Send a being to haunt someone and the people with them?

[Liberator]

Do you know if there is a spell to send a certain entities/entity to haunt someone and where they live? I'm looking for a type of entity which deals with retribution such as a poltergeist, feeds on fear and delivers punishment on someone according to how they have treated others. I want it to be something which both terrifies and gives treatment according to their deeds in life.

Best having them show up to wake them or cause activity between 1-3 am in order to terrorise them whether its things like trashing their homes, damaging their possessions, pulling their blankets off, showing up in their face or doing it to them in their dreams, etc. I'm just wondering if it possible to do such a thing as I may have some very evil or malicious people in my life currently, thanks.

I have the names and photos of some of them. They've been causing me trouble for awhile and I've had enough of them being allowed to walk freely with no consequence at all.

I just want to know if its possible to send such an entity of/similar to what I described or a poltergeist to haunt them? Just any, as long as it will be effective.

[Rin]

Just any, as long as it will be effective.

It will never be effective because they will never associate the phenomenon they're experiencing with their treatment of you. All it will do is make them more angry/scared/miserable, which will lead them to lashing out further at the people around them.

"Darkness cannot be dissipated with more darkness. More darkness will make darkness thicker. Only light can dissipate darkness. Violence and hatred cannot be removed with violence and hatred." - Thich Nhat Hanh

[Desecrated]

I may have some very evil or malicious people in my life currently.

Get rid of them then.

[Sypheara]

@Rin

Sometimes though, using a scalpel to cut out a cancerous tumour is necessary.

In this case i don't see any issue with using appropriate malefica.

The question is, what is appropriate, which I covered in the other thread and would love to hear others opinions.

@Descrated

To be fair to Liberator, he has PMed me and simply 'getting rid' of them seems quite difficult, they are even actively trying to find out his address.

If he is being accurate with information portrayed, it would be impossible to remove them from his life by conventional means.

The police are also in my country useless for things like this and cannot be relied on, before anyone suggests that.

[Rin]

Sometimes though, using a scalpel to cut out a cancerous tumour is necessary.

In this case i don't see any issue with using appropriate malefica.

The question is, what is appropriate, which I covered in the other thread and would love to hear others opinions.

The analogy doesn't work very well, since tormenting someone with a spirit at night is unlikely to result in them suddenly being excised from your life.

[Sypheara]

I agree to a point, which is why other forms of malefica were instead suggested. The poltergeist would be using a pneumatic hammer to crack a nut to get the desired result.

The analogy was simply to illustrate why 'darkness not exercising darkness' being ineffective as an absolute is a false and dualistic way of looking at things. Reality asks that sometimes we do indeed fight fire with fire.

The only way such a spirit would get them out of liberators life is by sending them into a state where they can think of nothing else but the poltergeist, ie driving them obsessively mad with depression.

Or said spirit killing them, or draining them completely into a husk of their former selves, which seems a bit drastic.

[Rin]

I agree to a point, which is why other forms of malefica were instead suggested. The poltergeist would be using a pneumatic hammer to crack a nut to get the desired result.

The analogy was simply to illustrate why 'darkness not exercising darkness' being ineffective as an absolute is a false and dualistic way of looking at things. Reality asks that sometimes we do indeed fight fire with fire.

The only way such a spirit would get them out of liberators life is by sending them into a state where they can think of nothing else but the poltergeist, ie driving them obsessively mad with depression.

Or said spirit killing them, or draining them completely into a husk of their former selves, which seems a bit drastic.

I think you misunderstood the quote. Or possibly I did. My point in quoting it wasn't that what should be passive in all things and huddle into a ball when being mistreated, but that that such actions as are required to rectify the situation should come out of a desire to bring about the best result for everyone involved, anything more is pure revenge, which is counterproductive. Adding further negativity to a negative situation will generally only compound it - even if aggressive action must be taken, it should come from a place of desire for the greater good for all involved, not from a desire for causing further pain and suffering.

Take for example the case of a martial artist being mugged on the street - should he defend himself and his property? Of course, if the risk of personal harm or material loss is serious. But once he has done so, he should disengage, not beat the attackers to death in retaliation, understanding that they are likely desperate or unwell in some way to be running around mugging people in the first place.

