Professional Tarot/Astrology consultants

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Baphmetis

I have a question for anyone here who has a business or earns a livng from tarot reading or astrology. Or any other form of divination for that matter. I apologize if this isn't within the scope of this forum, as this relates more to the business side of divination. So Mods, feel free to move it wherever you will.

First off, can you actually earn a decent living from reading the tarot or as an astrology consultant? Or does it simply supplement your income while you work at the day job?

Do you have any advice for those starting out?

This is something I have been interested in recently, although I'm not seriously considering getting into it just yet. I am simply curious to hear about it from those who have experience in this business.

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Original post: Rick

Hmm... well, I've been doing readings professionally for quite a few years now... I'd advise to keep the day job. Depending on the venue, I rarely make more than expenses, but on the other hand, I've really never hustled to build a steady clientele. I've never really wanted to do readings out of the house on a regular basis... and doing them at a shop or a psychic fair or flea market or a medieval festival involves paying a fee for space, & other expenses. I have a few friends in the business that do it for a living (out of their homes). Generally speaking, they have to work everyday just to make ends meet, with very little extra.

That said, I enjoy doing it, & plan to continue to do the 'circuit' in my region of the country.

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Original post: PhoenixR

Well, I know several who read to supplement their income but not as their only source of income. But things like your location, how aggressively you market, opposing forces in the community, and such I'm sure would factor in whether you could make a living out of it.

One reader I know sets up a table and chairs on a street in New Orleans, and he told me of a certain well-dressed couple who approached him. They were on vacation in NO and wanted to experience some real NO atmosphere. My friend Bon usually asks (he states it as asking for donations, not a required fee; I think there's a law about that) $20 per reading, and the male customer said if Bon gave a reading he could believe then he'd gladly pay up. But they were not going to give any info and Bon had to really come up with something outstanding. Undaunted, Bon told him this was not his wife with him, she was his mistress, and then several other factual tidbits that he had no way of knowing other than metaphysical means. The stunned customers each laid a $100 bill on his table.

Bon also stated to me that generosity like this is extremely rare and couldn't be depended on, no matter how accurate a reader you might be.

PhoenixR

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Original post: Dracophoenix

I use to work as a proffessonal reader a lot more than I do now. The first proffessional reading I did was horrible very negative reading. Luckily the lady had a good nature and still paid me she did a 180° turn around in her life an when she came back later she asked me to do another reading and it turned out to be very positive because of the changes she made.
Since my hubby and I both work, I occcationally do proffesional readings when I need some extra money. Some people will tell you you'll lose your abilities if your paid. I think it depends on the indivdual. Some people can't do proffessional readings without negative consequences. However not everybody is like that.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: ~ Serenity ~

I used to work a lot, doing as many as twenty full readings a week (and my sessions often go two hours) so while I gained a lot of experence and made a little money, I was always drained and tired, even when I grounded etc. It just wasn't worth it, in the end.

I do a little paid work still, but only to select clients who "get" my style of readings and aren't looking for fortune telling. It was always so difficult to face people who aren't interested in tarot, just "knowing what's gonna happen" and worse still, those who came to see "how psychic I am".

What I have found rewarding, both monetarily and personally, is teaching. I'm developing an online tarot course and teach a small group that meets weekly - by seeing fifteen people at a time, I can charge them way less and still make a little income, and teaching invigorates me as opposed to the exhausting effect of lengthy emotional readings.

I don't believe you "lose your gift" if you charge - we all deserve a fair exchange of energy! but I do feel that if an individual becomes overly focused on making money from Tarot they will lose their perspective - which may, in some cases, amount to the same thing as losing the gift.

I augment my income with teaching and some consultation work, but for the most part I work because I love it and believe it has value for many.
feranaja

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Original post: Twilight Wolf

Ok, a question.

What do you think is a reasonable fee for a reading?

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Original post: ~ Serenity ~

I charge 125.00 (Canadian) but my sessions are two hours, involve multi-layered spreads, and I'm drawing on thirty years of tarot study, training and experience as well as University study of both religion and psych, and training in both Witchcraft and ritual magic. I do comprehensive and very analytical sessions. I'll also turn the clock on and do shorter sessions for a lower amount if people find the fee prohibitive. I want to attract clients who are invested in working with me in an ongoing fashion (I have some people who have been coming for 16 years now) and who are open to incorporating dreamwork and other related areas into the sessions, not people who want a quick fix for some problem or other, so charging a decent fee excludes the thrill seekers.It also advertises my level of experience, as it would seem a lot of money for a beginner to ask.

I charge my weekly students 10.00 for each class, so it's affordable for them; I love to encourage the enthusiastic learner. Daylong seminars I charge usually 90.00 for the day, 125.00 if I've had to travel.

