Original post: Asterion
it s a less known fact that the names of the genii described by Bardon in his Practice of Magical Evocation are in fact the names of aerial spirits in the book of Abramelin, subjected to such forces as Ashmoday, Astaroth, Magots, etc..
Yet Bardon claims they are benefic. Anyone worked with them to shed light upon this?
the 360 Bardon genii
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the 360 Bardon genii
Original post: MagiAwen
Contention in our midst!
Excuse me.. I'm quite excitable today.
You must have found Paul Allen's site, huh?
Thing is... without IIH, PME is pretty much useless. In fact... Bardon himself does state that it is better for the magician to aquaint themselves with the spirits on your own instead of relying on a grimoire. Without the practice of the first book...completion of #8, and active pursuing I would say that the second part of PME is pretty much useless.
You can actually entirely miss the point of PME (and probably IIH for that matter) if you have not truly completed IIH. Not just read it... completed it. I am not the only magician who says this so I feel comfortable in saying it.
Anyway the 360 spirits girdling the earth zone (sun sphere)...are based on fixed stars which make a loop through the zodiac.
And Agrippa's moon sphere are names corresponding to the moonstations and angels...which Bardon generally agrees.
To answer your question.. simply. djinn or jinn or geni..genius..can be also called demon...and not always was the word demon to mean something evil.
"1387 dæmon "spirit," from Gk. daimon (gen. daimonos) lesser god, guiding spirit, tutelary deity"
-Online Etymology Dictionary http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=demon
Actually the way we currently popularly utilize the word demon started around the 17th century.
Interestingly enough I find correlation with my claims and statements within the Catholic Encyclopedia...
"But though the word demon is now practically restricted to this sinister sense, it was otherwise with the earlier usage of the Greek writers. The word, which is apparently derived from daio "to divide" or "apportion", originally meant a divine being; it was occasionally applied to the higher gods and goddesses, but was more generally used to denote spiritual beings of a lower order coming between gods and men. For the most part these were beneficent beings, and their office was somewhat analogous to that of the angels in Christian theology."
http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=3751
Contention in our midst!
Excuse me.. I'm quite excitable today.
You must have found Paul Allen's site, huh?
Thing is... without IIH, PME is pretty much useless. In fact... Bardon himself does state that it is better for the magician to aquaint themselves with the spirits on your own instead of relying on a grimoire. Without the practice of the first book...completion of #8, and active pursuing I would say that the second part of PME is pretty much useless.
You can actually entirely miss the point of PME (and probably IIH for that matter) if you have not truly completed IIH. Not just read it... completed it. I am not the only magician who says this so I feel comfortable in saying it.
Anyway the 360 spirits girdling the earth zone (sun sphere)...are based on fixed stars which make a loop through the zodiac.
And Agrippa's moon sphere are names corresponding to the moonstations and angels...which Bardon generally agrees.
To answer your question.. simply. djinn or jinn or geni..genius..can be also called demon...and not always was the word demon to mean something evil.
"1387 dæmon "spirit," from Gk. daimon (gen. daimonos) lesser god, guiding spirit, tutelary deity"
-Online Etymology Dictionary http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=demon
Actually the way we currently popularly utilize the word demon started around the 17th century.
Interestingly enough I find correlation with my claims and statements within the Catholic Encyclopedia...
"But though the word demon is now practically restricted to this sinister sense, it was otherwise with the earlier usage of the Greek writers. The word, which is apparently derived from daio "to divide" or "apportion", originally meant a divine being; it was occasionally applied to the higher gods and goddesses, but was more generally used to denote spiritual beings of a lower order coming between gods and men. For the most part these were beneficent beings, and their office was somewhat analogous to that of the angels in Christian theology."
http://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=3751
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the 360 Bardon genii
Original post: Asterion
i know the demon daemon difference, but i don t think the word is employed in Abramelin..
And the importance of completing the 8 stages.. i just want to hear other s claims about them.
The Sun sphere is one thing, with the 45 (i believe) based on encrypted fixed stars, and the 360 genii of the Zone Girdling Earth, or the Circumterrestrial zone, Sublunar , or Aerial, is another thing, to my knowledge.
Plus the head of the sphere is Aschmunaday...
If in abramelin the genii were simply mentioned without their 8 heads , it would have been attributed to that demon-daimon thing, but Abramelin ( of wich Bardon clearly owned a copy) but therein it is stated
The Four Princes and Superior Spirits be:--
The Spirits common unto these Four Sub-Princes, namely:--
ORIENS.
PAIMON,
ARITON.
AMAIMON.
HOSEN.
SARAPH.
PROXOSOS.
HABHI.
ACUAR.
TIRANA.
ALLUPH.
NERCAMAY.
NILEN.
MOREL.
TRACI.
ENAIA.
MULACH.
MALUTENS.
IPARKAS.
NUDITON.
MELNA.
MELHAER.
RUACH.
APOLHUN.
SCHABUACH.
MERMO.
MELAMUD.
POTER.
SCHED.
EKDULON.
MANTIENS.
OBEDAMA.
SACHIEL.
MOSCHEL.
PEREUCH.
DECCAL.
ASPERIM.
KATINI.
TORFORA.
BADAD.
COELEN.
CHUSCHI.
TASMA.
PACHID.
PAREK.
RACHIAR.
NOGAR.
ADON.
TRAPIS.
NAGID.
ETHANIM.
PATID.
PAREHT.
EMPHASTISON.
PARASEH.
GEREVIL.
ELMIS.
ASMIEL.
IRMINON.
ASTUREL.
NUTHON.
LOMIOL.
IMINK.
PLIROK.
TAGNON.
PARMATUS.
IARESIN.
GORILON.
LIRION.
PLEGIT.
OGILEN.
