Onmyodo Rituals

[Phantasm]

Well yet again I have no clue where to post this so I'm just going to put in this part of the forum for now. Does anyone know how I could get a English translated copy of all the ancient rituals Japanese Onmyouji used (if they even used any spells or rituals that far back)? I'm, yet again, looking for a specific ritual involving the Five Elements but I have no clue where to look for spells and rituals that involve a pentagram and the Five Elements.

[Shinichi]

99.9999% of all decent published work on classical Japanese magic is written in Japanese only. Worse, most of it is written in very old dialects of Japanese, which is almost like learning Japanese twice. And worse than all this, you'll have to be quite insightful to fully understand what is recorded.

There may be some English information floating around, but I would trust nothing that you didn't read in those original old texts (which are hard to get even if you can read them, most of the time) or didn't hear directly from the mouth of a living Onmyouji. Or maybe a deceased Onmyouji, if you're into Necromancy and good at it.

Is there any particular reason this has to be an Onmyoudo ritual? There are plenty of other schools with pentagram rituals. If you learn how ritual magic works, you can even construct your own ritual from scratch quite easily.



~:Shin:~

[Phantasm]

@Shinichi
The reason it has to be an Onmyodo is because the only area of magic that has vast expertise in the Five Elements that Onmyouji use is Onmyodo. I'm trying to figure out a very powerful and very ancient Onmyouji binding spell so I can also attempt to create a new necromantic like ritual in which I need vast knowledge and experience with Onmyouji type magic. Plus I really just like to collect spells from different points in history just in case I need an ancient spell or a newly made spell.

[Shinichi]

@Shinichi
The reason it has to be an Onmyodo is because the only area of magic that has vast expertise in the Five Elements that Onmyouji use is Onmyodo.

Actually, Onmyoudo inherited most of that knowledge from Daoist China. So, I suppose another suggestion might be to take a look at Daoist magic.

Or learn Japanese, and go to Japan to sort through several back rooms in several old libraries.



~:Shin:~

[Phantasm]

So if I wanted to learn Onmyouji magic then could I summon Abe no Seimei? or is his spirit way too old to be communicated with? and I'll take a look at Daoist Magic then to see if I can find some things on the Five Elements.

[Shinichi]

If you're a good enough Necromancer, time doesn't really matter. I could probably talk to Abe no Seimei if I wanted, but I'm not sure I want to summon a ghost of someone who was probably much stronger than me. There's a story about that in Norse magic, where someone summoned the spirit of an old practitioner, to learn the mysteries of the galdrbook ("spell book," like a rune grimoire) that the practitioner had written and left behind. The old spirit proceeded to kick his summoners ass. I wish I could remember the whole story, because it was a good one.

Spirits are not required to teach you anything. They can, but you usually either have to earn it or pay for it, and neither is easy.



~:Shin:~

[Ramscha]

The most important points where already made. It is often difficult for a westerner to get into old eastern traditions, especially if he does not understand the cultural and lingual background. Language itself is a powerful tool and via translating often some things, even if just minor things, get lost.

If you want to study onmyodo, you better consider a hike to japan, learning japanese and one or two decades of studying and searching. Even so, as I said, it is difficult for a westerner to enter such traditions, one will most likely just scratch the surface as a Gaijin.

Japan shares many tight bonds regarding culture with chinese mainland. Therefore, the roots of many things such as japanese scripture, early political systems or philosophical inputs are heavily connected to china.

A quick and rough insight might be given by this:
http://taoist-sorcery.blogspot.de/2013/ ... japan.html

(keep a critical eye, I wouldn't take all the stuff there for 100% but it is a pretty nice introduction for somebody who is completly new to this topic)

Ramscha

PS: Just collecting spells won't get you very far if you lack the basics necessary for related performance and understanding.

[Phantasm]

@Shinichi

Is there a way to bind the spirit of Abe no Seimei to myself to have him under my complete control? Or is that way too dangerous considering Abe no Seimei was supposed to be one of the most powerful Onmyouji that I know of.

@Ramscha

Do people in Japan still practice Onmyodo? I thought that the general practice of Onmyodo died out in Japan a while ago.

[Ramscha]

@Ramscha

Do people in Japan still practice Onmyodo? I thought that the general practice of Onmyodo died out in Japan a while ago.

