The degradation of modern religion

[Caerdon]

I don't know how to quote on my phone.

Regarding not being hunted down for practicing - persecution is alive and thriving in today's world as well.

That it is. It's even still thriving in the more "civilized" regions of the world.


Alot of people seem to keep going on for the 2+2=5 thing... while it's generally considered false, there is math that proves it can be true still. If needed I can drag up the math but generally, if you are using the higher mathematics than it's kinda useless to know Quite simply, my point is that it's a terrible equation to use as an example, which is why I chose some different numbers for mine.

If you want to go into the several ways that we can objectively measure and calculate the age of Earth and the local Solar System, how long the Earth has been spinning, how long the Earth has been in orbit around the Sun and how long it is likely to continue doing so provided circumstances remain as they are...

Yes. There is quite a lot of objective proof for my statement.

No I meant, can YOU do it. Not just remember something you read from a book or checking wikipedia. How can you be certain something existed before you did?
For all we know, the sun is just part of your imagination, and if you stop believing in that reality so hard, you might be able to move it around freely at will.

It is quite simple to know that something existed before I did. It's the same way that we know that something exists beyond ourselves, that other people are not automatons of our minds. It's acknowledging that there is an outside world beyond your experience, that people outside yourself have experiences which are unrelated to yourself, outside of your entire existence.
By learning new things beyond your experience you validate that the world is beyond your existence. If something can happen beyond your own existence, then therefor something must have existed before your existence, just like something will happen after your existence ends.
If given the proper tools I could prove that something existed long before I did, by use of scientific experiments as well as calculations and measuring tools.
The mere fact of the matter is that reality does not care if you believe in it or not as it is not a subjective thing. I'm not talking about your experiences within reality, but the entirety of reality itself.

[Draco20]

Organized religion is in decline in the West but not spirituality. What we are seeing is a diversification of belief systems where less people are willing to define themselves in one particular mold shaped by religious institutions that are often disconnected from the progressive social values and everyday reality we live in. One reason for that is the Internet where we have easy access to international communication and various types of spiritual/religious contents. Knowledge is power. But that can also make for mishmash of beliefs and interpretations since now people have more than one source of informations available and don't need to rely on the local priest anymore. Besides, paranormal/esoteric concepts are on the rise, the unexplained and unortodox is appealing as our awareness seems expand and more people are drifting away from the traditional doctrines of the Catholic Church in the West. Science has played it's part in that.

I think spirituality in the West will lead us towards a sort of (neo)pagan culture as it was before the Judeo-Christian tradition took over. Time changes. We'll see a variety of faith (and non-beliefs) living alongside each other, where people worship their God(s) or none at all and participate in all kinds of groups or spiritual communities. ''And ye harm none, do what thou wilt'' would be emphasized even more. In a sense, multiculturalism, our liberal democracies and the law are bound to direct us towards this kind of multi-faith culture anyway.

[Maya The Generator]

@Caerdon: Please do! I seen this 2+2=5 but I do not remember where and I am not the best person to try describing the mechanics behinde it.

Maybe world is objective but I think We(as humans) can only try to be objective. We have our limitations.

@Shin: Who knows? Lately it is easy to be mixed with the mud on sites...

Still, Keep with good Flow, Praise Teh Sun [yay]

[Caerdon]

@Caerdon: Please do! I seen this 2+2=5 but I do not remember where and I am not the best person to try describing the mechanics behinde it.

Maybe world is objective but I think We(as humans) can only try to be objective. We have our limitations.

@Shin: Who knows? Lately it is easy to be mixed with the mud on sites...

Still, Keep with good Flow, Praise Teh Sun [yay]

Here's my favorite proof of it, via meme form

Spoiler:

[Maya The Generator]

Perfecto [gz] [thumbup] [cool]

[Shinichi]

I don't know how to quote on my phone.

Regarding not being hunted down for practicing - persecution is alive and thriving in today's world as well.

Okay, fair point. But we have made progress, especially in certain parts of the West over the last few decades. Some people just think we're nuts, and some people are finally listening to Thomas Jefferson ("But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."), but in any case we've mostly made it through the worst of these most recent Dark Times for now. There's still more work to do, but meh. There's always something for us to do. [razz]

Alot of people seem to keep going on for the 2+2=5 thing... while it's generally considered false, there is math that proves it can be true still. If needed I can drag up the math but generally, if you are using the higher mathematics than it's kinda useless to know Quite simply, my point is that it's a terrible equation to use as an example, which is why I chose some different numbers for mine.

Here's my favorite proof of it, via meme form

Spoiler:

Okay, that's brilliant. [greensmile]

And it only further proves the last point I tried making to Maya. An Objective Reality does not have to mean that there is only "One Twu Way" in all things, and it doesn't mean paradox is a given for everything either. Rather, because reality is objective, with objective principles and rules, we can use those rules to bend things in different ways. Like how we can defy gravity by using aerodynamics and speed, or how we can make 2+2=5 true by manipulating more advanced mathematical rules.

Magick is the same. We learn the objective rules, the Metaphysics, so that we can bend those rules in order to make weird and wonderful things happen.

The universe is indeed a beautiful place. [wink2]



~:Shin:~

[RoseRed]

You've been fortunate so far.

[Yeshai]

Wow, this thread took off in a direction I never intended it to go.

First of all, thank you all for the replies.

Rose Red really reinforced what I originally intended on saying when she siad people in the old days had more faith than we of today.
Whether there was more religious persecution or not is beside the point; people of any given religion had more faith (generally speaking).

(By the way, pagans and witches weren't the only ones burned at the stake. Look at the anabaptists, persecuted in every stage of their history to the present day)

I didn't want to get into advanced discussions about 2+2=5 or anything of the sort. To be honest, I feel lost in the sea of ideas that has been discussed in this thread.

Let me reference the scriptures, on the apostle Paul. When Paul was blinded by the heavenly light, and heard the voice come out of heaven, none of the men accompanying him saw the light; only Paul. The light was real to Paul, but not to the others.

[magari]

The light of God is a metaphor, I wasnt standing next to Paul when that happened, but I am fairly certain Paul wasnt literally blinded by light.

Taking this literally, you miss the point.

[Maya The Generator]

Yeshai, I think it is not problem with only religion.

People were more devoted to do things in the past because they had not so many incentives.

I would love to describe more what I am tryin to communicate but I lack adequate words.

In todays society you can be pretty much passive and oppurtunities arise from everywhere.

Mhmm. Maybe somebody understands what I am tryin to say and will have better flow with the words.

Have a Good Day and Praise Teh Sun [yay]