TARADOS.
LOSIMON.
RAGARAS.
IGILON.
GOSEGAS.
ASTREGA.
PARUSUR.
IGIS.
AHEROM.
IGARAK.
GELOMA.
KILIK.
REMORON.
EKALIKE.
ISEKEL.
ELZEGAN.
IPAKOL.
HARIL.
KADOLON.
IOGION.
ZARAGIL.
IRRORON.
ILAGAS.
BALALOS.
OROIA.
LAGASUF.
ALAGAS.
ALPAS.
SOTERION.
ROMAGES.
PROMAKOS.
METAFEL.
DARASCON.
KELEN.
ERENUTES.
NAJIN.
TULOT.
PLATIEN.
ATLOTON.
AFARORP.
MORILEN.
RAMARATZ.
NOGEN.
MOLIN.
ORINEL.
TIMIRA.
DRAMAS.
AMALIN.
KIRIK.
BUBANA.
BUK.
RANER.
SEMLIN.
AMBOLIN,
ABUTES.
EXTERON.
LABOUX.
CORCARON.
ETHAN.p. 106
TARET.
DABLAT.
BURIUL. 1
OMAN.
CARASCH.
DIMURGOS.
ROGGIOL.
LORIOL.
ISIGI.
TIORON.
DAROKIN.
HORANAR
ABAHIN.
GOLEG.
GUAGAMON.
LAGINX.
ETALIZ.
AGEI.
LEMEL.
UDAMAN.
BIALOT.
GAGALOS.
RAGALIM.
FINAXOS.
AKANEF.
OMAGES.
AGRAX.
SAGARES.
AFRAY.
UGALES.
HERMIALA.
HALIGAX.
GUGONIX.
OPILM.
DAGULER.
PACHEI.
NIMALON.
AGIBOL.
RIGOLEN.
GRASEMIN.
ELAFON.
TRISAGA.
GAGALIN.
CLERACA.
ELATON.
PAFESLA.
MAGOG.
DIOPOS.
DISOLEL.
BIRIEL.
SIFON.
KELE.
MAGIROS.
SARTABAKIM.
LUNDO.
SOBE.
INOKOS.
MABAKIEL.
APOT.
OPUN.
CAMAL.
TOXAI.
KATARON.
RAX.
GONOGIN.
SCHELAGON.
GINAR.
ISIAMON.
BAHAL.
DAREK.
ISCHIGAS.
GOLEN.
GROMENIS.
RIGIOS.
NIMERIX.
HERG.
ARGILON.
OKIRI.
FAGANI.
HIPOLOS.
ILESON.
CAMONIX.
BAFAMAL.
ALAN.
APORMENOS.
OMBALAT.
QUARTAS.
UGIRPEN.
ARAEX.
LEPACA.
KOLOFE.
p. 107
These be those of
KATOLIN.
LUESAF.
MASAUB.
URIGO.
FATURAB.
FERSEBUS.
BARUEL.
UBARIN.
BUTARAB.
ISCHIRON.
ODAX.
ROLER.
AROTOR.
HEMIS.
ARPIRON.
ARRABIN.
SUPIPAS.
FORTESON.
DULID.
SORRIOLENEN.
MEGALAK.
ANAGOTOS.
SIKASTIN.
PETUNOF
MANTAN.
MEKLBOC.
TIGRAFON.
TAGORA.
DEBAM.
TIRAIM.
IRIX.
MADAIL.
ABAGIRON.
PANDOLI.
NENISEM.
COBEL.
SOBEL.
LABONETON.
ARIOTH.
MARAG.
KAMUSIL.
KAITAR.
SCHARAK.
MAISADUL.
AGILAS.
KOLAM.
KILIGIL.
CORODON.
HEPOGON.
DAGLAS.
HAGION.
EGAKIREH.
PARAMOR.
OLISERMON.
RIMOG.
HORMINOS.
HAGOG.
MIMOSA.
AMCHISON.
ILARAX.
MAKALOS.
LOCATER.
COLVAM.
BATTERNIS.
ORMION.
PRECHES.
MAGGID.
SCLAVAK.
MEBBESSER.
BACARON.
HOLBA.
HIFARION.
GILARION.
ENIURI.
ABADIR.
SBARIONAT.
UTIFA.
OMET.
SARRA.
AMATIA.
BILIFARES.
LAMARION.
DIRALISEN.
LICANEN.
DIMIRAG.
ELPONEN.
ERGAMEN.
GOTIFAN.
NIMORUP.
CARELENA.
LAMALON.
IGURIM.
AKIUM.
DORAK.
TACHAN.
IKONOK.
KEMAL.
BILICO.
TROMES.
BALFORI.
AROLEN.
LIROCHI.
NOMINON.
IAMAI.
AROGOR.
HOLASTRI. p. 108
HACAMULI.
SAMALO.
PLISON.
RADERAF.
BOROL.
1SOROSMA.
CORILON.
GRAMON.
MAGALAST.
ZAGALO.
PELLIPIS.
NATALIS.
NAMIROS.
ADIRAEL.
KABADA.
KIPOKIS.
ORGOSIL.
ARCON.
AMBOLÃ?N.
LAMOLON.
BILIFOR.
GASARONS.
2SOROSMA.
TURITEL.
BALAKEN.
GAGISON.
MAFALAC.
AGAB.
AGAFALI.
DISON.
ACHANIEL.
SUDORON.
KABERSA.
EBARON.
ZALANES.
UGOLA.
CAME.
ROFFLES.
MENOLIK.
TACAROS.
ASTOLIT.
RUKUM.
EKOROK.
SIBOLAS.
SARIS.
SEKABIN.
CAROMOS.
ROSARAN.
SAPASON.
NOTISER.
FLAXON.
