A skeptic's last resort

[MAZOHIR]

1st off, LUCIFER is not a Diety.

If you have gotton over your initial fear, I would suggest talking directly to the entity, and see if it can tell you exactly what it wants, how you might help it leave, or at least be more calm, and maybe evn help you with invisible things (like stolen articles, hidden treasures, etc...)

If you can't get over your fear, then I suggest contacting a Magician of some repute. Look online for the HOGD or OTO, and see if any Temples are close to you. If so, then contact them and see if one of the members will come over and do a banishing Ritual. Should do the trick.

NOTE: This thread has been split at this point and another thread begun concerning whether Lucifer is a deity. If you wish to discuss such a thing, please go to Is Lucifer a deity?

[Nesrail]

If you have gotton over your initial fear, I would suggest talking directly to the entity, and see if it can tell you exactly what it wants, how you might help it leave, or at least be more calm, and maybe evn help you with invisible things (like stolen articles, hidden treasures, etc...)

My girlfriend says no with capital N. She thinks its dangerous but I'm ready to do it if it helps.

If you can't get over your fear, then I suggest contacting a Magician of some repute. Look online for the HOGD or OTO, and see if any Temples are close to you. If so, then contact them and see if one of the members will come over and do a banishing Ritual. Should do the trick.

Just read a few things about the HOGD and OTO and there is a group in Denmark. I will try and contact them and see what they say.

[Nesrail]

Just a quick thought. Should I get an Ouija board?

[EternalReturn]

Just a quick thought. Should I get an Ouija board?

As I have heard, for your own sake no. It could make things even worse.

[Nesrail]

Just a quick thought. Should I get an Ouija board?

As I have heard, for your own sake no. It could make things even worse.

Alright. No ouija boards then.

[Clockwork Ghost]

This post has been reported for breaking Terms and Conditions rule 2.A: 'You may not post anything which is malicious, or designed to offend. Swear words and undue profanity are discouraged, and discrimination on grounds of race, gender, age, sexuality, body weight, religious beliefs, disability, or any other quality protected by UK equality laws, is forbidden and will result in an immediate ban, and deletion of your posts.' Claims relate to the following statement:

1st off, LUCIFER is not a Diety.

The report states that this is an attack on the Satanic paradigm. The staff have discussed this claim, and a formal ruling has been made. As the claim is linguistically accurate, and whether Lucifer even exists any more as a deity is theologically debatable, as is whether the story of Lucifer is simply just a historical reference to the King of Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar II, who conquered Jerusalem some time in the sixth century BCE, we have come to a conclusion: as MAZOHIR is very well versed in Jewish history, we assume he knows this.

The fact remains however that MAZOHIR didn't back up his comments with reference to the material above. Unlike Desecrated, when Desecrated did a similar thing in regards to life extension and immortality, MAZOHIR doesnt suggest any illegal activity, and therefore the formal staff ruling is that MAZOHIR has not broken Terms and Conditions, and no warning will be issued. MAZOHIR is asked to provide references when making such statements in the future however, especially when his comments lie within his own massive scope of Biblical knowledge. If any forum member wishes to discuss matters not directly related to the threads original question, please start a new thread.

Thank you [thumbup]

[Goði]

Sorry to bump an older post, but I'm curious to see how you are doing, Nesrail. I have some additional theories that might be useful, if your problem hasn't been helped yet.

Good luck to you.

~ Runar

[Nesrail]

Sorry to bump an older post, but I'm curious to see how you are doing, Nesrail. I have some additional theories that might be useful, if your problem hasn't been helped yet.

Good luck to you.

~ Runar

Its still there. We haven't contacted any professionals yet (my girlfriend wasn't comfortable with it). But its not so bad since I'm home everyday now. There are minor things, like a vase tipping over. I would love to hear your theories.

[cyberdemon]

Oh! Thank goodness, you're still around. This thread is from a month ago and I thought you might've left while reading it..

Alright.