[Sypheara]

I agree to a point, which is why other forms of malefica were instead suggested. The poltergeist would be using a pneumatic hammer to crack a nut to get the desired result.

The analogy was simply to illustrate why 'darkness not exercising darkness' being ineffective as an absolute is a false and dualistic way of looking at things. Reality asks that sometimes we do indeed fight fire with fire.

The only way such a spirit would get them out of liberators life is by sending them into a state where they can think of nothing else but the poltergeist, ie driving them obsessively mad with depression.

Or said spirit killing them, or draining them completely into a husk of their former selves, which seems a bit drastic.

I think you misunderstood the quote. Or possibly I did. My point in quoting it wasn't that what should be passive in all things and huddle into a ball when being mistreated, but that that such actions as are required to rectify the situation should come out of a desire to bring about the best result for everyone involved, anything more is pure revenge, which is counterproductive. Adding further negativity to a negative situation will generally only compound it - even if aggressive action must be taken, it should come from a place of desire for the greater good for all involved, not from a desire for causing further pain and suffering.

Take for example the case of a martial artist being mugged on the street - should he defend himself and his property? Of course, if the risk of personal harm or material loss is serious. But once he has done so, he should disengage, not beat the attackers to death in retaliation, understanding that they are likely desperate or unwell in some way to be running around mugging people in the first place.

I don't think I misunderstood if that is what it was meant to relate. What im also trying to relate is that in a minority of cases, it is not possible for a best result for both sides.

When this occurs, the overriding factor is keeping oneself safe. If that means a bad outcome for the other person, then so be it. That is different than revenge - OP is asking how to keep these people away to keep himself alive and safe, not simply to make them suffer.

I can relate to your example as I am a martial artist, and it does hold sway. Rather than go into deep philosophy its probably better i just use that example to state my view on this. My martial art is a sword art - if someone tried to mug or attack me in the street, i would not hesistate in using the weapon I had on me to keep myself free from injury, even if that means cutting the attacker down. This is also important because if I don't do this, i could be morally responsible for them taking that weapon off me and using it on another innocent.

By acting aggressively and unprovoked towards me, the attacker has put me in danger of harm, even death. A punch can easily kill. The natural law that results from that is that I am able to protect myself in the manner which puts the least danger to myself, even if that course of action is almost sure to be fatal for the attacker. By engaging in the hostile act, he is agreed to play that game knowingly or unknowingly.

Using that force to nullify the threat is therefore not revenge - its only revenge if it becomes malicious. The above is a 'what needs to be done'. No pleasure is taken in the act nor is it carried out past the absolute.

[Rin]

I don't think I misunderstood if that is what it was meant to relate. What im also trying to relate is that in a minority of cases, it is not possible for a best result for both sides.

A minority sure, but there's no reason to believe this is one of them. And even if it is, the specific tactic suggested would be useless.

When this occurs, the overriding factor is keeping oneself safe. If that means a bad outcome for the other person, then so be it. That is different than revenge - OP is asking how to keep these people away to keep himself alive and safe, not simply to make them suffer.

Actually that's exactly what he's asking - sending a spirit to torment someone at night isn't going to do anything to stop them acting negatively towards him during the day. The person isn't going to draw a connection between their nighttime experiences and their behavior towards the individual. Even if the individual points it out, the person in question is most likely to either disbelieve them or simply escalate their behavior (which was never specified - so we have no idea what is being done or why) in an attempt to make the individual stop.

I can relate to your example as I am a martial artist, and it does hold sway. Rather than go into deep philosophy its probably better i just use that example to state my view on this. My martial art is a sword art - if someone tried to mug or attack me in the street, i would not hesistate in using the weapon I had on me to keep myself free from injury, even if that means cutting the attacker down. This is also important because if I don't do this, i could be morally responsible for them taking that weapon off me and using it on another innocent.