HAROMBRUB.
MEGALOSIN.
MILIOM.
ILEMLIS.
GALAK.
ANDROCOS.
MARANTON.
CARON.
REGINON.
ELERION.
SERMEOT.
IRMENOS.
p. 109
These be those of
RAMISON.
SCRILIS.
BURIOL.
TARALIM.
BURASEN.
AKESOLI.
EREKIA.
ILLIRIKIM.
LABISI.
AKOROS.
MAMES.
GLESI.
VISION.
EFFRIGIS.
APELKI.
DALEP.
DRESOP.
HERGOTIS.
NILIMA.
= 111
Ashtaroth and Asmodeus
= 53
Amaymon and Ariton
= 10
Asmodeus and Magoth
= 15
Ashtaroth
= 32
Magoth and Koré
= 65
Asmodeus
= 16
Beelzebub
= 49
Oriens
= 8
Paymon
= 15
Ariton
= 22
Amaymon
= 20
Total of Names of Servient Spirits
= 316
i know the demon daemon difference, but i don t think the word is employed in Abramelin..
And the importance of completing the 8 stages.. i just want to hear other s claims about them.
The Sun sphere is one thing, with the 45 (i believe) based on encrypted fixed stars, and the 360 genii of the Zone Girdling Earth, or the Circumterrestrial zone, Sublunar , or Aerial, is another thing, to my knowledge.
Plus the head of the sphere is Aschmunaday...
If in abramelin the genii were simply mentioned without their 8 heads , it would have been attributed to that demon-daimon thing, but Abramelin ( of wich Bardon clearly owned a copy) but therein it is stated
The Four Princes and Superior Spirits be:--
LUCIFER.
LEVIATAN.
SATAN.
BELIAL.
The Eight Sub-Princes be:--
LEVIATAN.
SATAN.
BELIAL.
ASTAROT.
MAGOT.
ASMODEE.
BELZEBUD.
ORIENS.
PAIMON.
ARITON.
AMAIMON.
p. 105MAGOT.
ASMODEE.
BELZEBUD.
ORIENS.
PAIMON.
ARITON.
AMAIMON.
The Spirits common unto these Four Sub-Princes, namely:--
ORIENS.
PAIMON,
ARITON.
AMAIMON.
HOSEN.
SARAPH.
PROXOSOS.
HABHI.
ACUAR.
TIRANA.
ALLUPH.
NERCAMAY.
NILEN.
MOREL.
TRACI.
ENAIA.
MULACH.
MALUTENS.
IPARKAS.
NUDITON.
MELNA.
MELHAER.
RUACH.
APOLHUN.
SCHABUACH.
MERMO.
MELAMUD.
POTER.
SCHED.
EKDULON.
MANTIENS.
OBEDAMA.
SACHIEL.
MOSCHEL.
PEREUCH.
DECCAL.
ASPERIM.
KATINI.
TORFORA.
BADAD.
COELEN.
CHUSCHI.
TASMA.
PACHID.
PAREK.
RACHIAR.
NOGAR.
ADON.
TRAPIS.
NAGID.
ETHANIM.
PATID.
PAREHT.
EMPHASTISON.
PARASEH.
GEREVIL.
ELMIS.
ASMIEL.
IRMINON.
ASTUREL.
NUTHON.
LOMIOL.
IMINK.
PLIROK.
TAGNON.
PARMATUS.
IARESIN.
GORILON.
LIRION.
PLEGIT.
OGILEN.
TARADOS.
LOSIMON.
RAGARAS.
IGILON.
GOSEGAS.
ASTREGA.
PARUSUR.
IGIS.
AHEROM.
IGARAK.
GELOMA.
KILIK.
REMORON.
EKALIKE.
ISEKEL.
ELZEGAN.
IPAKOL.
HARIL.
KADOLON.
IOGION.
ZARAGIL.
IRRORON.
ILAGAS.
BALALOS.
OROIA.
LAGASUF.
ALAGAS.
ALPAS.
SOTERION.
ROMAGES.
PROMAKOS.
METAFEL.
DARASCON.
KELEN.
ERENUTES.
NAJIN.
TULOT.
PLATIEN.
ATLOTON.
AFARORP.
MORILEN.
RAMARATZ.
NOGEN.
MOLIN.
(= 111 Spirits Servient.)
These be the Spirits common unto
ASTAROT and ASMODEE,
viz.:--
AMANIEL.ORINEL.
TIMIRA.
DRAMAS.
AMALIN.
KIRIK.
BUBANA.
BUK.
RANER.
SEMLIN.
AMBOLIN,
ABUTES.
EXTERON.
LABOUX.
CORCARON.
ETHAN.p. 106
TARET.
DABLAT.
BURIUL. 1
OMAN.
CARASCH.
DIMURGOS.
ROGGIOL.
LORIOL.
ISIGI.
TIORON.
DAROKIN.
HORANAR
ABAHIN.
GOLEG.
GUAGAMON.
LAGINX.
ETALIZ.
AGEI.
LEMEL.
UDAMAN.
BIALOT.
GAGALOS.
RAGALIM.
FINAXOS.
AKANEF.
OMAGES.
AGRAX.
SAGARES.
AFRAY.
UGALES.
HERMIALA.
HALIGAX.
GUGONIX.
OPILM.
DAGULER.
PACHEI.
NIMALON.
(= 53 Spirits Servient.)
These be the Spirits common unto
AMAIMON and ARITON,
viz.:--
HAUGES.AGIBOL.
RIGOLEN.
GRASEMIN.
ELAFON.
TRISAGA.
GAGALIN.
CLERACA.
ELATON.
PAFESLA.
(= 10 Spirits Servient.)
These be the Spirits in common between
ASMODEE and MAGOT,
viz.:--
TOUN.MAGOG.
