Does it take a witch to make a witch?

[DarkSchneider]

I've been reading a bit about Alex Sanders, the so called "King of Witches" and he seems like a real charlatan. Making up his backstories and exaggerating details. Anyway, I was reading how, for Alexandrian Wiccans, it supposedly takes a witch to make a witch.

Was this an idea exclusively for his branch of Wicca or did he actually believe that only witches can make other witches no matter the group? I don't know if this sentiment is generally shared with other occult groups, but I am aware that initiation and stuff is a common tradition. I just find the idea a bit laughable, if by this they mean, absolutely only witches have the right to perform magick.

I'm not a Wiccan but for my education as of late I've been trying to read some of their work to get the fundamentals of circle casting, elemental work, meditation and etc down so I can be clear on how to do them.

[ThyNegative]

then who made the first witch? [rofl]
Einstein is the first one that discovered relativity , and all you need two learn relativity is to just read a book. but that doesn't mean that no one else can discover it again! actually some one that discovers something will learn it a lot better that the one that reads the discoveries on his book. for example you calculate your problems with a calculator, well it is faster than not using a calculator. but if you don't use a calculator, you will solve problems faster comparing to someone that was using a calculator before when both of you don't have a calculator at hand. because when you don't use a calculator, your "without using a calculator" skills will improve .
so it may be extremely rare for someone to actually succeed becoming a (powerful) witch alone, but that one will reach beyond what others cannot reach. so possibly it depends on how stubborn and lucky you are to become one.

[RaineAshford]

Sometimes a witch learns on her own. Sometimes a witch has a mentor.

A witch that learns on her own has divine guidance from Existence.
A witch that learns from another witch will still be unique in her craft.

All craft is unique.

[Rin]

I'd say - within the context of a specific tradition, I'd say yes. So if you want to be an Alexandrian Witch and practice their specific brand of Witchcraft, then you'll need an initiation.

In more general terms, not specifically, but it definitely helps. There's nothing stopping you from studying and creating your own spells, rituals etc. But taking this path is going to be orders of magnitude harder if you try to do it from the very beginning (much as teaching yourself any other human endeavor is going to more difficult than learning it firsthand from someone with experience), which is why most successful practitioners either have teachers or have done stints with a teacher.

[Desecrated]

Solitary witchcraft has always existed.
The person causing the results are you. You can have 10 mentors but if you don't do the work, you won't get good results.

[RoseRed]

First you have to remember that Wicca is a religion. They're not making witches through the initiation. It could be compared to a baptism, a formal entry and acceptance into a religion. Catholic priests have their own version of it, too.

The best Wiccan book I've found for practical magic is Ray bucklands big blue book of witchcraft. If you can separate the dogma from the magical work, that is.

You don't have to be a witch to be a Wiccan

[DarkSchneider]

@ThyNegative

LMAO good point.

That really made me laugh lol.

@RaineAshford

I agree with that. That sounds like a fair conclusion

@Rin

Another fair conclusion. I don't mean to harp on Alexandrians themselves, I just find this Alex Sanders guy a little bit arrogant. He's certainly no king of mine...

I understand the need for having a teacher, something that I'm kinda looking for. I made a thread about some guy offering to teach me but he's a little too forward. It's kinda making me nervous.

@Desecrated

This is what I mean, you know, solitary witchcraft always seemed likely to me. The first time I even heard of real magick was through the concept of poppets and my cousin yelling at me for finding a poppet magnet, a souvenir my mom had. But I agree with you, work is to be done whether or not you are alone.

@RoseRed

Thank you for the clarification. I suppose since it is a religion it's best to understand that. It's acceptance into the religion.

I'm happy to announce that my collection is growing and that I now own Ray Buckland's book. I'll examine it soon, I'm kinda distracted with all the books I own. I have a habit of buying more than I actually read at a time so...I gotta get on top of that

[RoseRed]

I think you might really enjoy reading and t get quite a bit from Grimassi's Witch Lore by the Hearthside. It's a small book but it is a lovely read.

[Desecrated]

"Many people have told me that they desperately need to undergo Wiccan initiation. They seem to believe that one cannot practice wicca without this stamp of approval. If you've read this far, you know this is simply not the case"

"Wicca has been, up until the past decade or so, a closed religion, But no more. The inner components of wicca are available to anyone who can read.
For every secret wiccan ritual there are dozens if not hundreds of others published and readily available. At this moment more wiccan information has been released then ever before."

Scott Cunningham - Wicca - A guide for solitary practitioner - 1988.

[Desecrated]

Back in the 90's when ever somebody said witchcraft, wicca was the first thing that came to my mind, but now I feel like the word witchcraft represent traditional craft. And when I'm talking about wicca, I don't call them witches, I call them wiccans.

So what I was talking about in my first post was traditional witchcraft. Which has been practiced solitary since the age of ancient history. (Medea) But there has also been families (father to son or mother to daughter) as well as teacher/apprenticeship and also in some cases, covens or larger groups practising together.

But since rose brought up wiccans, I thought I would insert a quote from a real wiccan who thinks slightly different than other wiccans, just to get some width to the subject.

Point being: It's hard to say. Different traditions during different times in different regions have had different methods.

So If you wanted to call yourself a wiccan in the 70's, initiation was the only accepted method, but in the 90's pretty much anybody with a librarycard could call themselves wiccans.
In traditional witchcraft there are several examples of people simply choosing to become witches, or those that have just had a calling or had extraordinary talents for healing or divination or such.
Natural born witches.

There is also some tales of people being kidnapped by the little people or eating white snakes and then becoming witches... (I don't know if that's real or not, but it is an example of witches without teachers, becoming successful witches.) I wouldn't recommend this method.

[DarkSchneider]

Thanks Desecrated.

I appreciate the posts and the added touch of quotes from one of my favorite authors, Scott Cunningham

I'll keep this all in mind and how it affects wicca currently.