By acting aggressively and unprovoked towards me, the attacker has put me in danger of harm, even death. A punch can easily kill. The natural law that results from that is that I am able to protect myself in the manner which puts the least danger to myself, even if that course of action is almost sure to be fatal for the attacker. By engaging in the hostile act, he is agreed to play that game knowingly or unknowingly.

Using that force to nullify the threat is therefore not revenge - its only revenge if it becomes malicious. The above is a 'what needs to be done'. No pleasure is taken in the act nor is it carried out past the absolute.

That's kind of a faulty analogy. Firstly, I doubt you wander the streets carrying a sword. Secondly, magic is not a sword and cannot be taken from an individual. Thirdly, unlike a sword strike (or a punch), there is no direct connection in the victim's mind between the suffering they undergo due to magical attack and their behavior towards whoever it is getting revenge on them. Therefore we aren't talking about self defense, we're talking about pure revenge - causing someone to suffer simply because they make you suffer. It achieves nothing except the expenditure of energy on the part of the practitioner and the creation of more suffering in the universe.

In fact, I have a hard time thinking of a situation in which causing harm through magic is justified. If it's a truly serious case (severe child abuse, domestic violence, or similar situations) then direct, physical action is called for. Involve the authorities. If that fails, step up and do what needs to be done yourself.

Even if that is somehow not possible, then with anything short of completely destroying someone's physical or mental health, working negative magic on the offender isn't going to stop them from continuing their behavior. It's just extraneous suffering - we could argue as to whether the individual deserves it or not, but being able to work magic does not make one the arbiter of universal justice. Causing harm which doesn't create positive change to balance out the harm caused is just revenge, or plain cruelty. Far better to use magic to protect and heal the victim and unravel the situation in which they are exposed to their tormentor.

To go to the extreme example of the abused child - you can inflict all manner of suffering on the abuser, but unless it goes far enough that they are no longer able to abuse the child through physical disability or through being separated from the child (say, institutionalized), then you have achieved nothing for the child, created yet more suffering in the world and expended a whole bunch of your own energy (as well as attaching yourself in a negative manner to an already negative situation). Even if you are capable of this, and have after careful consideration come to the conclusion that it is the solution which will cause the best outcome, it should be done out of a sense of love for the child, not out of a desire for revenge on the abuser.

Just because you can make something happen, doesn't mean you should. And the attitude is as important as the action.

[Sypheara]

I don't think I misunderstood if that is what it was meant to relate. What im also trying to relate is that in a minority of cases, it is not possible for a best result for both sides.

A minority sure, but there's no reason to believe this is one of them. And even if it is, the specific tactic suggested would be useless.

When this occurs, the overriding factor is keeping oneself safe. If that means a bad outcome for the other person, then so be it. That is different than revenge - OP is asking how to keep these people away to keep himself alive and safe, not simply to make them suffer.

Actually that's exactly what he's asking - sending a spirit to torment someone at night isn't going to do anything to stop them acting negatively towards him during the day. The person isn't going to draw a connection between their nighttime experiences and their behavior towards the individual. Even if the individual points it out, the person in question is most likely to either disbelieve them or simply escalate their behavior (which was never specified - so we have no idea what is being done or why) in an attempt to make the individual stop.

I can relate to your example as I am a martial artist, and it does hold sway. Rather than go into deep philosophy its probably better i just use that example to state my view on this. My martial art is a sword art - if someone tried to mug or attack me in the street, i would not hesistate in using the weapon I had on me to keep myself free from injury, even if that means cutting the attacker down. This is also important because if I don't do this, i could be morally responsible for them taking that weapon off me and using it on another innocent.

By acting aggressively and unprovoked towards me, the attacker has put me in danger of harm, even death. A punch can easily kill. The natural law that results from that is that I am able to protect myself in the manner which puts the least danger to myself, even if that course of action is almost sure to be fatal for the attacker. By engaging in the hostile act, he is agreed to play that game knowingly or unknowingly.

Using that force to nullify the threat is therefore not revenge - its only revenge if it becomes malicious. The above is a 'what needs to be done'. No pleasure is taken in the act nor is it carried out past the absolute.