DIOPOS.
DISOLEL.
BIRIEL.
SIFON.
KELE.
MAGIROS.
SARTABAKIM.
LUNDO.
SOBE.
INOKOS.
MABAKIEL.
APOT.
OPUN.
(= 15 Spirits Servient.)
The following be those of
ASTAROT,
viz.:--
AMAN.CAMAL.
TOXAI.
KATARON.
RAX.
GONOGIN.
SCHELAGON.
GINAR.
ISIAMON.
BAHAL.
DAREK.
ISCHIGAS.
GOLEN.
GROMENIS.
RIGIOS.
NIMERIX.
HERG.
ARGILON.
OKIRI.
FAGANI.
HIPOLOS.
ILESON.
CAMONIX.
BAFAMAL.
ALAN.
APORMENOS.
OMBALAT.
QUARTAS.
UGIRPEN.
ARAEX.
LEPACA.
KOLOFE.
(= 32 Spirits Servient.)
p. 107
These be those of
MAGOT and KORE,
viz.:--
NACHERAN.KATOLIN.
LUESAF.
MASAUB.
URIGO.
FATURAB.
FERSEBUS.
BARUEL.
UBARIN.
BUTARAB.
ISCHIRON.
ODAX.
ROLER.
AROTOR.
HEMIS.
ARPIRON.
ARRABIN.
SUPIPAS.
FORTESON.
DULID.
SORRIOLENEN.
MEGALAK.
ANAGOTOS.
SIKASTIN.
PETUNOF
MANTAN.
MEKLBOC.
TIGRAFON.
TAGORA.
DEBAM.
TIRAIM.
IRIX.
MADAIL.
ABAGIRON.
PANDOLI.
NENISEM.
COBEL.
SOBEL.
LABONETON.
ARIOTH.
MARAG.
KAMUSIL.
KAITAR.
SCHARAK.
MAISADUL.
AGILAS.
KOLAM.
KILIGIL.
CORODON.
HEPOGON.
DAGLAS.
HAGION.
EGAKIREH.
PARAMOR.
OLISERMON.
RIMOG.
HORMINOS.
HAGOG.
MIMOSA.
AMCHISON.
ILARAX.
MAKALOS.
LOCATER.
COLVAM.
BATTERNIS.
(= 65 Spirits Servient.)
Those of
ASMODEE
be:--
ONEI.ORMION.
PRECHES.
MAGGID.
SCLAVAK.
MEBBESSER.
BACARON.
HOLBA.
HIFARION.
GILARION.
ENIURI.
ABADIR.
SBARIONAT.
UTIFA.
OMET.
SARRA.
(= 16 Spirits Servient.)
These be those of
BELZEBUD,
viz.:--
ALCANOR.AMATIA.
BILIFARES.
LAMARION.
DIRALISEN.
LICANEN.
DIMIRAG.
ELPONEN.
ERGAMEN.
GOTIFAN.
NIMORUP.
CARELENA.
LAMALON.
IGURIM.
AKIUM.
DORAK.
TACHAN.
IKONOK.
KEMAL.
BILICO.
TROMES.
BALFORI.
AROLEN.
LIROCHI.
NOMINON.
IAMAI.
AROGOR.
HOLASTRI. p. 108
HACAMULI.
SAMALO.
PLISON.
RADERAF.
BOROL.
1SOROSMA.
CORILON.
GRAMON.
MAGALAST.
ZAGALO.
PELLIPIS.
NATALIS.
NAMIROS.
ADIRAEL.
KABADA.
KIPOKIS.
ORGOSIL.
ARCON.
AMBOLÃ?N.
LAMOLON.
BILIFOR.
(= 49 Spirits Servient.)
These be of
ORIENS,
viz.:--
SARISEL.GASARONS.
2SOROSMA.
TURITEL.
BALAKEN.
GAGISON.
MAFALAC.
AGAB.
(= 8 Spirits Servient.)
These be of
PAIMON,
viz.:--
AGLAFOS.AGAFALI.
DISON.
ACHANIEL.
SUDORON.
KABERSA.
EBARON.
ZALANES.
UGOLA.
CAME.
ROFFLES.
MENOLIK.
TACAROS.
ASTOLIT.
RUKUM.
(= 15 Spirits Servient.)
These be of
ARITON,
viz.:--
ANADER.EKOROK.
SIBOLAS.
SARIS.
SEKABIN.
CAROMOS.
ROSARAN.
SAPASON.
NOTISER.
FLAXON.
HAROMBRUB.
MEGALOSIN.
MILIOM.
ILEMLIS.
GALAK.
ANDROCOS.
MARANTON.
CARON.
REGINON.
ELERION.
SERMEOT.
IRMENOS.
(= 22 Spirits Servient.)
p. 109
These be those of
AMAIMON,
viz.:--
ROMEROC.RAMISON.
SCRILIS.
BURIOL.
TARALIM.
BURASEN.
AKESOLI.
EREKIA.
ILLIRIKIM.
LABISI.
AKOROS.
MAMES.
GLESI.
VISION.
EFFRIGIS.
APELKI.
DALEP.
DRESOP.
HERGOTIS.
NILIMA.
(= 20 Spirits Servient.)
[size=-1]UNDER WHAT RULERS[/size].
[size=-1]TOTAL OF SPIRITS SERVIENT[/size].
Oriens, Paimon, Ariton, Amaymon= 111
Ashtaroth and Asmodeus
= 53
Amaymon and Ariton
= 10
Asmodeus and Magoth
= 15
Ashtaroth
= 32
Magoth and Koré
= 65
Asmodeus
= 16
Beelzebub
= 49
Oriens
= 8
Paymon
= 15
Ariton
= 22
Amaymon
= 20
Total of Names of Servient Spirits
= 316
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Occult Forum Archive
- Magister
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the 360 Bardon genii
Original post: MagiAwen
Maybe we are both confused. Though I'm pretty sure I said something out of order...with the sun sphere...yeah got that mixed up in there...sorry about that. I told you I am excitable today.