1. Do not bring an ouija board into your house under any circumstances.
2. There is no correlation between the entity destroying things relating to you+girlfriend any more than anger at your presence, although there could be but then you would actually have made it worse by staying there so often.
3. Are there any religious symbols in the house anywhere, from any religion at all? If so, what?
4. You said your girlfriend's Wiccan, but how Wiccan is she? What are her ideas on all this happening?
5. Have you checked out the attic after the Flying Vase attack?
6. History of the house?
7. Does the house have any underground sections?
8. Ever communicated with the entity in any way? I don't mean ouija boards, I mean by even verbally shouting things like "show yourself!" or "who's there?" kind of communication. Did you actually leave any peace offerings?
9. Don't leave the house so easily. Be a boss about it, and be intimidating for the entity in a way that it feels powerless and that it can't harm you - and it won't.
10. Was this entity always there? If not, try to find out what may have triggered the beginning of the manifestation.

Perhaps get a 3rd person like a friend in the house if you check, adds to your safety when you do, but keep it to yourself and don't go telling them much..

There's good things that can come out of this! Never fear.

[Nesrail]

Oh! Thank goodness, you're still around. This thread is from a month ago and I thought you might've left while reading it..

No I'm still around. Its good to get some new insights.

1. Do not bring an ouija board into your house under any circumstances.

I thought about bringing one, but my girlfriend nearly killed me when I told her this.

2. There is no correlation between the entity destroying things relating to you+girlfriend any more than anger at your presence, although there could be but then you would actually have made it worse by staying there so often.

I don't understand this. Is my presence making things worse?

3. Are there any religious symbols in the house anywhere, from any religion at all? If so, what?

I have a bible from when I was a kid. My girlfriend was some stuff but I don't think its Wicca things. She has some orbs, minerals, crystals and a box with Earth, Wind, Fire and Water crystals. She did have, what I as a joke, called an alter. It was a table with a few wicca like stuff, a knife and some of the things I mentioned.

4. You said your girlfriend's Wiccan, but how Wiccan is she? What are her ideas on all this happening?

She was she is not total Wicca witch but she likes the idea of nature being in focus. She fully believes there is a spirit here. Not a demon or something like that but a spirit.

5. Have you checked out the attic after the Flying Vase attack?

We still here noises from up there but I haven't been in the attic and I don't intend to unless we need to get our stuff down and move out (what we are currently talking about)

6. History of the house?

No real history. There has been a couple, where the surrounding people, suspected the husband being abusive.

7. Does the house have any underground sections?

This question gave me chills. I work as a concreter so I build foundations for house and stuff like that. We were having some odd trouble with the floorboards and I ask the landlord about it. He told me its the foundation columns under the house that's acting weird. I knew it was bullshit since it really was bullshit. I didn't ask him to elaborate since he clearly had no clue at all. But I seen the sealed hatch where you can enter but no way in hell I will go down there.

8. Ever communicated with the entity in any way? I don't mean ouija boards, I mean by even verbally shouting things like "show yourself!" or "who's there?" kind of communication. Did you actually leave any peace offerings?

Not really. One day I was alone one weekend and I had a few beers (maybe one to many), and I turned off the lights and just ask the "spirit" or whatever to come and have a drink. Nothing really happened except our budgies freaked out and it was freezing cold. It sound like something happened but I really don't think so. My sister-in-law apparently feel stuff like this and she did it in a apartment where she felt something. Just asked it to join her. I met my girlfriend when she lived with her sister in the apartment and something was odd. I already wrote about this in http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... 60#p477478

9. Don't leave the house so easily. Be a boss about it, and be intimidating for the entity in a way that it feels powerless and that it can't harm you - and it won't.

I'm not easily scared and would fight anyone or anything to protect my girlfriend but she doesn't like it. Its hers idea to move. I told her not to give in the this thing and be a boss about it like you say. If moving makes my girlfriend safe, I will do it.

10. Was this entity always there? If not, try to find out what may have triggered the beginning of the manifestation.

I actually have no idea. We have a great relationship. Maybe it happened to someone else?

Perhaps get a 3rd person like a friend in the house if you check, adds to your safety when you do, but keep it to yourself and don't go telling them much..

We had my sister-in-law here one weekend and she said she didn't like it, like something was wrong but we never really talked about it, neither did she.

