Why Demons?

[WillowDarkWytch]

Motumbá Àse

Why Demons? Having lots of gods, deities, genies, spirits, intelligences, etc. that may provide help or actually fix your (financial/love/luck/relationship/boss/etc,etc,etc)problem.

Why to choose goetic demons? Is it because you see the "ancient god" behind them? Then why don't you just actually work with the ancient deity/god?

Goetic Demons are DEMONS form a judeo-christian point of view. They are aspects of the ancient deities that have been "corrupted", so invoking them with the "new" keys (goetic keys), would call the ancient AND the new, i.e. the demonolized god, not just the god.

So, I ask, WHY DEMONS?

Saravá
Idansinají

[Count Zero]

Motumbá Àse

Ayibobo WillowDarkWitch

Why Demons? Having lots of gods, deities, genies, spirits, intelligences, etc. that may provide help or actually fix your (financial/love/luck/relationship/boss/etc,etc,etc)problem.

I use the word demon to represent the word 'daemon', mostly because more people recognise the word 'demon', or believe that the word 'daemon' is a spelling mistake, and read 'demon' anyway. To me, a demon/daemon is simply a source of knowledge or wisdom. To illustrate this, and the etymology of the word itself, please let me quote from another source, rather than write it out again in my own words.

Daemons are benevolent or benign nature spirits, beings of the same nature as both mortals and deities, similar to ghosts, chthonic heroes, spirit guides, forces of nature or the deities themselves (see Plato's Symposium). Walter Burkert suggests that unlike the Christian use of demon in a strictly malignant sense, "[a] general belief in spirits is not expressed by the term daimon until the 5th century when a doctor asserts that neurotic women and girls can be driven to suicide by imaginary apparitions, ‘evil daimones’. How far this is an expression of widespread popular superstition is not easy to judge. On the basis of Hesiod's myth, however, what did gain currency was for great and powerful figures to be honoured after death as a daimon…" Daimon is not so much a type of quasi-divine being, according to Burkert, but rather a non-personified "peculiar mode" of their activity.

In Hesiod's Theogony, Phaëton becomes an incorporeal daimon or a divine spirit, but, for example, the ills released by Pandora are deadly deities, keres, not daimones. From Hesiod also, the people of the Golden Age were transformed into daimones by the will of Zeus, to serve mortals benevolently as their guardian spirits; "good beings who dispense riches…[nevertheless], they remain invisible, known only by their acts". The daimon of venerated heroes, were localized by the construction of shrines, so as not to restlessly wander, and were believed to confer protection and good fortune on those offering their respects.

Characterizations of the daemon as a dangerous, if not evil, lesser spirit were developed by Plato and his pupil Xenocrates, and later absorbed in Christian patristic writings along with Neo-Platonic elements.

In the Old Testament, evil spirits appear in the book of Judges and in Kings. In the Greek translation of the Septuagint, made for the Greek-speaking Jews of Alexandria, the Greek ángelos (ἄγγελος "messenger") translates the Hebrew word mal'ak, while daimon (or neuter daimonion (δαιμόνιον)) carries the meaning of a natural spirit that is less than divine, but still supernatural, and translates the Hebrew words for idols, foreign deities, certain beasts, and natural evils The use of daimōn in the New Testament's original Greek text, caused the Greek word to be applied to the Judeo-Christian concept of an evil spirit by the early second century AD.

Why to choose goetic demons? Is it because you see the "ancient god" behind them? Then why don't you just actually work with the ancient deity/god?

Yes, that's why I use them, and yes - I do work with just one of them, and their root in Zoroastrianism. I find the techniques in the Lemegeton to be somewhat confrontational and lacking in finesse, plus they approach the topic from the perspective of the Abrahamic faiths, and assume you are doing so as well.

Goetic Demons are DEMONS form a judeo-christian point of view. They are aspects of the ancient deities that have been "corrupted", so invoking them with the "new" keys (goetic keys), would call the ancient AND the new, i.e. the demonolized god, not just the god.