Here is a handy table showing Bardon vs. Abramelin as far as the 360 goes. The complete table of the 360 comparison is down toward the bottom of the page.
http://www.geocities.com/franzbardon/stejnar.html
(oh sure. Now the link is temporarily down...figures...but the names you listed and this table of comparisson are different....so basically I am totally confused now as to what the hell you are talking about...since it is obvious we are talking about two different things...or at least have two different understandings)
Anywhoo.. I have not worked with all 360 of Bardon's...but I have worked with some and so far none have been "evil demons".
Maybe we are both confused. Though I'm pretty sure I said something out of order...with the sun sphere...yeah got that mixed up in there...sorry about that. I told you I am excitable today.
Here is a handy table showing Bardon vs. Abramelin as far as the 360 goes. The complete table of the 360 comparison is down toward the bottom of the page.
http://www.geocities.com/franzbardon/stejnar.html
(oh sure. Now the link is temporarily down...figures...but the names you listed and this table of comparisson are different....so basically I am totally confused now as to what the hell you are talking about...since it is obvious we are talking about two different things...or at least have two different understandings)
Anywhoo.. I have not worked with all 360 of Bardon's...but I have worked with some and so far none have been "evil demons".
-
Occult Forum Archive
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the 360 Bardon genii
Original post: Asterion
yup, thats the one, Emil Steijnar s page.
you said:
Anyway the 360 spirits girdling the earth zone (sun sphere)...are based on fixed stars which make a loop through the zodiac.
The sun sphere has an entirely different hierarchy, lead by Mettatron Master of the sun sphere.
There are 45 genii, derived from fixed stars:
Emnasut, Dubeh, Teras, Dubezh, etc (pages 298+304)
The Earth zone, called by traditional authors Sublunar, or the Zone girdling Earth, is headed by Aschmunadai, ranked as Absolute Monarch (PME, page 156). Sorry to say, but Aschmunaday is the Persian name of what later became the talmudic Ashmoday or Asmodai, Asmodeus, a demon described in the Goetia also...
Those 360 spirits , starting with Morech, Malacha, Ecdulon, Lurchi, Aspadit etc, do correspond with Abramelin s Morech , Malach, Eckdulon , etc etc.
yup, thats the one, Emil Steijnar s page.
you said:
Anyway the 360 spirits girdling the earth zone (sun sphere)...are based on fixed stars which make a loop through the zodiac.
The sun sphere has an entirely different hierarchy, lead by Mettatron Master of the sun sphere.
There are 45 genii, derived from fixed stars:
Emnasut, Dubeh, Teras, Dubezh, etc (pages 298+304)
The Earth zone, called by traditional authors Sublunar, or the Zone girdling Earth, is headed by Aschmunadai, ranked as Absolute Monarch (PME, page 156). Sorry to say, but Aschmunaday is the Persian name of what later became the talmudic Ashmoday or Asmodai, Asmodeus, a demon described in the Goetia also...
Those 360 spirits , starting with Morech, Malacha, Ecdulon, Lurchi, Aspadit etc, do correspond with Abramelin s Morech , Malach, Eckdulon , etc etc.
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the 360 Bardon genii
Original post: Asterion
i really don t wantto step on anybody s toes, and certainly nut want to upset anyone, i m just trying to find out if there are blinds in Bordon s work, and if someone worked around those blinds...
i really don t wantto step on anybody s toes, and certainly nut want to upset anyone, i m just trying to find out if there are blinds in Bordon s work, and if someone worked around those blinds...
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the 360 Bardon genii
Original post: MagiAwen
I just admitted I mis-spoke (mistyped) earlier about the sun sphere stuff..... what more do you want?
Ok I understand what you mean now...although he does not list them as the 360... he lists them as "some original intelligences of the earth zone."
Anyways.. I am aware of the correspondences of the name thing in that "section".
I'm still saying that in Bardon's system I have yet to get onto things that are inherently evil. For that matter.. in my exploration of the Goetia so far I have yet to really be convinced that any of them are also inherently "evil".
Bardon also does not really put a hierarchy upon the "original intelligences of the earth zone..etc"... if you read also on the same page you quoted... these are some intelligences that he personally has had contact with.. it is not an exhaustive nor all inclusive list.
Meh. This is why PME should not be treated as a stand alone.
There really are not blinds in Bardon's work...but it's more than just a read it and do it sort of thing...there is much more hidden value.. even in the supposed errors people have found.
Asterion wrote:yup, thats the one, Emil Steijnar s page.
you said:
Anyway the 360 spirits girdling the earth zone (sun sphere)...are based on fixed stars which make a loop through the zodiac.
The sun sphere has an entirely different hierarchy, lead by Mettatron Master of the sun sphere.
I just admitted I mis-spoke (mistyped) earlier about the sun sphere stuff..... what more do you want?
Asterion wrote: The Earth zone, called by traditional authors Sublunar, or the Zone girdling Earth, is headed by Aschmunadai, ranked as Absolute Monarch (PME, page 156).
Ok I understand what you mean now...although he does not list them as the 360... he lists them as "some original intelligences of the earth zone."
Anyways.. I am aware of the correspondences of the name thing in that "section".
I'm still saying that in Bardon's system I have yet to get onto things that are inherently evil. For that matter.. in my exploration of the Goetia so far I have yet to really be convinced that any of them are also inherently "evil".
