Hello! And a few questions regarding god magic and the bible

[azwraith]

Hi everyone. I have been dabbing in occultism through the late years, tho I never did any magic or rituals. I have many doubdts and fears, and I am sure they stop me from going fortward.
For instance, I was born and raised in a christian family. I spent almost all my life in the church, as a hardcore christian (not the ones that try to convert everyone, but those who belive that the bible and the gospel are the absolute truth of the world). I was a guitarrist of the youth band and was aways involved in almost every single project the church had.
As time passed, I began to question many, many things. In the last year, I finally managed to disconnect from the christian faith, tho I still respect Jesus as an awesome being, and I still have my doubdts regarding God (if he is absolutelly good, the one all mighty, etc).
The thing is, in the bible, there is a passage in the old testament that God forbids the use of maguc and sorcery. He also forbids necromancy, and other things. I don't really remember the passage, but for those who have read the bible, I am sure you have heard of this.
The problem with christianity is that they deprive you of ANY kind of spiritual or ocult knowledge. You cannot contact spirits of any sorts, or do any kind of magic. Nothing. So, we are left to live our lives completelly blind in this world.
I am very lost, and really need some answers.
Latelly I have been researching about theistic satanism and I am very attracted to it. Tho, I don't really like how they disrespect Jesus and even YHWH. That is not the way to go. I think we should respect all religions.
And not to mention that the thought of summonning demons for wisdowm, advices and power, are both very appealing to me and also very scary, since all my life I have heard of them as terrible, monstrously evil creatures.
Anyway, any advice will be welcome.
Thanks in advance

[Ramscha]

Welcome

[EternalReturn]

Welcome to the forum is that Morgoth on your avatar?

[Desecrated]

It sounds like you need atheism. And not occult.

[manonthepath]

Welcome tot he forum. Sounds like you're in a pickle. You seem to want to move on to explore your spirituality, but are not quite ready to let go of the christian faith. Look inside yourself and figure out your inner motivations and what it is your are afraid of that is blocking you. You are correct regarding christianity forbidding individual exploration of the arts outside of the church. Seems to me like tyou are at a crossroads in your life. There are three choices, stay a christian (which I hate even to say), Become a go for broke pagan, or practice one of the mixed christian/ pagan paths, but be advised, Magick is a sin!

[Frumens]

Helloooo. [yay]

[azwraith]

Yes Eternal Return, it is Morgoth/Melkor [smile] I love him
I don't really consider atheism and option, since I am really in love with the occult. I really want to have more knowledge of magic, and specially be able to do Astral Projections, to contact spirits, mentors, my higher self, etc...
So far, I do have many motivations regarding me following the ocult path, but many are very personal, hence why I didn't mention them here.
So, honestly, atheism is not an option for me.
Is there any other here who was a christian, and faced said difficulties when they began to delve in the occult?

[Ramscha]

Yes Eternal Return, it is Morgoth/Melkor [smile] I love him
I don't really consider atheism and option, since I am really in love with the occult. I really want to have more knowledge of magic, and specially be able to do Astral Projections, to contact spirits, mentors, my higher self, etc...
So far, I do have many motivations regarding me following the ocult path, but many are very personal, hence why I didn't mention them here.
So, honestly, atheism is not an option for me.
Is there any other here who was a christian, and faced said difficulties when they began to delve in the occult?

There is no obligatory requirement to practice occult arts and being theistic at the same time. I have enough colleagues who are either agnostics or atheists and it never was a problem, same goes for theistic approaches. It always depends what you make out of the things you have, that includes your own worldview.
But before you have a worldview, get to see said the world first [wink]

I was raised christian as well but I broke up for a couple of personal reasons. If you can work with the christian stuff, good for you, you can persue that. But don't forget to get some distance as well to broaden your picture. Don't let yourself get overwhelmed by the love and guild of a crucified dead man.

Ramscha

[grimmos]

it almost sounds like a prair lol you guys aren't really good at war are you g

[RoseRed]

Yes Eternal Return, it is Morgoth/Melkor [smile] I love him
I don't really consider atheism and option, since I am really in love with the occult. I really want to have more knowledge of magic, and specially be able to do Astral Projections, to contact spirits, mentors, my higher self, etc...
So far, I do have many motivations regarding me following the ocult path, but many are very personal, hence why I didn't mention them here.
So, honestly, atheism is not an option for me.
Is there any other here who was a christian, and faced said difficulties when they began to delve in the occult?

Yup. I was a Christian Witch for more years than I care to admit to. It's a journey of self exploration.

I personally, see a difference between natural, inherent psychic ability and witchcraft or even a lot of the occult. Pysionics is it's own field.

Do you have the ability to do the above things you listed or is this what's drawing your interest?

A lot of the Ceremonial Magick works around having a good relationship with God. That could be a decent place to start.

[azwraith]

Yes Eternal Return, it is Morgoth/Melkor [smile] I love him
I don't really consider atheism and option, since I am really in love with the occult. I really want to have more knowledge of magic, and specially be able to do Astral Projections, to contact spirits, mentors, my higher self, etc...
So far, I do have many motivations regarding me following the ocult path, but many are very personal, hence why I didn't mention them here.
So, honestly, atheism is not an option for me.
Is there any other here who was a christian, and faced said difficulties when they began to delve in the occult?

Yup. I was a Christian Witch for more years than I care to admit to. It's a journey of self exploration.

I personally, see a difference between natural, inherent psychic ability and witchcraft or even a lot of the occult. Pysionics is it's own field.

Do you have the ability to do the above things you listed or is this what's drawing your interest?

A lot of the Ceremonial Magick works around having a good relationship with God. That could be a decent place to start.