You will have to ask a japanese I guess. As far as I have read it got assimilated into modern shinto and can still be found. Besides this, who knows what lies beneath the fassade of the one or the other society? I bet Chinas and Japans landscape of secret clubs and societies is as rich and colourful as it is in europe.
The thing about occultism is this: Its about the hidden (occultus). You will probably not find the vast knowlegde of generations lying before you in broad daylight.

As I said, we are outsiders, you will have to go there directly to get into it. It is often difficutl for strangers to enter an indigenous tradition (safe to say that this applies to other cases as well, not only for this). This is no task for an armchair philosopher or couchpotato. And don't think someone will serve you the knowledge on a silver tablet as you seem to expect....

Ramscha

PS: Your thoughts about to force some old dead dude from 1000 years ago to your biding tells very much about your approach. You know that japanese culture and believe is tightly connected to honoring the dead? Trying to enslave an old master from 1000 years ago (I suppose it will remain at the term "trying") does not sound very honorable...

[Phantasm]

@ Ramscha

I guess I'll have to go to japan then in order to learn more about Onmyodo and even though I did bring up binding a dead Japanese man to myself it was merely hypothetical. In the search for knowledge one has to consider all possibilities even if the possibilities aren't always honorable, that's the way i do things while searching for knowledge.

[Shinichi]

@Shinichi

Is there a way to bind the spirit of Abe no Seimei to myself to have him under my complete control? Or is that way too dangerous considering Abe no Seimei was supposed to be one of the most powerful Onmyouji that I know of.

There are three primary methods of evocation that I advocate, generally speaking. There are others, but these, broadly speaking, I consider most important and most practical depending on circumstance.

The first is the one that I consider best and most proper, but that may be a matter of my schooling. This involves first traveling the spiritual realms via Projection, meeting spirits in their own domain, and befriending them. This is a lot of work, but having done this, Evocation then becomes a simple matter of inviting a friend over to your house to sit down and have a conversation about this or that thing. When this is done properly, you do not need to bind anyone to your will, you do not need to make Evocation a battle of will's, and you do not need to bind anyone to you. There's you in the circle, the spirit in the triangle, and when things are done everyone parts and goes about their business. You could still be disrespectful and find yourself in a pickle, or some spirits may challenge and test you until you prove yourself mature, but I do not think evocation get's much safer and simpler than this.

The second is perhaps most commonly practiced in goetic traditions, and involves complex ritual arrangement to summon and bind a spirit, while simultaneously protecting you from it -- proper goetics never bind the spirit to you, because you are not making deals with the devil, you are just summoning and commanding them. This method is a battle of will and skill, and if you make even one mistake or prove to be much weaker than the spirit brought forth, you will find yourself at his mercy. As the traditions say, "never call forth anything that you cannot send back."

The third is one commonly practiced in very old spiritual traditions, and involves offerings and prayer. Essentially, you make a "sacrifice," ask the spirit to come forth, and if your "sacrifice" was sufficient the spirit will come forth and help you. Essentially, you pay the spirit to do something for you, and since it is of such a practice you are still at the mercy of the spirit.

So, there are many ways to summon Abe no Seimei. Some safer than others. If you want to do something the Shinto way (and Onmyoudou is simply a fusion of Shinto, Buddhist, and Daoist Magic), I'd go with the third method above. Build a shrine and make regular offerings -- burn some incense, kneel in seiza and pray, politely asking Seimei "please grant me insight and wisdom into the Onmyoudou Mysteries" (in Japanese, as a Kotodama, if you want to be particularly sincere) while working your ass off the rest of the time to actually learn the information he's supposed to give you insight to.

Summoning him and binding him may work, but that's a terribly gaijin thing to do. Even if you arrange the ritual right and he can't harm you, you may not be able to force him to give you the knowledge that you want.

Do people in Japan still practice Onmyodo? I thought that the general practice of Onmyodo died out in Japan a while ago.

As far as I know, there are a few scattered practitioners and masters of Onmyoudou floating around Japan. I don't know if they have any direct thousand year old lineage or anything, and I doubt many of them do. But, I don't consider it a dead craft. I learned a lot about word magic (Kotodama) and personal spirits (Shikigami) from Onmyoudou, but there's a lot of astrology, divination, and talismanic aspects to the art too. The Taiji and Wu Xing, you will find, are only a small part of Onmyoudou. Important indeed, but not the only thing.



~:Shin:~

[Phantasm]

@ Shinichi

Thanks for all the information. I'll definitely look into the third method of summoning Abe no Seimei since it seem the safest route considering he was a very reknowned Onmyouji when he was still alive.