake.

What Dreams May Come is a good story about heaven and hell, written by a Christian mystic.



~:Shin:~

[DozingGreen]

The two hell's in my mind are the christian hell which I have visited in dreams,and through delerium when I was going through hardcore physical alcohol withdrawal,and then there is the Heathen Hel which I have experienced in meditation and am not afraid of. In my experience the former is simmilar to the depiction of Hell by Dante Aligheri in the divine comedy.Maybe perhaps through my fascination with that book and reading it so many times I have manifested that depiction of Hell to be true in my reality.And then the latter which in my experience is just a very cold,dark,and gloomy place where people who didn't die an honorable death or in battle wait to be reborn. What scares me about the christian Hell even more so than the heat and feeling of being burned alive, is 1. The creatures there (I hate snakes), and 2. the eternal feeling of primal fear.

I would like to thank everyone for their responses. I thought that this thread would either be a dead one or that I would be laughed at for having such a fear as a pagan and an occultist.

[Shinichi]

In psychic and spiritual work, there's this thing that parapsychology has usefully named Analytical Overlay. This occurs when you have received information through psychic means, then analyze it and turn the information into something it is not. A common example is a Remote Viewer reading the contents of a box. He actually sees "yellow," but he is not satisfied with this -- he thinks, remembers "hey, bananas are yellow" and then tells everyone "there's a banana in the box!" Then they open the box and it's a yellow shirt.

If you Journey to Hell expecting to see Dante's Inferno, you will see Dante's Inferno, even if the person next to you is experiencing something completely different. Such is the nature of Journeying, and such is why intense mental discipline and training is a necessary prerequisite in most of the old traditions that teach it.

Hell is an interesting realm. It's a fairly big realm that isn't as simple as most people think, and it's also a fairly subjective realm. It's a place that does to you what it needs to in order to prepare you for your next incarnation. If that's Dante, it'll throw Dante at you. If it's being strapped to a dental chair and being forced to watch old reruns while getting your teeth pulled for a century, it'll throw that at you too. There's a certain objectiveness (in so far as any spiritual realm can be objective, where more than one person independently sees the same thing) to it if you're on the outside looking in, certain principles and rules about the place -- but when you're there, when you're on the roller coaster, things are very different and any fear or attachment or weakness that you have is fair game.

Helheim, too, is a fairly big world with lots of areas and halls. Hel herself is half corpse, half beautiful living woman -- and her world is split, too. Helheim is "the underworld," but it isn't all dark and cold.

And remember that reincarnation is a basic tenant of teutonic tradition. "All souls reincarnate. Heaven and Hell are just the time spent in between." So, I'm not really worried about either underworld. Maybe I'll die and go to Hades just for the Hell of it. [wink2]



~:Shin:~

[Ritual Ghoul]

Okay, so this is kind of embarassing to admit, especially in a place like this. I am not afraid of death in general but I do have an irrational fear of going to the christian hell. I do not know why this is. I was raised in an open minded catholic family and religion was never forced on me. I have read the bible 3 times front to back just for educational purposes but I don't believe most of it. I have had friends and aquaintences who are christian and I've also had a lot of christian enemies who have tried to get me to convert and told me that even if I am a good person the only why into heaven is to accept christ. Now I know this is all bullshit and there is no Christian heaven or hell,but The idea of it still sits in my subconcious and I find myself second guessing my lifestyle out of the fear that has been instilled in me from both my christian enemies and the christian influence on the media and society. Does anyone else go through this? I feel like it is an obstacle to my spiritual growth and my life in general.

Is it possible that hell is just a representation of a fear that your spiritual growth and life will not grow or become as fulfilling as you otherwise want it to be? I mean, if you feel like this fear is an obstacle to both of those things, is that a possibility? What if this fear is more so something that is psychological. In that case it may not actually be an irrational fear, but it may be a very realistic fear. Your subconscious could just be using that concept of hell as an attempt to get the point across to your conscious mind. Trust your senses, they might be guiding you in a reasonable direction.

[Eremita]

Donald Kraig writes about a technique in Modern Magick which he terms IOB - Identify, Objectify & Banish. You might find success in banishing this fear using his method?

[corvidus]

Hell is an interesting realm [. . .] It's a place that does to you what it needs to in order to prepare you for your next incarnation.

I agree.
If Heaven is aligned with the Sun, then Hell would be aligned with the Black Sun. The Black Sun is that corrupting influence that makes way for Spirit to manifest. This process is necessary to any spiritual involution and builds strength of character, especially when experiencing the 'little death' of the ego.

Your subconscious could just be using that concept of hell as an attempt to get the point across to your conscious mind.

Also agree.

@DozingGreen
If someone told me they had an irrational fear of death, I would say it's the subconscious trying to tell you that a Black Phase is coming, and to start preparing for a 'little death', however big it might be (energy cleansing, contemplation of the Self, etc.)
A good way to initiate the process, like others have been saying, is to start working towards a deeper understanding of 'Fear' and 'Hell'.

and I'd like to offer up a quote as well, from Carl Jung I believe:

"What is divine darkness?"

[RoseRed]

If someone told me they had an irrational fear of death, I would say it's the subconscious trying to tell you that a Black Phase is coming, and to start preparing for a 'little death', however big it might be (energy cleansing, contemplation of the Self, etc.)

I would've agreed with this several years ago. Today, I find it a little too generalized. Although, the following is extremely personal to those involved. Granted, most people aren't looking Death in the face but I have found that those who are very ill and are and have an irrational fear of death or hell don't have complete faith or trust in their deity.

Perhaps, it could be a bit of both.

[corvidus]

I would've agreed with this several years ago. Today, I find it a little too generalized. Although, the following is extremely personal to those involved. Granted, most people aren't looking Death in the face but I have found that those who are very ill and are and have an irrational fear of death or hell don't have complete faith or trust in their deity.

Perhaps, it could be a bit of both.

Maybe.
There's a very good book on the subject of 'Philosophic Death' by Stanton Marlan
titled The Black Sun: the Alchemy and Art of Darkness
I'm currently only half way through it, but I still highly recommend it for those interested

[manonthepath]

Okay, so this is kind of embarassing to admit, especially in a place like this. I am not afraid of death in general but I do have an irrational fear of going to the christian hell. I do not know why this is. I was raised in an open minded catholic family and religion was never forced on me. I have read the bible 3 times front to back just for educational purposes but I don't believe most of it. I have had friends and aquaintences who are christian and I've also had a lot of christian enemies who have tried to get me to convert and told me that even if I am a good person the only why into heaven is to accept christ. Now I know this is all bullshit and there is no Christian heaven or hell,but The idea of it still sits in my subconcious and I find myself second guessing my lifestyle out of the fear that has been instilled in me from both my christian enemies and the christian influence on the media and society. Does anyone else go through this? I feel like it is an obstacle to my spiritual growth and my life in general.

What you are basically telling me is that you are slave trying to free yourself. Childhood fears are for children. Time to grow up. It's as simple as that. Learn to control your mind instead of allowing someone else to do it. [tongue2]