That's kind of a faulty analogy. Firstly, I doubt you wander the streets carrying a sword. Secondly, magic is not a sword and cannot be taken from an individual. Thirdly, unlike a sword strike (or a punch), there is no direct connection in the victim's mind between the suffering they undergo due to magical attack and their behavior towards whoever it is getting revenge on them. Therefore we aren't talking about self defense, we're talking about pure revenge - causing someone to suffer simply because they make you suffer. It achieves nothing except the expenditure of energy on the part of the practitioner and the creation of more suffering in the universe.

In fact, I have a hard time thinking of a situation in which causing harm through magic is justified. If it's a truly serious case (severe child abuse, domestic violence, or similar situations) then direct, physical action is called for. Involve the authorities. If that fails, step up and do what needs to be done yourself.

Even if that is somehow not possible, then with anything short of completely destroying someone's physical or mental health, working negative magic on the offender isn't going to stop them from continuing their behavior. It's just extraneous suffering - we could argue as to whether the individual deserves it or not, but being able to work magic does not make one the arbiter of universal justice. Causing harm which doesn't create positive change to balance out the harm caused is just revenge, or plain cruelty. Far better to use magic to protect and heal the victim and unravel the situation in which they are exposed to their tormentor.

To go to the extreme example of the abused child - you can inflict all manner of suffering on the abuser, but unless it goes far enough that they are no longer able to abuse the child through physical disability or through being separated from the child (say, institutionalized), then you have achieved nothing for the child, created yet more suffering in the world and expended a whole bunch of your own energy (as well as attaching yourself in a negative manner to an already negative situation). Even if you are capable of this, and have after careful consideration come to the conclusion that it is the solution which will cause the best outcome, it should be done out of a sense of love for the child, not out of a desire for revenge on the abuser.

Just because you can make something happen, doesn't mean you should. And the attitude is as important as the action.

To get the fun out the way first, i do wander the streets carrying a sword. Its legal for me to do so, whenever i am going training, and since these days i train at least four times a week, thats four days i am carrying a weapon around, either to work or somewhere else, before i then have to set out to training. So its not an entirely unrealistic scenario.

I agree that in this case the analogy doesnt really hold entirely. It was more trying to explain how i see it when these people are literally a threat to his life. In this case, since the authorities are quite useless, it is not unfair to say he should deal with it magically. I agree in that his suggested course of action, is not the best way of keeping them away from him as mentioned in his duplicate thread, which i dont know if you have read? If not ill happily link it.

In it I suggested a binding spell, to keep them away and out of his life. He is is no obligation to heal them, simply to defend himself. There are plenty of magickal operations he can run to keep them the fuck out of his life without having to resort to a poltergeist or other such harming entity. Some people cannot be healed - their base nature is one of a sociopath, either caused by mental defect or a corruption down to the level of the soul or both. Im not saying necessarily these people are but my indications and pms to me i can see why this might be the case. These type of people only understand pain ad force - they are incapable of understanding anything else as they lack any sense of empathy.

It was a similar situation to the one you described the one that i mentioned: it isnt my story to tell so i have to remain exceptionally vague out of respect for privacy, but malefica was effective at ending a perpetrator who had inflicted tremendous sexual abuse. The malefica liquefied them whilst they were still alive via an aggressive form of cancer. It was what the spirits had decided how to deal with said individual. Obviously them being dead, meant that they could no longer carry out the abuse that the judiciary system had entirely failed to stop.

It does not make one arbiter of justice, but you can petition those who are to deal it out. You can also use it in any manner you see fit as a tool as along as you are prepared for the consequences, and self defence is a perfectly viable reason to use it. I entirely agree with you it should be done out of either love, or at least with a level, considered head as a last option. The malefica used also has to be proportionate.

That said though, why go running to ineffective human authorities when you have the power to deal with it yourself or by going to an authority that far outstrips their own? The only real reason would be if you arnt confident enough in your own abilities or those of the spirits you liaise with to deal with the situation, or you literally possessed 'smoking gun' type evidence that would guarantee a very long sentence.

[Rin]

No I haven't read the duplicate thread, link it, it might shed some light on the exact situation so we can more precisely comment on what is and is not appropriate.

