Magick-Natural or Supernatural in Origin

[NLDSatanist666]

How do you think magick works? I understand that pretty much every occultist has a different view on this, but in general do you think that magick originates from a natural source (e.g. our bodies, the universe, etc.) or a supernatural source (gods/goddesses of magick, higher self. etc.). Or are you just agnostic about it and say something like "Where magick comes form is unknown and probably unknowable". Personally, I believe that the energy used for magick is naturally produced by our bodies based on emotion and thoughts.

Since this is on the beginner forum, I should probably state as a disclaimer that I have read Kybalion and am learning about Hermetics in general and understand their interpretation on where magick comes from and how it works.

Do you think magick could magick ever cease to exist? [shock2] Or could (XD) someone cast a spell to make it so magick didn't exist anymore! [lol] [lol] [lol] [lol]

[SerAlex]

I'm new to all this, but I always assume the energy is chaotically moving around through out the whole world. I don't believe magic originates from gods, although if gods exist (I'm "seeker agnostic" when it comes to religion) they might be able to be called upon to manipulate these energies on levels we probably couldn't since they've had much more time to be good at manipulating them than we have. It would be cool if our bodies produced these energies, but I don't believe that to be the case. I've never heard of any form of energy being created or destroyed, it's a law that it can't. The only influence we have, from what I understand, is our willpower and ability to think a spell through.

However, I'm new just like you are and I may be horribly wrong. (In fact, I should ask some questions later about magic as well. I've got a few high priority ones buzzing in my pink mass of noodles.)

[Ramscha]

I don't see why anything related to some "divine" entity/god/demon/flying spaghetti monster/whatever would exceed the boundaries of the "natural".
I mean, it is all a closed system after all where one factor influences the other, plainly spoken. Therefore, why would it be not natural just because it exceeds your understanding or awareness?

To make it simple, if something exists it is part of the same nature/cosmos you and I are existing in, isn't it?

Anyway, just my 2 cents on this topic

Ramscha

[EternalReturn]

Well as above so below tells me that magic is natural as it gets.

[Shinichi]

Both. There is magical power and knowledge hidden in the natural world around you, and there is also a "supernatural" or celestial magical power and knowledge that comes from what you might call "above."

You might want to study you some Agrippa, since he's partially responsible for the popularity of these terms and understanding his perspective is valuable. This sort of thing is also basic knowledge in Teutonic Tradition, where the magical crafts of Seidr deal largely with the natural world and is ruled by the Vanir (Earth) goddess, Freyja. Odin on the other hand, an Aesir (Sky) god, is chief master of Galdr (Incantation, the Runes).

The details of what natural and celestial magic really is in practice is a whole 'nother bag of worms, and to figure that out I suggest you do your homework and practice to experience it.



~:Shin:~

[magari]

Where does the supernatural come from if not the natural world?

I interpret planes of existence as something measurable by vibration or frequencies.

Magick permeates all these levels of existence and connects them as well for they cannot exist independently of each other.

I see the co-dependance of humanity and the gods. Gods being the archetypes humanity created to interact with the multiple planes of existence. Over time our collective consciousness has blown life into these archetypes and today they act like the sentient beings our collective memory has decided they should act like.

Once you peak past the veil of our own collective memory/consciousness you enter the void of all creation where you might witness the one all omniscient, omnipresent "being" who has been co-creating with us since the beginning of time. Any and all attempts to figure out the one results in you staring right back at yourself for it is ultimately your choice in how anything is perceived.

[Shinichi]

Those new to Seeing sometimes have the habit of seeing what they want to see, rather than looking directly at what is there -- and then beyond what is there. Becoming a good Seer, or even just developing decent Clairvoyance, takes a fair amount of practice and training. I've never fully bought into the modern psychological explanations of collective unconscious and human-created god-archetypes, as such, because it only partially explains what is actually there according to the vision of numerous Seers. The human race is very young as it is, modern society even more so. "The gods" and what they are have existed since before we came into this world and they will exist after we are gone.

The "natural" world is most easily described as The Web or Well of Wyrd in my preferred cosmology, or Maya from the Yoga traditions. The Celestial is everything beyond; everything outside the box, you might say.



~:Shin:~

[Rin]

It would be cool if our bodies produced these energies, but I don't believe that to be the case. I've never heard of any form of energy being created or destroyed, it's a law that it can't.

You're right, it can't be created or destroyed, but it can be taken in and accumulated, then generated again when necessary.

[Desecrated]

Everything starts with you. The rest is.... Stuff.

[the_spiral]

I tend to think the division between "natural" and "supernatural" is rather arbitrary and based more on our relative position in the world as humans (not to mention the assumptions underlying post-Enlightenment Western thought) than on any strict dualism existing in Reality.

So I suppose my answer to your question "Is magick natural or supernatural in origin?" is "Yes." [smile]

[Desecrated]

"Is magick natural or supernatural in origin?"
Yes.



That is a terrible correct answer actually. I want to change mine to that as well.