LBRP Dagger

[a3m3th]

Has anyone come across any information about sigils, etc. to be used on the LBRP dagger in the GD tradition? I haven't found anything in Regardie, Wang, or Kraig. Is there anything counterproductive about using, for example, archangel sigils on a tool to be used for general purposes? It wouldn't make sense to me to use, say, only Raphael's sigil, as that's associated with air and its not exclusively an air tool, but would using all 4 archangel Sigil's just balance and keep it a neutral tool?
The lack of comment on this in the literature leads me to believe that it has generally been completely unadorned, but that doesn't feel right to me.

[Desecrated]

Are you thinking about these ?

[Desecrated]

These are the ones that Kraig uses

[Desecrated]

I—is the God Name associated with the tool.

II—is the name of the Archangel associated with the tool (notice that for the Dagger the name is Raphael, the Archangel associated with the magickal element Air.)

HI—the name of the angel associated with the tool.

IV—the name of the ruler of the element.

V—there are said to be four rivers coming out of paradise. V names the river associated with the element.

VI—is the name of the direction associated with the element and tool in Hebrew.

VII—is the name of the element in Hebrew.

VIII—is the motto.

[a3m3th]

Those are the sigils I'm talking about, but I was thinking of using the archangel sigils shown as item II. in Kraig for each tool on the LBRP dagger, so the archangel sigil shown for the air dagger, the archangel sigil shown for the wand, for the chalice, and for the pentacle, those four sigils on the LBRP dagger. Just as an example.

[Desecrated]

I don't think the archangel will mind that.

But, the idea is to have all of them working with you and not just one.

you know ""Before me Raphael; Behind me Gabriel; On my right hand Michael; On my left hand Auriel [Uriel]"

And then you have four angels, four tools, four directions, four elements, four suits in the tarot and so on. And everything in the universe fits into you-

[a3m3th]

So that's kind of the crux of my question, 4 archangels, 4 elements, 4 suits, 4 directions, 4 tools - except there are 5 tools since we have the air dagger and the LBRP dagger. I realize there are other tools, but I'm sticking to those 5 basic ones for this discussion. It's that LBRP dagger I haven't seen any details on, apart from it being black-handled. And what I'm thinking of doing is adding those 4 archangel sigils to the LBRP dagger, and/or adorning it as explained in the Lesser Key, something like that, but I want to avoid doing anything that might inhibit it from its intended purpose, which is not associated with any particular element/planetary power, etc.

[Desecrated]

So that's kind of the crux of my question, 4 archangels, 4 elements, 4 suits, 4 directions, 4 tools - except there are 5 tools since we have the air dagger and the LBRP dagger. I realize there are other tools, but I'm sticking to those 5 basic ones for this discussion. It's that LBRP dagger I haven't seen any details on, apart from it being black-handled. And what I'm thinking of doing is adding those 4 archangel sigils to the LBRP dagger, and/or adorning it as explained in the Lesser Key, something like that, but I want to avoid doing anything that might inhibit it from its intended purpose, which is not associated with any particular element/planetary power, etc.

Oooo, just leave the handle black.

I can give a longer explanation, but the simple answer is that a black handle knife is used for drawing circles.

[a3m3th]

Goat horn seems ideal, but I haven't found any that don't cost a fortune. Plus none I've seen are double-edged or spear-point-looking. I may have to settle for bull horn. I have a lifelong problem of being exrememly annoyingly picky, in case that's not obvious yet.

[hyperion5225]

i does not have no be two edged if its just a lbrp dagger, as far as i know it doesn't really need any special sigils or markings to work ether , may make you feel better, may even make it work better for a while. but you don't need it unless you are fully following GD / are a member.

as far as i know the whole black handled two edged dagger comes from the lesser key of solomon, and its main pourpose is to try and scare the demons into subbmission , and that is diffrent from the air dagger for the lbrp

could be wrong, ill admit im lacking in my ceremonial study's lately so feel free to correct me

[Desecrated]

Okay, we are going for the longer explanation then.

There are 3 different schools going on at the same time in this thread.

The key of solomon tools are used for the solomon rituals.
The Golden dawn tools are used for golden dawn rituals.
And then we have franz bardon.