There's good things that can come out of this! Never fear.

I don´t fear this. It just angers me.

[cyberdemon]

Ahhh. There is just so much happening there with unknown explanations that I wish I could somehow be there in person and see it all with my own two eyes.

No, your presence seems so far to be acting as a protective measure against the entity. Don't worry about it. What I meant is that there are accounts where entities get "emotional attachments" towards humans and sometimes they cling and stay with the human, but so far this doesn't seem to actually be the case for you nor should it become so. There are many possibilities I can think of if I look at it from the entity's point of view, but nothing major.

Also seems that what materials you have in the house related to magick are non-provocative, so that's also good.

If you and your girlfriend are leaving, then please leave some sort of warning to the next tenant that they have a housemate!

Now the only possibilities I can think of are:
1. The entity is a remnant energy / spirit of the dead - unlikely because these tend to do more damage.
2. The entity is a poltergeist / demon species creature - living in the same space as you and perhaps okay with sharing this space since there is no major/direct attack on you or your girlfriend.

Sometimes, it is best not to provoke. In most cases of shared spaces, the other entity is not hostile and will only become so if you try to remove it.

[Goði]

Nesrail --

Glad you're still around -- I didn't expect a reply so soon! I do have some theories that I'm glad to share, but they're a little weaker with the information from your last post. Specifically, the cold-spots are throwing me off.

1) Do you (or your girlfriend) tend to lose a lot of small items? Put your keys on the table, turn around and they're gone?

2) What kinds of noises do you hear from the attic? Loud banging, or more of a tapping?

3) Do you tend to have bad luck in the house? Things are going great, but when you get home, your day goes bad on you?

4) Any strange smells? If so, are they good smells (flowers, perfume, etc.) or bad smells (rotten meat, feces, etc.)?

5) You mentioned birds -- how do they tend to act normally, and how do they act when something strange happens? Do they stay calm? Get excited? Are they excited in a good way ("Yay, food-time!"), or a bad way ("CAT!!! CAT!!!! RUN!!!")

I suspected before that it might be an unhappy house-wight, but I'll be honest and say I'm not 100% sure now. I don't know how many nursery rhymes you were told as a kid, but in Denmark they're sometimes called Kobolds or Nisse. They're spirits that live in a house, usually without anyone knowing they're even there, but if they don't like you (for absolutely any reason at all), they can cause trouble.

In pre-Christian times, land spirits (landvættir) of all kinds were venerated by Germanic and Scandinavian people, and the relationship a person had with their wights could drastically effect their lives for good or ill. In Germany, you get stories like "The Shoemaker and the Elves", but a similar pattern can be seen in a lot of family stories -- if you take care of your house-spirits, your house-spirits take care of you. They can be very temperamental, though; I suppose it's possible that this spirit could have been sleeping for a good long time, and your girlfriends' magick disturbed it. Maybe it doesn't like her particular brand of magick. Maybe it just doesn't enjoy her company as much as it enjoys yours. They're a lot like humans in their attitudes, some times. But, also like humans, they can be brought around and become good friends.

Others before me have suggested making a peace-offering. I would go one step further and offer it a bit of beer, a bit of food, and a dedicated corner in your house somewhere. Maybe in the attic, since it seems to like it there so much?

If you're dead-sure that this thing is no good, consider what others have said; that you might just have a negative spirit. These are also not unheard of in Scandinavian lore, but it has been my experience that a person can easily tell the difference between an angry house-spirit and a totally p*ssed off "other".

Either way, if you want to try to do real combat with this thing, there are a couple of simple things:

--- Iron: In Scandinavian lore, spirits (except Svartalfar and Ettin) hate iron. If you can get raw iron (like so-called "coffin-nails", or even just old-fashioned nails), and hammer them above the door frame (like over the bedroom door, etc.), that might help. Steel also works, but I find modern steel (especially modern steel nails) doesn't work nearly as well.