[Sypheara]

No I haven't read the duplicate thread, link it, it might shed some light on the exact situation so we can more precisely comment on what is and is not appropriate.

Here you go, really looking forward to your thoughts and replies.

http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... 55&t=38112

[Lucius]

I posted on the other thread, however I will write my thoughts here briefly too.

Once you start going down that path of cursing people etc. it changes you, and I've seen the other side of that etc.

Look, he says at one post they are sociopaths then in another that they are driven by jealousy etc. I am not trying to cast doubt in his story, however he is not looking for defence, he has in mind a very specific vision of what he wants to do and won't stop until he does it.

The issue with sending a spirit to "only harm if they are doing something wrong" is- wrong in who's perspective. We cannot judge like that. There are 100 things he can do with magic to keep them out of his life, so why is he choosing this. I say choosing because I have offered to help him and show him other ways of dealing with it using magic, that will keep him safe, keep them out of his life but nothing like that, he ignored my PM then posted here.

I think little of this guy to be honest, he wants to hurt these people out of revenge, not defence of himself. As you said Rin, a poltergeist will do very little to actually stop the situation and Sypheara you are not helping him by showing him different curses.

I too am a martial artist of significant years experience, not a "sword art" but Karate, a martial art which is actually useful (sorry). Look, I don't know where you got your philosophy from about "cutting people down" etc. but we protect ourselves by turning our enemies into our friends, or bringing the relationship to a neutral point. If someone attacks you by all means defend yourself, but don't go overkill for the sake of it. That's what I am saying.

I suppose there are 2 types of magicians in this world, me and you and we are different in our approaches which is fine. You have enough experience under your belt to call forward dark ones etc. and with that experience comes the wisdom of when you actually should do it. In my eyes, if Liberator even needs to ask how to summon and send a poltergeist he is no where near experienced enough to judge whether that is appropriate and no matter how much he describes his situation at the end of the day, it is a PM online, and his perspective only.

As I said before, I am more than happy to help him defend himself, using magic, but in a more controlled way. To remove them from his life without drastic violence like that.

[Maya The Generator]

I 100% agree with post above! I do not have much experience in Martial Arts but I had pleasure to learn Tae Kwon Do for 4 years and I meet there teacher which was of very kind Heart. He showed us the ways of staying alive and keepin distance from dangerous people and situations.

I do not want to sound mean but what said Lucius is accurate to my feelings. Especially this:

Look, he says at one post they are sociopaths then in another that they are driven by jealousy etc. I am not trying to cast doubt in his story, however he is not looking for defence, he has in mind a very specific vision of what he wants to do and won't stop until he does it.

The issue with sending a spirit to "only harm if they are doing something wrong" is- wrong in who's perspective. We cannot judge like that. There are 100 things he can do with magic to keep them out of his life, so why is he choosing this. I say choosing because I have offered to help him and show him other ways of dealing with it using magic, that will keep him safe, keep them out of his life but nothing like that, he ignored my PM then posted here.

I think little of this guy to be honest, he wants to hurt these people out of revenge, not defence of himself. As you said Rin, a poltergeist will do very little to actually stop the situation and Sypheara you are not helping him by showing him different curses.

Unstable situation that is. Insufficient data... [tongue]

[Sypheara]

I posted on the other thread, however I will write my thoughts here briefly too.

Once you start going down that path of cursing people etc. it changes you, and I've seen the other side of that etc.

Look, he says at one post they are sociopaths then in another that they are driven by jealousy etc. I am not trying to cast doubt in his story, however he is not looking for defence, he has in mind a very specific vision of what he wants to do and won't stop until he does it.

The issue with sending a spirit to "only harm if they are doing something wrong" is- wrong in who's perspective. We cannot judge like that. There are 100 things he can do with magic to keep them out of his life, so why is he choosing this. I say choosing because I have offered to help him and show him other ways of dealing with it using magic, that will keep him safe, keep them out of his life but nothing like that, he ignored my PM then posted here.

I think little of this guy to be honest, he wants to hurt these people out of revenge, not defence of himself. As you said Rin, a poltergeist will do very little to actually stop the situation and Sypheara you are not helping him by showing him different curses.