No, I can't yet. That is what is really drawing me to the occult. One of the things I want most in my life is to go to the Astral Planes.

And I don't consider myself a real christian anymore. I do respect Jesus Christ a lot, and I really try to follow his teachings about being good to others, having inner peace, etc. But I don't think that there is just one god (YHWH) who is absolutelly good, and that if we don't follow his orders and preachings, we will burn in hell forever. I am trying to demistify Satan and the demons right now. Some says that the demons are the old gods of the world, banished from christianity by the church. Others say Satan is equal to Prometheus and Enki, who just want to give mankind knowledge. But so far that is all I have gotten into.
I tried to study the Joy of Satan website, but they are really nazi.

[grimmos]

Yes Eternal Return, it is Morgoth/Melkor [smile] I love him
I don't really consider atheism and option, since I am really in love with the occult. I really want to have more knowledge of magic, and specially be able to do Astral Projections, to contact spirits, mentors, my higher self, etc...
So far, I do have many motivations regarding me following the ocult path, but many are very personal, hence why I didn't mention them here.
So, honestly, atheism is not an option for me.
Is there any other here who was a christian, and faced said difficulties when they began to delve in the occult?

Yup. I was a Christian Witch for more years than I care to admit to. It's a journey of self exploration.

I personally, see a difference between natural, inherent psychic ability and witchcraft or even a lot of the occult. Pysionics is it's own field.

Do you have the ability to do the above things you listed or is this what's drawing your interest?

A lot of the Ceremonial Magick works around having a good relationship with God. That could be a decent place to start.

No, I can't yet. That is what is really drawing me to the occult. One of the things I want most in my life is to go to the Astral Planes.

And I don't consider myself a real christian anymore. I do respect Jesus Christ a lot, and I really try to follow his teachings about being good to others, having inner peace, etc. But I don't think that there is just one god (YHWH) who is absolutelly good, and that if we don't follow his orders and preachings, we will burn in hell forever. I am trying to demistify Satan and the demons right now. Some says that the demons are the old gods of the world, banished from christianity by the church. Others say Satan is equal to Prometheus and Enki, who just want to give mankind knowledge. But so far that is all I have gotten into.
I tried to study the Joy of Satan website, but they are really nazi.

one of the things I want most in life is a form of justice of these ceramoies of taking away paychecks like in my life people are just cruel so I anilate the town every day for a whole month so as to honor my word in life at my debts and in hope to be more responsable

[the_spiral]

Yes Eternal Return, it is Morgoth/Melkor [smile] I love him
I don't really consider atheism and option, since I am really in love with the occult. I really want to have more knowledge of magic, and specially be able to do Astral Projections, to contact spirits, mentors, my higher self, etc...
So far, I do have many motivations regarding me following the ocult path, but many are very personal, hence why I didn't mention them here.
So, honestly, atheism is not an option for me.
Is there any other here who was a christian, and faced said difficulties when they began to delve in the occult?

You are not alone in your situation; many of the most dedicated occultists I know were raised in Christian fundamentalist environments. I think it comes from a combination of awakening children's spirituality at a young age and then putting so many restrictions on how they can express it, which also awakens a natural curiosity about "what's out there." But if you've been indoctrinated from birth to believe "what's out there" is nothing but malevolent cartoon demons and devils, your approach to the occult is infested with fear and this fear can KILL your effectiveness as a magician unless you put in the work to break free of it.

First, recognize the connection between the Christian mandate against occult practice and its bloody historical track record. As Christianity spread throughout the world, its emissaries had to cut people off—often violently—from their indigenous and ancestral traditions in order to facilitate mass conversions. What better way than to paint such traditions as "dark and evil" and Christianity as the "one true path"? This "white light" religion facilitated war, torture, colonial repression and slavery all over the world. Don't believe the hype.

Second, focus on developing yourself spiritually before worrying about demonic summoning and evocations. What would help you most right now? Develop a daily practice of meditation, prayer, connecting with your pre-Christian ancestors or whatever else you might need to slowly loosen the shackles of fear and the illusions of duality. You might also start looking at different paradigms where your religious background is an asset rather than a drawback. Chaos magick is non-denominational, non-theistic and you could even use your faith in Jesus as the basis of magical work. I work within the Hoodoo paradigm and many practitioners are Christians and use the Psalms and other Bible verses to work potent magic. Give yourself permission to experiment without internal fear and judgment, and do what you can to process and release these feelings when they do come up.

Just a few suggestions that have worked for me [smile] I wish you great blessings on your path.

[Cybernetic_Jazz]

My own sense of the answers to the bible in brief:

Ezra wrote the OT, or at least Ezra and some other people - too many things timestamp the Torah to Babylonian captivity. A lot of it was reverse-engineering history, saying a polytheistic people were monotheists demonstrating shirk and being punished for it, and you see people like Elijah, David, etc. doing all kinds of things that should have gotten them hammered by Yahweh if one needed to take Deuteronomy 18 literally. Seems like the end result is that it was evil or anti-canonical magic if it was a challenge to the Levitical priesthood.

That said I came to mysticism/magic/esotericism/occultism actually as my Christianity, as my way of serving God. The more you read and the more you go back and check the bible you find its still an incredible book and it's a piecemeal of ancient mystery beliefs in veiled language. At the same time yes - I felt like I'd be living with an ubearable choke collar on to live my faith by showing up at church an hour a week and attain my gnosis strictly with Football, Nascar, country music, and bashing whatever went over a 5th grade comprehension of the bible or of life in general. At least hear I ask "What are my options to make the world a better place?" or "What can I do to progressively become a better person?" and there's clear-cut roadmap, steps, etc.. I would have started this sooner if I'd realized what occultism actually was rather than what it gets lampooned as being.