So the key of Solomon tools first. This is the complete description given in the book of true black magic:
"the sword, the staff, the rod, the lancet, the arctrave, the bolline, the needle, the poniard, A WHITE HANDLE KNIFE AND ANOTHER KNIFE WITH A BLACK HANDLE USED TO DESCRIBE THE CIRCLE. "

This is how the black handle knife should be made:
"that with the black handle, destined to describe the circle and intimidate the spirits and for performing other similar things, must be made in every respect like the first, except as regards the day and hour, which should be those of saturn.

The steel should be extinguished in the blood of a cat and the juice of hemlock. While the handle should be of sheep's horn."

The white handle knife and the black handle knife are single blade knife. The stiletto and the four swords are double bladed.

So don't fucking ban me or report me or anything like that now, I'm just quoting out of a book. I'm not suggesting that anybody kills a cat or anything like that.

Then we have golden dawn.
"Golden Dawn people recommend having two different daggers for the two different banishing rituals. Bardonian tradition explains what to charge the tools with. One is charged with elemental power, and it is to be used with hexagram rituals. One is charged with astral (electromagnetic) fluid and is to be used in pentagram rituals."

So one plain knife for the pentagram ritual and one plain for the hexagram ritual, the only difference is how they are charged, but they can look the same, and they can be anything as long as it is a knife.
And of course the LBRP can be done with your fingers. you only need a knife if it helps you concentrate.

Then we have Franz
Franz basically took the "The knife with the white handle, the knife with the black handle, and the dagger." from the Solomon ritual and tried to incorporate it into the hermetic rituals. But they are not the same.
Just because both have several knife doesn't mean that they are the same knife.

Israel regardie mentions the 'dagger of penance' in the adeptus minor ritual, besides the elemental weapons. So he also used at least two different kind of daggers.

[Sypheara]

The three dagger solution Franz suggests sounds interesting. I post the following for not only advice, but also to shed my own opinions of what id use / require for the work.

It has always been my intention when I get around to making my full altar and tool set to accumulate 3 blades for the following usages based on the grimoires and my own tradition.

- A black handled athame for general use, drawing the circles etc, magical ritual in general. Would be blessed, dedicated and tempered in Hecates name using 7 plants that represent the 7 planets, alongside blood.

- A White handled athame for all uses when it comes to working with herbs and plant work, using a very similar construction method to that specified in the solomon rituals. This would focus on 'soothing' the fierce energies of the iron blade to ensure it doesnt damage the plants and herbs being worked with. This would also be used in any thing which works with healing, etc.

- Another Black handled athama, for malefica, commanding hostiles spirits, any particularly dark work that requires a commanding and offensive weapon. This would be again constructed very similarly to the, using at last hemlock, probably juices from other poisonous plants and blood.

The actual concoctions, plus sigils for each blade, is something ive been wracking my brains to think of. The originals only seem relevent for the white handled dagger, and like they do not fit the Shadow Work side of the other two, although they would work effectively they might cause dissonance.

Wondering what anyones opinion on this would be? I feel the solomonic grimoires are actually an excellent source for tool consecration, if you can work your way past the blinds. I do not have anything against animal sacrifice when done in proper context, but it seems excessive in this case. What kind of blood, how to acquire it and store the necessary amount is something that is going to demand alot of thought. Using my own is fine for the white and standard blade, but the malefica blade might be a different matter.

Thoughts?

[a3m3th]

I think what I'm down to at this point is trying to figure which, if either, of the Solomonic knives equates to the GD LBRP knife. Probably black-handled "for making the circle", while the artavus, aka penknife, would correspond with the GD air dagger (then again, maybe not), although GD ascribes different markings than the Lesser Key. Maybe they're irreconcilable and I should just take the lack of mention of markings on the LBRP dagger to mean it is to be left alone, as you've suggested. You have hit on my conflict, though and I should have stated it more clearly in the beginning - I'm trying to reconcile GD and Solomonic traditions.

[Desecrated]

I think what I'm down to at this point is trying to figure which, if either, of the Solomonic knives equates to the GD LBRP knife. Probably black-handled "for making the circle", while the artavus, aka penknife, would correspond with the GD air dagger (then again, maybe not), although GD ascribes different markings than the Lesser Key. Maybe they're irreconcilable and I should just take the lack of mention of markings on the LBRP dagger to mean it is to be left alone, as you've suggested. You have hit on my conflict, though and I should have stated it more clearly in the beginning - I'm trying to reconcile GD and Solomonic traditions.

Solomon and golden dawn are to different things.
Just like a wicca ashame and a witch knife is different ,although they look pretty much the same and is used for pretty much the same.

Build on GD alter and one solomon alter.