I too am a martial artist of significant years experience, not a "sword art" but Karate, a martial art which is actually useful (sorry). Look, I don't know where you got your philosophy from about "cutting people down" etc. but we protect ourselves by turning our enemies into our friends, or bringing the relationship to a neutral point. If someone attacks you by all means defend yourself, but don't go overkill for the sake of it. That's what I am saying.

I suppose there are 2 types of magicians in this world, me and you and we are different in our approaches which is fine. You have enough experience under your belt to call forward dark ones etc. and with that experience comes the wisdom of when you actually should do it. In my eyes, if Liberator even needs to ask how to summon and send a poltergeist he is no where near experienced enough to judge whether that is appropriate and no matter how much he describes his situation at the end of the day, it is a PM online, and his perspective only.

As I said before, I am more than happy to help him defend himself, using magic, but in a more controlled way. To remove them from his life without drastic violence like that.

I've talked to Liberator quite extensively over PMs, I know why he would need to stop these people from causing harm. I obviously can't disclose that additional information, as it is not mine to disclose. He asked for help, so I gave him a binding spell capable of keeping these people out of his life. I illustrated the Dark Dead for a simple reason: it is likely out of his league, incorporates elements of practice that he is uncomfortable with, and as you say, is likely overkill for what he needs. These people whilst are threat, are not currently causing injury, therefore a protective preventative measure should be sought.

I am not showing him 'different types' of curses which is hyperbole. I showed him two. One as an extreme example of what would be needed to get his poltergeist, then illustrated why its too much effort for what its worth. I then PMed him a modified form of the Tanglefoot Charm, which will do exactly what he wants, in Hecates name, who can judge far better than you or I can the level of binding that is required to safeguard him.

The wisdom you mention is through experience - recently I have been able to read situations and people far, far better than before based on sacrificial work carried out. In this case i saw a genuine concern that these people he mentions are possibly a threat. Thats not from his words, but the strong 'feelings' i get associated when they are mentioned.

He has been provided the means now to defend himself - its up to him to put it into action, with the will of the Gods to guide him to the correct conclusion.

As for the following:

I too am a martial artist of significant years experience, not a "sword art" but Karate, a martial art which is actually useful (sorry). Look, I don't know where you got your philosophy from about "cutting people down" etc. but we protect ourselves by turning our enemies into our friends, or bringing the relationship to a neutral point. If someone attacks you by all means defend yourself, but don't go overkill for the sake of it. That's what I am saying.

It shows a lack of respect and a certain shallowness of your own practice to go calling something you have no understanding of useless. There are several people who learn what I do who also do karate, and they see the benefit in the kenjutsu and iaido schools i am part of, all of which have identifiable and intact lineages. People like our soke have had decades of experience. These arts teach much of the same essential body movements, they condition the body in the same way, as well as training the will. The sword is really second fiddle to how the body is utilized. Most of the identical, physical principles can be applied in fighting with the hands and knives. As such the people wouldn't do them if they saw no purpose in them or were getting tangible benefits out of them - one of them is quite a high dan grade. I say sword arts because that is exactly what they are - I don't need to explain them for use within an analogy.

As for my philosophy it is my own, it's none of my teachers or anyone elses, but it is honest and direct. It is one built up from personal experience that sometimes, people will not stop coming, until physically rendered incapable of that. Anyone who violates my personal space can expect a quick and decisive response, using the maximum amount of force to reduce injury to myself. I would use anything to hand to give me a decisive victory over an attacker, be that a sword, a bottle, a rock. Anything. This goes for any physical, mental or spiritual level Why concern yourself about the assailant? They chose to attack you, to injure you, to violate your space. In a street fight, the victor is the one who survives and no other rules exist.

As i said before, its a fallacy to believe you can turn every enemy into a friend or reach neutral ground. Some people HATE, are full of hate, and can understand nothing else, even possibly broken at the soul level. Just look at all these nutcase fundamentalists out there, like that nutcase Orthodox Jew who stabbed to death a 16 year old girl due to her sexuality, or the West borough Baptist Church Christian nutcases.

