A (few) question(s)

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Zayd Zaka'

Let me begin this topic by first saying hello to you all:

Hello.



Now that I have that out of the way,



I've spent the last couple of years studying astronomy off and on and I feel as though I have a solid foundation in the science, but lack of a higher education leaves me at that. Whenever I'm not working, I'm usually found researching. I've also dabbled a little in the occult and the belief systems thereof. My keen interest in astronomy leads me to astrology every once and a while. Whether it be in a magazine, book, or person (I often hear, "So, I hear you're into astrology.") I end up hearing about it. A friend of mine purchased a beginners book for astrology and showed it to me. Upon browsing the book, I found it to be utter nonsense. The author bashed astronomy and everything for which it stands, then made arguments to support his claims but failed to base them on facts. Much to my horror, the friend later told me he thought it was a good book .



Everything above this line is irrelevant for this post, and I just thought I would add it for some insight.



Anyway, now that you know a little more about me,



I have a few questions for astrologers and I'd like to have them answered just so I can have a better understanding of the belief. I'm not sure how exactly my questions will come off so to avoid any confusion:

I'm not here to smite anyoneâ??s ideas or beliefs, who am I to say what is correct and what is not?

My only goal with this post/topic is to better understand that which I do not currently understand, not to disprove anything.

Finally, I'm very willing to accept the idea that the things I think I know about astrology are false. I might believe that astrologers follow a certain idea and be able to disprove the idea when in fact the source I got the information from is bogus.



First and foremost:



As I understand it, one's zodiacal sign is the constellation the sun was in at the time of birth. Newspapers and Yahoo!--and other sources I'm sure aren't reliable for astrology-related knowledge--tell me that my sign is Gemini when in fact the sun was in Taurus when I was born. Assuming that these sources were incorrect, I went to a local book store and flipped through some astrology books to find the dates just the same as the newspapers. Further research told me that the dates used by these sources for astrology were set a few thousand years ago and due to precession the sun is no longer in the same constellations on the same dates.

Now, my question is this:

How can one expect to follow astrology when there seems to be confusion with the dates (at least I'm confused :p)? If that question seems poorly phrased, it's because I'm trying to address the question without using certain words, so let me try again. Let's say I wanted to begin a life in astrology, how could I do this with the conflicting signs? Ah hell, I'll just say it:

How can astrology be accurate when the dates it is based on fail to apply in the modern sky? How could I progress in astrology as a Gemini when I'm in fact a Taurus? How does astrology deal with the precession of stars?



I mentioned earlier that I have several questions and I've only listed one and you've probably noticed that this post is quickly coming to an end. This is because I think it would be best to address one question at a time. I have a feeling that this question alone will be enough to discuss and I'd like to avoid the confusion of 3-paged posts. So as my first post, I'll leave it as this with one final note (or two):



I browsed the topics posted in this section of the OF and I did not find any topics close to this one, so I posted it. If this question has already been answered and discussed: a thousand apologies. Should that be the case, a link would be greatly appreciated. Also, I have proof-read this post and I believe it is as I intended; however, I know how ineffective proof-reading can be when you proof-read right after you wrote. So if I was unclear with any part of my post, please ask and I shall try to expand on what I have said as soon as possible.



Thank you for your time,

-Zayd

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Dracophoenix

Astrology has been around for thousands of years. It wouldn't be around for such a long time if it were all bunk. First off you need a person's date, like Feb 4 1965. Then you need time of birth it's important to know either am or pm or you'll end up with an accuarate chart like 5:37 am. Finally you need the place of birth. State, province etc is very important as is the country where the person's born. Such as Stanford, Connecticut, USA. Now with the knowledge of the sky at that place time and day of birth you use that info to make a chart. With the correct info given an astrologer can make a very accurate chart.

Horoscopes are meant for entertainment since they are doing a gerenal reading with just the sun sign. They are NOT what astrology is all about. It's like saying fantasy children's books are what Barnes and Noble's all about when there is so much more that Banes and Noble has. If you want something accurate you'll have to go to an astrolger or use your birth info yourself to get an accurate reading from your chart.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Sud Ram

Zayd Zaka,

Tropical astrology (the western one that you see commonly) is indeed a few degrees off. It was established by Ptoleme in Egypt as he decided to keep a static reference chart for constellations and the zodiac. Tropical astrologers who are aware of this explain that the sighs are symbolic rather than actual connetions to the planetary positions. I personally find this confusing as they study actual transits for divination.

Sidereal and Vedic astrology on the other hand, use the actual positions of the constellations so in these systems you would indeed be a Taurus. When tropical astrology was established it was labelled Ayanmasa by the Vedic astrologers. Maybe you can look into the meaning of this

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Mairu

As amateur astronomer, you should know that constellations are no real anything: just figures we draw in the sky by jining dots (stars) with imaginary lines. Vedic (Indian) Astrology follows constellations but Western Astrology does not. Western Astrology is based in seasons and zodiacal signs are nothing but equal partitions of those seasons: natural months, very approximate to those that Revolutionary France used for some time. Just that they bear the name of constellations as concieved some thousands years ago.

All four cardinal signs: Aries, Cancer, Libra and Capricorn start at the exact moment of equinoxes and solstices. That's pretty astronomical to me. Also it makes a lot easier to translate astronomical data (measured as 360º starting from what Astrologers call te Aries point or 0º Aries, the exact place where the Sun is at the Spring equinox in the northern hemisphere) to astrological (measured equally but in groups of 30º or signs.

The mystery is why these strips of 30º are actually so different between them. But they are.

Hope to have cleared some of your confussion.

I tried to check your birthday to find out wether you have much Earth in your chart, normally a sign of pragmatism and skepticism (not always, as stars impel but do not compel) but couldn't see it. I have 5 planets in Virgo (one of the three Earthy signs and possibly the most skeptic one), so I used to be very skeptic... but eventually did as Newton: studied the matter and found (to my surprise and worry) that everybody around me seemed to reflect very well even something as generic as their Sun-signs.

I mean: my Gemini relatives are always hanged from the phone, while myself, who have a clear lack or Air in my chart plainly hate that "diabolic" invention and don't give any importance to chatting and gossiping. Just an example.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: azrael

this is such an interesting debate i urge you to investigate this subject further. but for starters you might want to read this one...http://www2.bitstream.net/~bunlion/bpi/precess.html (copy url)