--- Rowan (Mountain-Ash) wood: This has long been known to drive away negative spirits. It is best to get some twigs with the berries still on them. Rowan is a small tree/large shrub that grows pretty well out there. The Danes were actually very fond of it, I'm told. Here is a picture of what it looks like: http://www.mountainwoodlands.org/userfi ... wan-12.jpg


That should help get you started, anyway. I hope this helps, and I really hope that you're just got an angry house-spirit -- it would be much easier to deal with, in my opinion. I'll echo Cyberdemon in that I wish I could see it with my own eyes. It would certainly help with figuring out what's going on.

~ Runar

PS: If you need something more powerful, I have some warding and banishing spells from some Icelandic texts that might help. I hope it doesn't come to that, though.

[cyberdemon]

Yes! I forgot, Goði is an expert on Nordic regional phenomena! House-spirits do seem to be a very likely explanation right now. Well, I did say that the entity seems to be sharing space.

[Nesrail]

2. The entity is a poltergeist / demon species creature - living in the same space as you and perhaps okay with sharing this space since there is no major/direct attack on you or your girlfriend.

Should I just live with it then?

[Nesrail]

1) Do you (or your girlfriend) tend to lose a lot of small items? Put your keys on the table, turn around and they're gone?

No not what I noticed. Somethings we both look for an item we were sure we just had, but I think its more forgetfulness that entity.

2) What kinds of noises do you hear from the attic? Loud banging, or more of a tapping?

Most of the times it sounds like running or walking. Sometimes violently and sometimes not so much.

3) Do you tend to have bad luck in the house? Things are going great, but when you get home, your day goes bad on you?

I may be pessimistic but yeah. I was about to start a big project on my computer and the computer crashed totally. That happens. But ALL electronics crashed that day. First my phone. Then the blu-ray, the wi-fi, her phone and lastly the laptop. It was weird for sure. Actually it was way to weird to be a coincident.

4) Any strange smells? If so, are they good smells (flowers, perfume, etc.) or bad smells (rotten meat, feces, etc.)?

Not what I noticed.

5) You mentioned birds -- how do they tend to act normally, and how do they act when something strange happens? Do they stay calm? Get excited? Are they excited in a good way ("Yay, food-time!"), or a bad way ("CAT!!! CAT!!!! RUN!!!")

Normally the birds is sitting in a cage in the window and at night we roll the curtains down so the cats outside wont jump in the window and scare them. It happens now and then when all light is out, that the birds freaks the fuck out, like there is a cat in the cage. A few times we check on them at they look startled and freaked out.

I suspected before that it might be an unhappy house-wight, but I'll be honest and say I'm not 100% sure now. I don't know how many nursery rhymes you were told as a kid, but in Denmark they're sometimes called Kobolds or Nisse. They're spirits that live in a house, usually without anyone knowing they're even there, but if they don't like you (for absolutely any reason at all), they can cause trouble.

I know about nisser. Nisser is most a christmas thing and a meant to tease you but still be positive. At least thats the happy version. Some christian priest say they are devils.

I suppose it's possible that this spirit could have been sleeping for a good long time, and your girlfriends' magick disturbed it. Maybe it doesn't like her particular brand of magick.

Should we throw out the Wicca stuff?

Others before me have suggested making a peace-offering. I would go one step further and offer it a bit of beer, a bit of food, and a dedicated corner in your house somewhere. Maybe in the attic, since it seems to like it there so much?

It sounds like a christmas think but I could but some food in the attic. How long should I be doing that?

If you're dead-sure that this thing is no good, consider what others have said; that you might just have a negative spirit. These are also not unheard of in Scandinavian lore, but it has been my experience that a person can easily tell the difference between an angry house-spirit and a totally p*ssed off "other".

So far it haven't been a happy positive spirit thats for sure.

--- Iron: In Scandinavian lore, spirits (except Svartalfar and Ettin) hate iron. If you can get raw iron (like so-called "coffin-nails", or even just old-fashioned nails), and hammer them above the door frame (like over the bedroom door, etc.), that might help. Steel also works, but I find modern steel (especially modern steel nails) doesn't work nearly as well.
--- Rowan (Mountain-Ash) wood: This has long been known to drive away negative spirits. It is best to get some twigs with the berries still on them. Rowan is a small tree/large shrub that grows pretty well out there. The Danes were actually very fond of it, I'm told.