Bardon also does not really put a hierarchy upon the "original intelligences of the earth zone..etc"... if you read also on the same page you quoted... these are some intelligences that he personally has had contact with.. it is not an exhaustive nor all inclusive list.
Meh. This is why PME should not be treated as a stand alone.
There really are not blinds in Bardon's work...but it's more than just a read it and do it sort of thing...there is much more hidden value.. even in the supposed errors people have found.
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the 360 Bardon genii
Original post: Asterion
well if Aschminaday is absolute monarch of the Earth Sphere, even the original intelligences and the 360 are subjected to his dominion...
sorry if i was annoying or upsetting, i didn t mean it at all...
on the other hand, thats exactly it: things that are inherently evil! Bardon says he kept them out, for fear of improper use, yet these demonic clues lead to other versions.
May it be that the Abramelin work contains blinds?
Even if thats the case...The spirits of the Sun sphere are just names of Stars from arabik transliterated in his code, an the Moonspirits are just the Moon houses also from Arabik.
My guess is that the seals are correct, but the names are to be obtained by contact and contact alone.
To illustrate an example, callin fort the Sun sphere spirit called BANAMOL would yield nothing, no result, as it is only the name of REGULUS incoded.
First the magician must enter the Sun Sphere, scry upon the seal and have the contacted entity reveal it s name....
Same goes for the lunar Spirits.. Callin the spirit EMTIRCHEYUD without proper knowledge would be useless, as it is meraly the name of the moonhouse ALBOTHAIM. Similar procedure as in the case of the Sunsphere...
The only valid list i have found to be exact are the 72 genii of mercury and the elemetal kings i have myself employed.
I d love to hear your experiences with the 360 when u have some time
well if Aschminaday is absolute monarch of the Earth Sphere, even the original intelligences and the 360 are subjected to his dominion...
sorry if i was annoying or upsetting, i didn t mean it at all...
on the other hand, thats exactly it: things that are inherently evil! Bardon says he kept them out, for fear of improper use, yet these demonic clues lead to other versions.
May it be that the Abramelin work contains blinds?
Even if thats the case...The spirits of the Sun sphere are just names of Stars from arabik transliterated in his code, an the Moonspirits are just the Moon houses also from Arabik.
My guess is that the seals are correct, but the names are to be obtained by contact and contact alone.
To illustrate an example, callin fort the Sun sphere spirit called BANAMOL would yield nothing, no result, as it is only the name of REGULUS incoded.
First the magician must enter the Sun Sphere, scry upon the seal and have the contacted entity reveal it s name....
Same goes for the lunar Spirits.. Callin the spirit EMTIRCHEYUD without proper knowledge would be useless, as it is meraly the name of the moonhouse ALBOTHAIM. Similar procedure as in the case of the Sunsphere...
The only valid list i have found to be exact are the 72 genii of mercury and the elemetal kings i have myself employed.
I d love to hear your experiences with the 360 when u have some time
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the 360 Bardon genii
Original post: MagiAwen
Okay Yeah.. I do have some to say about this..unfortunately there is something that needs my attention so later this evening I will be back online.
Not offended at all...it is rare that I take things personally. I simply misunderstood you and then further complicated things by making mistakes in typing... too many things going on here today.
Also another unfortunate thing is that I am more familiar with Bardon than I am Abramelin...so I would actually like to take some time to look into it a bit more.
I'll be back!
Okay Yeah.. I do have some to say about this..unfortunately there is something that needs my attention so later this evening I will be back online.
Not offended at all...it is rare that I take things personally. I simply misunderstood you and then further complicated things by making mistakes in typing... too many things going on here today.
Also another unfortunate thing is that I am more familiar with Bardon than I am Abramelin...so I would actually like to take some time to look into it a bit more.
I'll be back!
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the 360 Bardon genii
Original post: Felouen
[QUOTE=Asterion;358199]
The only valid list i have found to be exact are the 72 genii of mercury and the elemetal kings i have myself employed.
[/QUOTE]
Valid list as in from Abramelin´s work?
[QUOTE=Asterion;358199]
The only valid list i have found to be exact are the 72 genii of mercury and the elemetal kings i have myself employed.
[/QUOTE]
Valid list as in from Abramelin´s work?
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the 360 Bardon genii
Original post: Asterion
no , from PME, Bardon. Valid as in coinciding with the name of the being that responds to it. And of xourse the 12 angels.
The rest, as i said, are either encoded houses or stars, either other kabbalistical artifices.
no , from PME, Bardon. Valid as in coinciding with the name of the being that responds to it. And of xourse the 12 angels.
The rest, as i said, are either encoded houses or stars, either other kabbalistical artifices.
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the 360 Bardon genii
Original post: Asterion
no , from PME, Bardon. Valid as in coinciding with the name of the being that responds to it. And of xourse the 12 angels.
The rest, as i said, are either encoded houses or stars, either other kabbalistical artifices.
no , from PME, Bardon. Valid as in coinciding with the name of the being that responds to it. And of xourse the 12 angels.
The rest, as i said, are either encoded houses or stars, either other kabbalistical artifices.
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the 360 Bardon genii
Original post: Asterion
cmon people, can t believe no one worked with this spiritual treasure. It beats the Goetia by a long shot..
cmon people, can t believe no one worked with this spiritual treasure. It beats the Goetia by a long shot..
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the 360 Bardon genii
Original post: Felouen
Well, I haven´t even started with ceremonial magic yet, I´m still deciding with what to start with. Some say Donal Tyson with his Modern Magic, others say it has blinds and do Bardon, to which more people reply it takes years to get through, and only if you´re really patient...
Well, I haven´t even started with ceremonial magic yet, I´m still deciding with what to start with. Some say Donal Tyson with his Modern Magic, others say it has blinds and do Bardon, to which more people reply it takes years to get through, and only if you´re really patient...