I think the fee should reflect the intesnity and duration of the session as well as the level of training and experiece of the consultant. A good starting place is 50.00 for an hour, imo. I was at one point charging 75.00 for one hour and foudn I was always going way over time and people would offer to pay for another hour, so given my type of clientele, the 125.00 is actually a good deal for the two hours.


feranaja

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Original post: Baphmetis

Thanks for the replies everyone.

[QUOTE=Dracophoenix]. Some people will tell you you'll lose your abilities if your paid.[/QUOTE]
:-? The reasoning behind this is?

A question:

How do you deal with customers who turn up to take the mickey? Feranaja's post about the people who show up to see "how psychic" she is made me think some more on that.
And does it happen often?

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: ~ Serenity ~

Hi Baphmetis,

In my experience it happened a lot when I was working at a local Occult Shop, taking walk-ins. That could be difficult, not knowing who was coming in or what they really wanted. These days I screen clients carefully. If you work in a store or God forbid, at a Psychic Fair, you'll encounter quite a few thrill seekers. The won't discuss anything with you,want to know how many children their second cousin has and what their astrological signs are; if you can't tell them, you're a fraud. At the Shop, I used to explain to people that Tarot is an art which includes but is not limited to divination; specific details are far less important that larger internal trends which, when exposed and udnerstood, empower the indivdual to make intelligent choices about their future. I'd explain that the future is not so much written in stone as it is tied to the eventualities imposed on it by our own previous actions and choices. Etc etc. Some would walk out muttering that a "real" psychic" wouldn't have to ask them why they had come, others would sort of tentatively decide to listen, and a small but significant portion - well, you could see this light bulb go off in their brain and they'd start eagerly asking more quetsions. Many of this last group of people - the ones with intellectual as well as spiritula hunger - are clients (and friends) of mine to this day, though I last worked in public in 1995.

As with anything, you sort the wheat from the chaff...
the only way I can handle those people - skeptics, naysayers - is to just let it roll off me. that took me a long time to learn and honestly, I've learned it more from my work with dogs than I did with tarot. When people come to a seminar and scoff about natural diet etc it has no effect at all on me because I know - I absolutely know the value of good diet, limting toxin exposure, a happy emotional state. So the hecklers and naysayers strike me as belligerent imbeciles for the most part. If I'm challenged in a respectful way, on anything I'm knowledgable about - no problem, I'm well able to defend my position. But when a person shows up to have a reading, and they start snorting about "psychism" it's just not worth the time or money. My knowedge is precious and so is my self esteem; I simply show them the door.

So in a nutshell, I cope with difficult customers by 1) screening clients so i know I am what they're looking for, and 2) just ending the session nicely if they appear to want something other than what we agreed on.

Good luck! You can cry on my shoulder anytime.
fera

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Rick

[QUOTE=Baphmetis]Thanks for the replies everyone.
[QUOTE=Dracophoenix]Some people will tell you you'll lose your abilities if your paid.[/QUOTE]The reasoning behind this is?[/QUOTE]It's that new-age-white-light-fluffy-bunny-holier-than-thou crowd that says you can't charge for knowledge. Hell, I don't charge for knowledge or experience... I charge for my time, generally about $25(US) for about 15-20 minutes. In my state, "fortunetelling for any form of compensation" is illegal. I am an ordained minister, registered through the state (I have performed legal marriages), & I offer 'spiritual counseling' rather than 'psychic readings'. If I use runes during my spiritual counseling, well, it's freedom of religion.

[QUOTE=Baphmetis]A question:
How do you deal with customers who turn up to take the mickey? Feranaja's post about the people who show up to see "how psychic" she is made me think some more on that.
And does it happen often?[/QUOTE]*Pfft* I just dazzle 'em

I actually prefer clients that I CAN solve all their problems in one session. For me, the problem clients are the ones that call me first thing in the morning & last thing before bedtime with "I just have one little question"... personally, I don't want 'hangers-on' or 'groupies' (not trying to imply that Faranaja or anyone else that has posted here has said they do). The ones that wanna know how "psychic" I am are the EASY ones. And I don't have any problem reading for the 'quiet' types, either. I DO have a problem with people that wanna do the reading for me. I've gone so far as to hand back their money & tell 'em to go home & read for themselves, 'cuz they weren't listening to anything I was saying.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Baphmetis

Thanks again for the replies. I think if I were in a situation where someone turned up to have a laugh at my expense or expose me as a crank, I would just hand them their money back and tell them to sod off. Or lie and tell them they are going to die of a painful terminal illness very soon, that their partner is cheating on them, or something along those lines. I guess I'm sadistic like that.

So in a nutshell, I cope with difficult customers by 1) screening clients so i know I am what they're looking for

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but how do you screen your clients? Is it simply a matter of asking the right questions? Or do you take other factors into account, like their body language, etc?