Yes, see my comment above. Goetic demons were purposely corrupted versions of the original gods, much in the same way Christianity demonised many pagan gods and spirits, especially Pan.

So, I ask, WHY DEMONS?

Because it's a valid system when developed fully and not just used as in the way described in the Christian faith. Remember that all forms of magick are evil when viewed through a Christian world view, not just the use of Goetic demons. When studied in detail, and approached with respect, the spirits in question are much more ancient than much of Western mysticism.

Saravá
Idansinají

Honour and respect to you, your family, and your ancestors.

[Shinichi]

Motumbá Àse

Why Demons? Having lots of gods, deities, genies, spirits, intelligences, etc. that may provide help or actually fix your (financial/love/luck/relationship/boss/etc,etc,etc)problem.

Why to choose goetic demons? Is it because you see the "ancient god" behind them? Then why don't you just actually work with the ancient deity/god?

Goetic Demons are DEMONS form a judeo-christian point of view. They are aspects of the ancient deities that have been "corrupted", so invoking them with the "new" keys (goetic keys), would call the ancient AND the new, i.e. the demonolized god, not just the god.

So, I ask, WHY DEMONS?

Saravá
Idansinají

Not all of them were straight up deities. There's actually only a few that we can look at with scholarly, critical eyes and say that they are very likely related to beings worshiped as deities in older cultures. For the rest, almost nothing is known about them outside the Judeo-Christian Tradition.

As for why, there's several reasons. Frankly, a lot of people in this modern, westernized, christianized culture simply don't know about other forms of spirit work. They are taught about angels and demons, so that's the go to paradigm. And when it comes to actually doing the spirit work: the angels, if you can get them to cooperate with you at all, are far more likely to teach you how to do something or make sure you grow up enough to figure it out for yourself than simply do it for you. A lot of people just don't like that, for numerous reasons, and choose to work with the Goetia because those spirits will happily create a quid pro quo pact. They accept offerings and other payments, as negotiated, and just do magic on your behalf.

Not all of them are really demonic though, and I really haven't met one that I would call evil. They're wild, certainly, but not pure evil. They embrace the roles they have been given in the Goetia because there are deeper rules at play and bigger contracts, and often just because they get a kick out of scaring the shit out of neophytes stupid enough to try and conjure them without proper training.

I don't exactly see them as deities, but they are most certainly very old and very powerful spirits. I've not met them all, but I'm kinda-sorta friendly with Marchosias because I'm kinda-sorta doing him a favor. It's complicated. [tongue] Another big reason for communicating with them, and one I highly recommend, is to just talk to them. If you are clairvoyant enough to see through deceptions and intelligent enough to keep up with the Fae-like mind games, they know a hell of a lot. Not just about Judeo-Christian cosmology and magic, but they can also teach you simple things like how to be good at business, how to be better with women, how to learn languages, how to see the future. They can do things on your behalf, but they can also simply teach you things, and that is far more powerful spirit work in my book.



~:Shin:~

[WillowDarkWytch]

Motumbá Àse, Count Zero and Shinichi

I loved both you responses.

Count Zero, I'm very familiarized with the term Daimon/Daemon, and actually do use the term Daimon for it. Daemon, as you say, it's always confused as Demon.

Shinichi, I do agree that they're not the "ultimate evil", but calling them just "wild" is too soft too.

And, both of you guys, of course I'm not asking specially you why would you choose to work with demons LOL It was not a (real) question to experienced magician/witches/conjurers, etc. It was actually made for the beginners. The typical beginners that come here asking for tips to summon a spirit from the Goetia. To them I say "We have gods, deities, spirits, inteligences, angels, etc to work with", yes, and WAY BEFORE trying something "heavier" as a demon.

That's all.