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Original post: Asterion
i think you mean Donald Michael Kraig. Yes it does take patience, but a few years will start you off, not decades, hehe
i think you mean Donald Michael Kraig. Yes it does take patience, but a few years will start you off, not decades, hehe
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Original post: Felouen
Oh yes! Sorry for the mistypo. What would you recommend starting with? Though, I´m still wondering whether there is another way to contact various entities than using ceremonial magic...
Oh yes! Sorry for the mistypo. What would you recommend starting with? Though, I´m still wondering whether there is another way to contact various entities than using ceremonial magic...
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the 360 Bardon genii
Original post: Athena
Bardon was using the German version of the text. The paste below looks like the French version. Not that it matters a whole huge deal, but there are a few differences :>. Also, a different number of spirits in each version.
The odd bit is, I called upon a couple of the Bardon spirits years before I did the Abramelin working... and they seemed to feel quite different to me. No idea why. I was using the jumbled version of the names though. From what I have heard Bardon gave his students the code, so maybe one was supposed to decipher before going ahead and calling them. I do have to admit though I find it cute when magicians go on forever about how they would *never* work with a Daemon/demon but they have worked with the Bardon spirits :>.
Athena
[QUOTE=Asterion;358179]i know the demon daemon difference, but i don t think the word is employed in Abramelin..
And the importance of completing the 8 stages.. i just want to hear other s claims about them.
The Sun sphere is one thing, with the 45 (i believe) based on encrypted fixed stars, and the 360 genii of the Zone Girdling Earth, or the Circumterrestrial zone, Sublunar , or Aerial, is another thing, to my knowledge.
Plus the head of the sphere is Aschmunaday...
If in abramelin the genii were simply mentioned without their 8 heads , it would have been attributed to that demon-daimon thing, but Abramelin ( of wich Bardon clearly owned a copy) but therein it is stated
The Four Princes and Superior Spirits be:--
The Spirits common unto these Four Sub-Princes, namely:--
ORIENS.
PAIMON,
ARITON.
AMAIMON.
HOSEN.
SARAPH.
PROXOSOS.
HABHI.
ACUAR.
TIRANA.
ALLUPH.
NERCAMAY.
NILEN.
MOREL.
TRACI.
ENAIA.
MULACH.
MALUTENS.
IPARKAS.
NUDITON.
MELNA.
MELHAER.
RUACH.
APOLHUN.
SCHABUACH.
MERMO.
MELAMUD.
POTER.
SCHED.
EKDULON.
MANTIENS.
OBEDAMA.
SACHIEL.
MOSCHEL.
PEREUCH.
DECCAL.
ASPERIM.
KATINI.
TORFORA.
BADAD.
COELEN.
CHUSCHI.
TASMA.
PACHID.
PAREK.
RACHIAR.
NOGAR.
ADON.
TRAPIS.
NAGID.
ETHANIM.
PATID.
PAREHT.
EMPHASTISON.
PARASEH.
GEREVIL.
ELMIS.
ASMIEL.
IRMINON.
ASTUREL.
NUTHON.
LOMIOL.
IMINK.
PLIROK.
TAGNON.
PARMATUS.
IARESIN.
GORILON.
LIRION.
PLEGIT.
OGILEN.
TARADOS.
LOSIMON.
RAGARAS.
IGILON.
GOSEGAS.
ASTREGA.
PARUSUR.
IGIS.
AHEROM.
IGARAK.
GELOMA.
KILIK.
REMORON.
EKALIKE.
ISEKEL.
ELZEGAN.
IPAKOL.
HARIL.
KADOLON.
IOGION.
ZARAGIL.
IRRORON.
ILAGAS.
BALALOS.
OROIA.
LAGASUF.
ALAGAS.
ALPAS.
SOTERION.
ROMAGES.
PROMAKOS.
METAFEL.
DARASCON.
KELEN.
ERENUTES.
NAJIN.
TULOT.
PLATIEN.
ATLOTON.
AFARORP.
MORILEN.
RAMARATZ.
NOGEN.
MOLIN.
ORINEL.
TIMIRA.
DRAMAS.
AMALIN.
KIRIK.
BUBANA.
BUK.
RANER.
SEMLIN.
AMBOLIN,
ABUTES.
EXTERON.
LABOUX.
CORCARON.
ETHAN.p. 106
TARET.
DABLAT.
BURIUL. 1
OMAN.
CARASCH.
DIMURGOS.
ROGGIOL.
LORIOL.
ISIGI.
TIORON.
DAROKIN.
HORANAR
ABAHIN.
GOLEG.
GUAGAMON.
LAGINX.
ETALIZ.
AGEI.
LEMEL.
UDAMAN.
BIALOT.
GAGALOS.
RAGALIM.
FINAXOS.
AKANEF.
OMAGES.
AGRAX.
SAGARES.
AFRAY.
UGALES.
HERMIALA.
HALIGAX.
GUGONIX.
OPILM.
DAGULER.
PACHEI.
NIMALON.
AGIBOL.
RIGOLEN.
GRASEMIN.
ELAFON.
TRISAGA.
GAGALIN.
CLERACA.
ELATON.
PAFESLA.
MAGOG.
DIOPOS.
DISOLEL.
BIRIEL.
SIFON.
KELE.
MAGIROS.
SARTABAKIM.
LUNDO.
SOBE.
INOKOS.
MABAKIEL.
APOT.
OPUN.
CAMAL.
TOXAI.
KATARON.
RAX.
GONOGIN.
SCHELAGON.
GINAR.
ISIAMON.
BAHAL.
DAREK.
ISCHIGAS.
GOLEN.
GROMENIS.
RIGIOS.
NIMERIX.
HERG.