Good luck! You can cry on my shoulder anytime.
fera

Thanks! Although I can't see it happening in the near future.

I would have asked something about tax and self-employment issues, but since you guys don't appear to be operating in the UK, I'll leave it.

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Original post: Nalyd23

I don't do this but I know others who do but they own an occult shop so that would be stable part of their income. However, judging by how much they, and guest readers that they have in their store, charge for a basic tarot reading and how booked up with clients they always are I can see it making you a living by itself. Mind you, they have other classes and gatherings/discussion groups there almost nightly and the classes are fairly expensive and usually full and the discussion groups usually ask for donations. There is a lot of money to be made in the occult business if you want to go that route and are willing to do these things for others.

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Original post: ~ Serenity ~

[QUOTE=Baphmetis]

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but how do you screen your clients? Is it simply a matter of asking the right questions? Or do you take other factors into account, like their body language, etc?


[/QUOTE]
Hi baphmetis,

I screen them buy asking a series of questions. It basically goes:

1) What are you looking for from a reading at this time, what do you hope to gain from the session?
2) What are your past experiences, if any, with Tarot?
3) What are your beliefs regarding free will vs determinism?

I don't do this in a sequence or anything, just pop the questions in and let my impressions develop.


I can't work with people who want their fortunes told, or some sort of psychic sideshow, so i just don't. Asking a few key questions enables me to say "sure, I can see you next Tuesday at 2 pm" or else, "I have a friend who I feel is better suited to your needs".:twisted:

fera

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Original post: Baphmetis

Thanks for the reply:

[QUOTE=feranaja]I can't work with people who want their fortunes told[/QUOTE]
I would have thought that this type of person would make up the majority of your customers, surely?

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Original post: ~ Serenity ~

[QUOTE=Baphmetis]Thanks for the reply:


I would have thought that this type of person would make up the majority of your customers, surely?[/QUOTE]
No not at all Bp. These days I only work with clients who already have a sophisticated understanding of the tarot. in my public days I dealt with tons of these people and it made me physically ill. Professional tarot is a small enterprise for me now. And I see to it that its' a rewarding one, personally if not monetarily.

fera

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Original post: WindigoXXVIII

[QUOTE=Dracophoenix]Some people can't do proffessional readings without negative consequences. However not everybody is like that.[/QUOTE]
This is true, that is why gypsies have superstitions and insist on "passing the silver" which means there must always be some metal money exchanged. if they pay by bills or credit, add a dime or quarter to the price. For some, not to do this brings bad luck.

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Original post: WindigoXXVIII

I am also interested in reading for others professionally, but am divided. I mostly want to improve myself by doing so and help others, spiritually and in other mundane areas. But at the same time I dont think most people really appreciate that, like as feranaga experienced. My mother believes in the gypsy approach.....tell them what they wanna hear since its 'for entertainment purposes only'; and save the real readings for those who really want clearer understanding. I said that i dont want to be a fraud or con woman, but she insists that gyspies dont see it like that because it is part of the tradition of carnivals and 'fluff'.
so i wonder. are all customers equal? feranaga, you dont seem to think they are if you have cut out the fortune seekers and deal with only screened clients. I just wonder, if being "just entertainment" is something worthwhile. it might bypass some frustrations that feranaga experienced when dealing with them.

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Original post: ~ Serenity ~

Hi windigo,

I don't regard the tarot as "for entertainment" at all and I don't see psychism as playing a major role in an individual's ability to learn it. For me it's a tool I use in spiritual counseling and I'm just very discerning about using it these days. I've seen others who use a lighter approach do very well, it just isn't for me.
fera

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Original post: Baphmetis

Sorry for dragging this up again, but one more question: How much experience should you acquire in reading the tarot before takign it up professionally?

Thanks.

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Original post: ~ Serenity ~

[QUOTE=Baphmetis]Sorry for dragging this up again, but one more question: How much experience should you acquire in reading the tarot before takign it up professionally?

Thanks.[/QUOTE]Excellent question and one i wish more people would ask...

Now, I can't put a timeframe on it because there is sucha range in how rapidly individuals develop.
I've had students who were proficient if not adept, after two years of regular study,and others who have "studied" for 15 years and still aren't quiiiite sure what the meanings are of all the cards. (Yowza). It goes without saying that a full fluency in all cards, upright and reversed is a bare bones prerequisite for even considering reading for others. i know it might sound pretty obvious, but I'm laying it all out here, so there you go.

Now, reading is much more than memorizing meanings as we all appreciate.