I can easily get those things so I will keep them in my house if its needed.

PS: If you need something more powerful, I have some warding and banishing spells from some Icelandic texts that might help. I hope it doesn't come to that, though.

Sounds good. I will try these things first but I'm willing to try the spells.

[Nesrail]

Yes! I forgot, Goði is an expert on Nordic regional phenomena! House-spirits do seem to be a very likely explanation right now. Well, I did say that the entity seems to be sharing space.

All this is getting more and more weird. House-spirits? I'm still open-minded though.

[Goði]

House-spirit = Nisser in this case. (We all call them different things in different areas and traditions.)

I'm thinking more and more that this isn't a house-spirit/Nisser. With the cold spots, electronics failing, and those poor birds, this sounds more and more like a haunting. I hope others will comment more about this as well.

The Iron and Rowan should get you started. I wouldn't put anything in the attic as an offering at this point. If you have already, that's fine, don't worry about it. Otherwise I would skip that part.

I wouldn't ask you to throw out any of your girlfriend's Wiccan objects -- her religious beliefs are her own. I don't want you to think that this is her fault, either. Whatever is in your home has probably been there since before you both, and it would be unfair to blame her over a theory.

I'll try to get some of the spells I have into a picture so I can post them here easily if you need them.

Good luck

~ Runar

[cyberdemon]

Perhaps trapping it may be a good idea if you're going to try to provoke it, you'll need to finish the job.
Iron banishments will possibly make it very angry..

Random sidenote, from one of our members who has memories of her past lives, she claims that Loki is in the African regions right now..

[Nesrail]

House-spirit = Nisser in this case. (We all call them different things in different areas and traditions.)

I'm thinking more and more that this isn't a house-spirit/Nisser. With the cold spots, electronics failing, and those poor birds, this sounds more and more like a haunting. I hope others will comment more about this as well.

The Iron and Rowan should get you started. I wouldn't put anything in the attic as an offering at this point. If you have already, that's fine, don't worry about it. Otherwise I would skip that part.

I wouldn't ask you to throw out any of your girlfriend's Wiccan objects -- her religious beliefs are her own. I don't want you to think that this is her fault, either. Whatever is in your home has probably been there since before you both, and it would be unfair to blame her over a theory.

I'll try to get some of the spells I have into a picture so I can post them here easily if you need them.

Good luck

~ Runar

I was fearing it was a haunting. I have the Rowan and the iron in the house now. I don't know what to do with it though.

[Nesrail]

Perhaps trapping it may be a good idea if you're going to try to provoke it, you'll need to finish the job.
Iron banishments will possibly make it very angry..

Random sidenote, from one of our members who has memories of her past lives, she claims that Loki is in the African regions right now..

How do I trap it then? Should I get rid of the iron and the rowan again??

[cyberdemon]

Perhaps trapping it may be a good idea if you're going to try to provoke it, you'll need to finish the job.
Iron banishments will possibly make it very angry..

Random sidenote, from one of our members who has memories of her past lives, she claims that Loki is in the African regions right now..

How do I trap it then? Should I get rid of the iron and the rowan again??

No, don't.

Wait for it to do something that angers you and makes you feel unsafe. I'm not sure how Nordic demons and spirits work, so I don't know what god names you should be using, but in general, when it does something bad pick up the Iron and perform a Banishing ritual perhaps. Your incantations could be like "In the name of ____, I order you to leave in peace or be trapped forever in this metal."

[Sypheara]

Appeasing this malicious entity in any further, after its continuous disturbances, would not be advised.

You don't want to trap it, you need to get rid of it. This involves clearing down and cleaning all spaces where it could be hiding, including any attics or cellars where it could be retreating to.

Its quite complex work. One method you can use would be to basically seal up all but one exit/entrance with a salt/water wash, then go through each room at a time, starting with its most particular haunts, leaving an escape route for it to leave.

