Original post: [Gnostic]a+
MONTSEGUR DAY
This date, March 16, is called Montsegur Day in remembrance of the 13th century Gnostics in France, the Cathars or Albigensians. They were the first victims of the Inquisition and were persecuted greatly for their loving heresies. The Cathars made their final stand inside the mountain castle at Montsegur and more than 300 people were burned at the stake on March 16, 1244. Conservative historians estimate that at least 250,000 Cathars died in the persecutions. They were along the finest Christians and the best flowering of Gnosticism the world has ever known, and we remember our connection to them with a solemn Requiem Eucharist. This coincides with the somber Lenten observances.
via the Ecclessia Gnostica: http://www.gnosis.org
March 16th: Montsegur Day
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
March 16th: Montsegur Day
Original post: Space Debris
[QUOTE='[Gnostic]a+']They were along the finest Christians and the best flowering of Gnosticism the world has ever known[/QUOTE]Were Cathars truly "Gnostics," though? My impression has been that they were not, because if I'm not mistaken, in their view salvation was not the attainment of gnosis. Rather, they believed salvation required the performance of their "consolamentum" sacrament, which effected a "baptism of spirit." Knowledgeable people, please correct me if I'm wrong.
[QUOTE='[Gnostic]a+']They were along the finest Christians and the best flowering of Gnosticism the world has ever known[/QUOTE]Were Cathars truly "Gnostics," though? My impression has been that they were not, because if I'm not mistaken, in their view salvation was not the attainment of gnosis. Rather, they believed salvation required the performance of their "consolamentum" sacrament, which effected a "baptism of spirit." Knowledgeable people, please correct me if I'm wrong.
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
March 16th: Montsegur Day
Original post: [Gnostic]a+
during the consolamentum, the holy spirit was said to descend down into the recipicants body, and in doing so, the recipicant received gnosis during the ritual.
during the consolamentum, the holy spirit was said to descend down into the recipicants body, and in doing so, the recipicant received gnosis during the ritual.
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
March 16th: Montsegur Day
Original post: Space Debris
[QUOTE='[Gnostic]a+']during the consolamentum, the holy spirit was said to descend down into the recipicants body, and in doing so, the recipicant received gnosis during the ritual.[/QUOTE]On what do you base your assertion that the recipient of the consolamentum receives gnosis? Is there any surviving Cathar literature (or perhaps Catholic anti-Cathar writing) that shows the Cathars considered the reception of the Holy Spirit at the consolamentum to produce understanding of the kind that the Gnostics in antiquity viewed as salvific?
[QUOTE='[Gnostic]a+']during the consolamentum, the holy spirit was said to descend down into the recipicants body, and in doing so, the recipicant received gnosis during the ritual.[/QUOTE]On what do you base your assertion that the recipient of the consolamentum receives gnosis? Is there any surviving Cathar literature (or perhaps Catholic anti-Cathar writing) that shows the Cathars considered the reception of the Holy Spirit at the consolamentum to produce understanding of the kind that the Gnostics in antiquity viewed as salvific?
-
Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
- Posts: 287885
- Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:32 am
March 16th: Montsegur Day
Original post: pmcv
The salvation that Cathars recieved was based more on faith and practice. Catholics to this very day believe that gnosis brings a metenoia in which the direction to salvation is gained, but for Catholics it is not the Gnosis in and of itself that IS the salvation.... so Catholics are not "Gnostic" in spite of the fact that they believe "gnosis" is important.
The same is the case with the Cathars. They did not believe that this knowing was salvation. A person who had recieved the Consolamentum could loose that status based on praxis. An elect could become a hearer again and thus loose salvation because they did not maintain the praxis necessary for salvation. That is why they are not technically "Gnostic", but by modern scholors are often insted compared with Manichaeans (who are also not considered to be "Gnostic" by modern academicians for the same reasons).
PMCV
The salvation that Cathars recieved was based more on faith and practice. Catholics to this very day believe that gnosis brings a metenoia in which the direction to salvation is gained, but for Catholics it is not the Gnosis in and of itself that IS the salvation.... so Catholics are not "Gnostic" in spite of the fact that they believe "gnosis" is important.
The same is the case with the Cathars. They did not believe that this knowing was salvation. A person who had recieved the Consolamentum could loose that status based on praxis. An elect could become a hearer again and thus loose salvation because they did not maintain the praxis necessary for salvation. That is why they are not technically "Gnostic", but by modern scholors are often insted compared with Manichaeans (who are also not considered to be "Gnostic" by modern academicians for the same reasons).
PMCV