My personal feeling is that the student should have set up practise readings - for herself, for volunteers who knew full well this was a practise exercise - and recorded them, tested them against events, and developed not only a textbook understanding but a personal language, a rapport with the cards, for a minimum of two years before hanging out a shingle. And this is VERY generous, with most people it's more like four or five years. Again , how quickly a student progresses into a fluent and knowedgable reader who is capable of taking the responsibility of working with another person, is based on the combination of raw ability plus dedication and practise. It's very true that once that line is crossed and the student starts to read professionally, progress comes at a much more rapid pace. But the practitioner needs to be very competent before starting to read; to be blunt, I also feel the individual should have undertaken a fair bit of training in order to have an advanced degree of self knowledge before they start reading, or else their personal biases will colour their interpretations and no matter how much tarot lore they've stuffed into their heads, they won't be a good reader at all (and may even damage others).

This is tough becasue everyoen THINKS they possess great amounts of self knowledge, even some of the most self deluded people wlkling this earth believe that about themselves. It's usually a good sign of the person can say "I know some levels, but there is so much more I have yet to explore" - self-honesty inspires a lot more confidence for me than the individual who proclaims their Ipsissimus what-have-you...if you catch my drift.

In simple terms, if you have (for example)racist tendencies, NOW is the time to admit that to yourself and work through them. If you have small town class attitudes, despite how distasteful that will be to admit, you need to admit it and get working on it! I had to stare down all sorts of personal biases, especially about arrogant pretentious pseudo intellectuals, the rich and so on, when I started reading. Your personal biases have GOT to be conscious and well in hand before you hang out a shingle. At the very least you need to be able to "change consciousness at will" and shelf these attitudes when you're reading for a client. YOu're not there to judge or advise like a friend having coffee, you're there to interpret the cards. And you can't do that clearly at all if some attitude is interefering. If a person bothers you for whatever reason you MUST decline the session even if it means faking illness. but with adequate personal preparation you shouldn't find yourself in this situation. You should meet all clients on a common ground of humanity that knows no distinction between race, colour, education, class background or religion. I can't stress this enough, along with full fluency in the symbols of your chosen deck. These are the basics, for me.

I hope this helps Baphmetis, and please feel free to grill me more if you so desire.It is far more about deep and confident knowledge, integrity and the mastery of making yourself neutral during the reading, than it is about always "being right", at least in my opinion these are the prerequisites.
fera

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Original post: Dracophoenix

[QUOTE=Baphmetis]Sorry for dragging this up again, but one more question: How much experience should you acquire in reading the tarot before takign it up professionally?

Thanks.[/QUOTE]

It depends on the individual. I had a roomate years ago who did phone readings with her tarot cards. She'd still look at the book or ask me questions to interpret her readings. However by doing phone readings it taught her to know her tarot deck much better. That worked for her. Somebody else might say you shouldn't do any type of readings before really knowing your deck. Knowing it well enough that you don't need a book there to help you interpret a reading I'd say when you feel comfortable and confident in your own abilities to do readings the amount of time you've used you're cards matters not.

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Original post: Baphmetis

Fera & Draco: Thanks alot for your replies. I meant to reply to this sooner but I have only just had the time to read your posts.

Your replies confirmed in my mind that this isn't the sort of thing that any idiot with book of interpretations could take up professionally after a few weeks.

I'm still in the process of learning myself. I have been teaching myself through the lessons on www.learntarot.com. So far, my results have been encouraging, and I'm still going to read the tarot even though years of practice may be involved if I'm ever going to take this up professionally.

[QUOTE=feranaja] I also feel the individual should have undertaken a fair bit of training in order to have an advanced degree of self knowledge before they start reading, or else their personal biases will colour their interpretations and no matter how much tarot lore they've stuffed into their heads, they won't be a good reader at all (and may even damage others).[/quote]
What kind of training do you mean? Do you mean work in a group with a teacher involved? If so, then I'm screwed.

And as for personal biases in readings, I alway thought that a degree of personal bias would enter into any reading - when you study tarot, or any divination system, the symbols that crop up tend to be associated with personal experiences. Is this what you meant?

Again, thanks alot.

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Original post: Dracophoenix

Your welcome

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Original post: Moonshine

Just wanted to say this : Keep your day job if you can... I am a Software Engineer by profession but I also do Psychic and Tarot readings for free. To earn as much as my 8 hour per day job pays me per month, I'll have to do 10-15 readings per day and that means I am going to faint at the end of the day! Maybe I don't have that kind of stamina, even after grounding etc.

Besides, a day job takes the pressure off of me when I am doingreadings because I know I am not doing the readings for sustainance. This makes me more concentrated on the client and their problems instead of on my financial worries..

Just my 2 cents.. Maybe I am the insecure type.. I would love to do readings full-time but the thought of not having a day job to support me financially is terrible.

Best wishes,
Moonshine

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Original post: Dracophoenix

I think it has to with partly where you live as well. When I lived in LA and NYC I'd work throughout the week making excellent money as a proffessional reader However living in Cleveland even if you were the Oracle of Delphi you'd still need to have another job just to make a living and doing readings proffessionally would just be pocket cash.