Atheist Occultists

[Draco20]

Universe is not a being therefore God is not the Universe. Plus Umiverse is not unlimited it is just expanding day by day. Those two are diffrent things.

Since you state this with such certainty, may I ask how do you know the Universe is not a single living organism?

This is a very interesting piece of documentary on this subject from which you can glean a different perspective:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoFlohEWUQQ

The seize of the Universe remains unknown and cannot really be demonstrated but it is believed by many scientists to be infinite. There are some reseearch in theoritical physics suggesting the Big Bang itself may not even be the 'beginning' of the cosmos but actually that of our 'pocket Universe'. Suggesting therefore that the Universe as a whole already existed prior to the Big Bang.

See: http://www.livescience.com/49958-theory ... -bang.html

[Atzmuth]

Then I ask you according to you can matter exist by itself? By its own matters?

[Stukov]

Btw, why does everyone seem to have issue with ones "ego"? What definition are you using that you seem so set against it?

[magari]

I have nothing against the ego.

Saved my life in the military.

Im talking about ego with heart.

[Draco20]

Then I ask you according to you can matter exist by itself? By its own matters?

I believe that the physical world is sustained by God's consciousness. As to the God-Universe causing Itself to exist, I don't know. But if we exist within God's body as conscious living beings as a result of an evolutionary process, than there is in fact a driving force within nature, a Cosmic Intelligence that is shaping the physical world and likely to be causing it's very existence. Yep, it really is all a mystery. [smile]

[goomegatherion666]

Btw, why does everyone seem to have issue with ones "ego"? What definition are you using that you seem so set against it?

The ego doesn't like other egos [lol]

[magari]

Btw, why does everyone seem to have issue with ones "ego"? What definition are you using that you seem so set against it?

The ego doesn't like other egos [lol]

Ego with heart knows better.

[Stukov]

So why do people seem to have an issue with it?

[magari]

I see it as an ego/heart balance where one or the other suffers depending on current state.

[Nahemah]

@Stukov: something to do with crack whores, bad daddies and societal failures/ abandonment issues.

Apparently.

[magari]

That usually results in an unbalanced person.

Nothing that can't be overcome though.

[magari]

Am I being insensitive?

Because thats likely.

[Nahemah]

I honestly can't tell.

You seem to be implying something regarding morality, then maybe something about ego death and power, but also crack whores are involved?

I do think the topic is skewed away laterally but not sure where that skew has landed or why...

[magari]

Maybe I didn't have a destination in mind?

Isn't it about the journey anyways?

[crazy] [clown]

[Nahemah]

Atzmuth wrote:
Its getting out of the topic...

If you say so

Yes, we do say so. And...

Isn't it about the journey anyways?

No. It's not.

This topic is about whether Atheists can be Occultists / Occultists can be Atheists.

Start a thread on the philosophy of existence and it's proposed purposes, if you want to opine about life journeys. [thumbup]

And back to the subject, I hope...

Why is everything boiled down to one source anyway?

Seems there is a lot of monism going on in the Occult world, even among the multi-deitied paths and paradigms, particularly when the origins of the universe are discussed, even at the most impersonal of levels and It always boils down to a oneness or a singularity, in the end.

I don't do dualism either, for that matter.

Black/ White or other such false dichotomies, where is the rest of everything for goodness or badness sakes? [crazy] [greensmile]

[magari]

Have you ever seen one? And do you think Occultists must believe in a deity or a source of power?

The common definition of atheist is the disbelief in a God or Gods.

Seemed to me like we decided pretty quickly that this is entirely possible.

Then the question became where does an atheist occultist's power come from if not a God or Gods?

I attempted to provide a perspective that might result in an answer. The reality is I don't know the answer.

Ever read Socrates? Or should I say Plato?

Is that not where this discussion left off? Where is the source of power if it doesn't come from God or Gods?

[Nahemah]

Then the question became where does an atheist occultist's power come from if not a God or Gods?