Each room should be cleaned through 1) incantation, make use of the rowan and iron nails. If you can get hold of some blackthorn wood that would also be of use here. its a very potent plant. 2) salt/water wash - you can enhance this with essential oils as well, which is placed on each wall, entrance, ceiling and floor 3) A powerful, strong incense with ingredients contained within it that have banishing properties. Sage is the standard often given but I find it is not always appropriate and or effective, in which case there are plenty others that are suitable for burning that will help cleanse and purify an area. For this work, id recommend you not use cheap stick incense but the proper deal.

This should be sufficient to get rid of the majority of harmful entities, and should be repeated across a full lunar cycle at just after new moon, full moon, and then at the subsequent new moon. If not, its something serious that will require someone on hand who is experienced ie not online to deal with it, as it may then require specific methods to the entity to remove it.

Without knowing what kind of entity it is, it is difficult to deal with. From the moving objects etc, it could be a poltergeist. A poltergeist is not a ghost despite its name.. it is more of an astral spirit. They are usually very hostile / very disruptive spirits, with very rare cases of them being benign / friendly. If it is indeed a poltergeist, it will be using either you or your girlfriend to generate the energy it needs to continue to manifest, as these things are parasitic / symbiotic(very rarely) in nature. As such, it is vital that no matter what, no blame or arguments arise from this - keep calm, and level headed as best as you are able to, because if it is the type that is feeding on your negative emotions, it will be attempting to seek a reaction from you. Poltergeist phenomena has a tendency to 'burn out', usually within a matter of weeks, very rarely months. Truly rare are the cases where the poltergeist is a permanent resident - they arn't 'stable' spirits - as such you might be reaching its burn out phase. The previous is just a best guess from the information you have provided thus far. If it is a poltergeist, traditional ghost laying techniques wont be effective as there is no human spirit to actually deal with.

Keep a diary of any and all unexplained activity that you can attribute to it, even writing it up afterwords. That way it will be much easier to identify what exactly this is, when its most active, etc. and will help us give us much more specific advice. It might also be useful talking through with your girlfriend about her practice. Ie what she has been doing, trying out in Wicca. This should be done in a understanding, casual manner - it might even bring you closer together learning about her practice. I'd do this away from the house and in no way mention its due to said angry spirit the reason you are bringing it up. It could explain why maybe she has been targeted (her gifts being destroyed etc, activity being worse when you are not present). Again realise this is not her fault - it is this entity that is the issue, no-one else.

I am sure people here will do their best to help you - but certainly dont treat it as a harmless entity. Its shown itself over time with its constant, and violent disturbance, to not want to play ball.

PS: I have house spirits, and they are nothing like this entity. They open a few doors occasionally (depressed lever handles and everything), blow a few lights out occasionally, and love to press annoying buttons on electronic devices, but they are quite genial. Can converse with them using buttons etc as signals, they cause no bother and there is no oppressive atmosphere. I recommend if you are going to leave any offerings, you leave it to the spirits of your household and not address it specifically to this awful entity thats invading your personal space and also by the sound of things, theirs. Giving anything to this particular entity could just further encourage abuse.

[Nesrail]

Sorry I haven't posted a reply in a while. I have been really swamped and I have been studying some occult stuff.

It has actually been quite quiet for a time now. No noise or anything. Maybe its because of the flowers and the metal rod. The flowers we have now are slowly dying and after they are dead we will throw them out and see if it had any effect on the entity. If it starts again we will keep the flowers in the house.

So far thanks for the good advises.

[cyberdemon]

Sorry I haven't posted a reply in a while. I have been really swamped and I have been studying some occult stuff.

It has actually been quite quiet for a time now. No noise or anything. Maybe its because of the flowers and the metal rod. The flowers we have now are slowly dying and after they are dead we will throw them out and see if it had any effect on the entity. If it starts again we will keep the flowers in the house.

So far thanks for the good advises.

Good to hear from you! Please do report back, the more documented records we have of what affects entities will always be of help for the future.

[Nesrail]

Hello people.
Whatever it is its still here. The flowers seemed to work but after they withered it got bad again.
My girlfriend was burn really bad in the shower, after the water was turned almost boiling water. We don't like it here anymore. We give up.
We will be moving out in August.

Thanks everybody for all the help you could give.