I really think that the reasons are:

1. Want to do things easy,fast and free.
2. Wanna be "bad boys" 'cause "demons are cooler and darker and makes me sound powerful and scary"

I say to that:

1. No, there's no such thing as easy AND fast AND free. There are easy things, but they're not that fast and not for free. There are fast things, though not that easy and ofcourse not for free. There are free things and are NOT easy and they are NOT fast. Goetic demons are not easy, nor free, maybe fast if worked well.
2. Wanna be a "bad ass" witch or magician??? TRAIN TRAIN TRAIN, learn about correspondences, herbs, stones, crystals... Get to know spirits and deities, get to know the gods. Get your juice up and running. Firstly to be a badass witch/mage you need to make things happen, to get your spells to manifest. If you don't do that, your neither a witch, a mage, a sorcerer... you're just a kid lighting candles.

So, summoning demons? Wether be through goetic keys or demonolatry, it's a bad idea to begin with your path. Actually demonolatry is a whole bad idea if you're not experienced in magic and occultism. I know people that fucked up they're life because of going worshiping demons and "lending their body".

Demons are not easy and pretty much not free. Fast they are, they're fast to accomplish your wishes as they're fast to screw you up if they want to Hehehe

I think they choose demons because they're lazy, and if that's right, they're not gonna get what they want, even if they say they do, I know it's not true

Saravá
Idansinají

PS: Sorry if I sound little preachy LOL That's just how I express my self. I'm just laying here my opinion and not trying to change anyone [wink]

[Desecrated]

As for why, there's several reasons. Frankly, a lot of people in this modern, westernized, christianized culture simply don't know about other forms of spirit work.

This.

[WillowDarkWytch]

AH! Just rememberd!

As for angels not being fast, Lunar Angels (Angels of the Mansions of the Moon) are quite fast, AND they do work with "mudane" things. It's just a thing of aproach to have them work with us.

There's always the option of planetary magic, talismans, etc. When done correctly, they DO have lots of benefits.

The thing is that there are many, many ways to work and have our goals but people doesn't know how to work. So, if they don't know that, how they expect to have a demon to work for them? That's my reasoning.

[the_spiral]

I think beginners like to evoke the Goetia because it's seemingly easy to do so. They're available, they're close to this plane, information for evoking them is easy to find, and some are quite friendly and quick to take on work other spirits will balk at due to a magician's laziness or lack of ethics. The "seemingly" part is because I've noticed their tendency to trick people into untenable pacts. Most experienced magicians are aware of these traps and can work around them but novices walk right into them.

[Horny Goat]

Why Demons?

The purpose of the Goetic spirits is to lead you astray spiritually by getting you to do something wrong.
Yes, they will help you but often in a way whereby you are tempted to something crappy to others and so also yourself. Also, if you aren't up to the task of interacting with them they will attack you and destroy your health. So then, the Goetia is something intended to do harm. It is an evil book promoted by evil powers. That is the reason for it's enduring prominence. It is the Devil's work. You do well to avoid it.

[Nahemah]

And, both of you guys, of course I'm not asking specially you why would you choose to work with demons LOL It was not a (real) question to experienced magician/witches/conjurers, etc. It was actually made for the beginners. The typical beginners that come here asking for tips to summon a spirit from the Goetia. To them I say "We have gods, deities, spirits, inteligences, angels, etc to work with", yes, and WAY BEFORE trying something "heavier" as a demon.

That's all.

I really think that the reasons are:

1. Want to do things easy,fast and free.
2. Wanna be "bad boys" 'cause "demons are cooler and darker and makes me sound powerful and scary"

Baiting is not allowed here.

If a member asks a question, that is a different matter, though we still would not accept this kind of answer as a reasonable adult response either.

Also, it is not your role to act as gatekeeper or moral arbiter of what gets posted or who posts it. it is also not acceptable to blanket label beginner members this way either, many don't have any interest in Goetia or Demonic summoning, but those who do can ask what they want to here.

Claiming it's 'just how you express yourself' is not an acceptable reason for breaking posting rules either.

Thread closed, but this should have been picked up on earlier, so apologies for that.