I disagree on your interpretation.

And do you think Occultists must believe in a deity or a source of power?

The question was about belief or disbelief in deities then on other sources of power. That's how I'm reading it.

Believing in a source of power does not require a belief in or acceptance of deities, per se, but I think it the question also references whether belief in an external power source, rather than from within or through the magickian personally, is a necessary factor, if there is no underlying belief in godhead.

Atzmuth?

[Nahemah]

Ever read Socrates? Or should I say Plato?

Yes.

And much more too. Why?

Spare me the analogies please. [lol]

Is that not where this discussion left off? Where is the source of power if it doesn't come from God or Gods?

I think it's where it went, but it shouldn't have, really. The questions were about belief in sources of power, not origins hypotheses.

[magari]

Ever read Socrates? Or should I say Plato?

Yes.

And much more too. Why?

Spare me the analogies please. [lol]

The discussion(journey) seemed far more valuable than the point(destination) in my opinion. "The Republic" began with the topic "What is Justice?" and ended with a proposition of the perfect society. Were the two related? Sure... Did the discussion go off topic? Perhaps....

What was the point? I don't know.

But I'll drop it. In my opinion this "Topic" was a great opportunity for a really valuable discussion.

Yeah.... I'm disappointed.

Such is life.

[Nahemah]

In my opinion this "Topic" was a great opportunity for a really valuable discussion.

I think It still is, if we keep it on track.

Energy, the principles and forms it takes, how that is perceived, utilised, transferred [ ...and so on] and how we work with this, is far more relevant to the subject, than historical ideas of philosophy of mind, much though I do love to ruminate over those too.

I am alive in the here and now and I am dynamic, as is everything around me, thus I can work magickally without necessitating a belief in divinity and I do not require to disprove other peoples ideas or beliefs in how they achieve their own outcomes, for me to be able to validate my own ideas.

This world is alive with possibilities.

That's the root of it for me and It's a bit of a shame that many other folk feel threatened by this fact: that Atheists can play in the magickal arena too.

And...

Start a thread on the philosophy of existence and it's proposed purposes, if you want to opine about life journeys. [thumbup]

Why not do this, for whichever areas this digressed into that interest you still. It was a valid suggestion.

[magari]

So I don't believe in God or Gods.

However I use the term God sometimes instead of Universe to refer to an experience/observation. However I wouldnt say its one or the other, or either.

I see it as something that came before me and allowed for my existence. I attribute everything outside of my control/perception to this pattern/thing.

It has no beginning or end.

Am I an atheist ?

[Nahemah]

Yeh, I think so, in a lazy, uncommited sort of way, which is a lot like me, actually. [thumbup]

I am not trying to convert anyone, but I know some Atheists are a bit 'dickish', shall we say?

Similarly so for some of the faithful too. [greensmile]

Takes all sorts and every belief set or disbelief set, for that matter, or indeed Agnosis and the rest of the doubtful spectrum, has its own nuances and variety to it, so we're not all in the either or camp and I think that is a good thing too. [grin]

[McCurdy]

I'm an atheist occultist, and a skeptical occultist at that.

[Nahemah]

I'm often sceptical to attributions, but quite open minded otherwise.

Certainty scares me. [eek]

And homeostasis terrifies the shite out of me. [wink]

[magari]

I would say that there is no God or Gods...

But I would also say there is a source from which we are created.

Experiencing the source brings me to the word "Cycle" or "Pulse". It feels like a living, breathing thing, but its infinitely beyond our ability to label or explain it.

This experience is what most religious people attach to. I would say I've experienced what most consider "God", but its obviously not what most people think of as God.

So I would say a proper occultist is both an Atheist and an Agnostic.

For me its impossible to say I'm one or the other. Both are correct. Both are necessary.

I imagine a flower petal arguing with a root over who's perspective of the universe is correct. Both are right.... Both are wrong.