I agree with you, where possible, friendship and cooperation should be pursued. Nobody, unless they are damaged, likes causing pain, injury and death in the real world.

[Lucius]

Can I first apologise for being disrespectful about your martial art. I have re-read what I wrote and it indeed did come across that way. I have respect for all martial arts yours included and I am not above apologising when I am wrong- I'm sorry.

I am glad to hear it is in his hands now, I believe at the end of the day every magician, either further down the line or at the start of their journey, is faced with a cross roads and a choice. However we are always faced with these choices and each decision we make we grow and learn from, I wish the best to him and hope him well.

Lucius.

[Sypheara]

Thank you very much for the apology Lucius, it is well received and noted.

I agree with what you posted 100% about the crossroads.. thats very important. He will need to walk the path himself and make his own choices, which is an option I wanted to open up to him. As said, I do believe there is a genuine concern here, otherwise I wouldn't be wasting my own time and energy.

[mestre]

I have a similar problem and I do send psychic attacks to my enemy but I need another solution. Please pm me these binding spells
Thanks

[Dalovey]

Just any, as long as it will be effective.

It will never be effective because they will never associate the phenomenon they're experiencing with their treatment of you. All it will do is make them more angry/scared/miserable, which will lead them to lashing out further at the people around them.

"Darkness cannot be dissipated with more darkness. More darkness will make darkness thicker. Only light can dissipate darkness. Violence and hatred cannot be removed with violence and hatred." - Thich Nhat Hanh

They might not associate it but it can be enough to manipulate it. In my view if you send a bolt of light into the shadows it will be noticed. If you send a cloud of shadows of a slightly lighter color it will most likely go without notice.

I feel one needs to slowly change a situation and not shock it into obedience. If you need to use the dark to change a situation into something more light do so. However to add the same darkness to the darkness of the situation and your asking for a storm.

I think it's mostly about the type of the energy you send in. If someone's depressed and you send in happiness as one wave they may reject it no matter how strong you are. However if you slowly send in the healing energy and thoughts hidden among the pain they will slowly except it and welcome it as normal. The point is not to sent in the same darkness but something slightly less dark. My tactic would be to slowly remove what I put in to keep a balance. If you put in 2% more light and 3 percent more dark you should take out 5 percent true darkness.

The darkness can also be manipulated to mean something entirely different. Darkness to most people is seen as black. I see most things as clear energy with intention so if they see it as black you can put in that 3% darkness to trick them into excepting the light but leave the darkness so it adapts to the environment.

I could go on for hrs! [neutral2]

[RoseRed]

I would love to hear about it. Would you be so kind as to start a thread about it?

[Dalovey]

I would love to hear about it. Would you be so kind as to start a thread about it?

I wouldn't know where to start. you mean just write about it or post a comment? Never started a thread like that before...

[Caerdon]

I would love to hear about it. Would you be so kind as to start a thread about it?

I wouldn't know where to start. you mean just write about it or post a comment? Never started a thread like that before...

You would just need to choose a forum topic that you feel it would fit best in and just write an overview about it on the points you feel important. After that, people will ask what they need expanded on or for any information they'd like to know [thumbup]

[the_spiral]

In my tradition an intranquil spirit would be contracted for such work. They're quite easy to get in touch with even for novices. Keep in mind easy doesn't mean safe, clean or reliable.

[Liberator]

In my tradition an intranquil spirit would be contracted for such work. They're quite easy to get in touch with even for novices. Keep in mind easy doesn't mean safe, clean or reliable.

But intranquils are only for people who want to get their ex back, not for vengeance/retribution?

[the_spiral]

In my tradition an intranquil spirit would be contracted for such work. They're quite easy to get in touch with even for novices. Keep in mind easy doesn't mean safe, clean or reliable.

But intranquils are only for people who want to get their ex back, not for vengeance/retribution?

No, that's just what they're best known for. In reality they're quite eager to do any type of torment work, you just need to change the petition and desired outcome accordingly, i.e. they'll harass the victims until they beg you for forgiveness (or however you want it to end). There are some serious drawbacks to working with them though.