ARGILON.
OKIRI.
FAGANI.
HIPOLOS.
ILESON.
CAMONIX.
BAFAMAL.
ALAN.
APORMENOS.
OMBALAT.
QUARTAS.
UGIRPEN.
ARAEX.
LEPACA.
KOLOFE.
p. 107
These be those of
KATOLIN.
LUESAF.
MASAUB.
URIGO.
FATURAB.
FERSEBUS.
BARUEL.
UBARIN.
BUTARAB.
ISCHIRON.
ODAX.
ROLER.
AROTOR.
HEMIS.
ARPIRON.
ARRABIN.
SUPIPAS.
FORTESON.
DULID.
SORRIOLENEN.
MEGALAK.
ANAGOTOS.
SIKASTIN.
PETUNOF
MANTAN.
MEKLBOC.
TIGRAFON.
TAGORA.
DEBAM.
TIRAIM.
IRIX.
MADAIL.
ABAGIRON.
PANDOLI.
NENISEM.
COBEL.
SOBEL.
LABONETON.
ARIOTH.
MARAG.
KAMUSIL.
KAITAR.
SCHARAK.
MAISADUL.
AGILAS.
KOLAM.
KILIGIL.
CORODON.
HEPOGON.
DAGLAS.
HAGION.
EGAKIREH.
PARAMOR.
OLISERMON.
RIMOG.
HORMINOS.
HAGOG.
MIMOSA.
AMCHISON.
ILARAX.
MAKALOS.
LOCATER.
COLVAM.
BATTERNIS.
ORMION.
PRECHES.
MAGGID.
SCLAVAK.
MEBBESSER.
BACARON.
HOLBA.
HIFARION.
GILARION.
ENIURI.
ABADIR.
SBARIONAT.
UTIFA.
OMET.
SARRA.
AMATIA.
BILIFARES.
LAMARION.
DIRALISEN.
LICANEN.
DIMIRAG.
ELPONEN.
ERGAMEN.
GOTIFAN.
NIMORUP.
CARELENA.
LAMALON.
IGURIM.
AKIUM.
DORAK.
TACHAN.
IKONOK.
KEMAL.
BILICO.
TROMES.
BALFORI.
AROLEN.
LIROCHI.
NOMINON.
IAMAI.
AROGOR.
HOLASTRI. p. 108
HACAMULI.
SAMALO.
PLISON.
RADERAF.
BOROL.
1SOROSMA.
CORILON.
GRAMON.
MAGALAST.
ZAGALO.
PELLIPIS.
NATALIS.
NAMIROS.
ADIRAEL.
KABADA.
KIPOKIS.
ORGOSIL.
ARCON.
AMBOLÃ?N.
LAMOLON.
BILIFOR.
GASARONS.
2SOROSMA.
TURITEL.
BALAKEN.
GAGISON.
MAFALAC.
AGAB.
AGAFALI.
DISON.
ACHANIEL.
SUDORON.
KABERSA.
EBARON.
ZALANES.
UGOLA.
CAME.
ROFFLES.
MENOLIK.
TACAROS.
ASTOLIT.
RUKUM.
EKOROK.
SIBOLAS.
SARIS.
SEKABIN.
CAROMOS.
ROSARAN.
SAPASON.
NOTISER.
FLAXON.
HAROMBRUB.
MEGALOSIN.
MILIOM.
ILEMLIS.
GALAK.
ANDROCOS.
MARANTON.
CARON.
REGINON.
ELERION.
SERMEOT.
IRMENOS.
p. 109
These be those of
RAMISON.
SCRILIS.
BURIOL.
TARALIM.
BURASEN.
AKESOLI.
EREKIA.
ILLIRIKIM.
LABISI.
AKOROS.
MAMES.
GLESI.
VISION.
EFFRIGIS.
APELKI.
DALEP.
DRESOP.
HERGOTIS.
NILIMA.
= 111
Ashtaroth and Asmodeus
= 53
Amaymon and Ariton
= 10
Asmodeus and Magoth
= 15
Ashtaroth
= 32
Magoth and Koré
= 65
Asmodeus
= 16
Beelzebub
= 49
Oriens
= 8
Paymon
= 15
Ariton
= 22
Amaymon
= 20
Total of Names of Servient Spirits
= 316[/QUOTE]
Bardon was using the German version of the text. The paste below looks like the French version. Not that it matters a whole huge deal, but there are a few differences :>. Also, a different number of spirits in each version.
The odd bit is, I called upon a couple of the Bardon spirits years before I did the Abramelin working... and they seemed to feel quite different to me. No idea why. I was using the jumbled version of the names though. From what I have heard Bardon gave his students the code, so maybe one was supposed to decipher before going ahead and calling them. I do have to admit though I find it cute when magicians go on forever about how they would *never* work with a Daemon/demon but they have worked with the Bardon spirits :>.
Athena
[QUOTE=Asterion;358179]i know the demon daemon difference, but i don t think the word is employed in Abramelin..
And the importance of completing the 8 stages.. i just want to hear other s claims about them.
The Sun sphere is one thing, with the 45 (i believe) based on encrypted fixed stars, and the 360 genii of the Zone Girdling Earth, or the Circumterrestrial zone, Sublunar , or Aerial, is another thing, to my knowledge.
Plus the head of the sphere is Aschmunaday...
If in abramelin the genii were simply mentioned without their 8 heads , it would have been attributed to that demon-daimon thing, but Abramelin ( of wich Bardon clearly owned a copy) but therein it is stated
The Four Princes and Superior Spirits be:--
LUCIFER.
LEVIATAN.
SATAN.
BELIAL.
The Eight Sub-Princes be:--
LEVIATAN.
SATAN.
BELIAL.
ASTAROT.
MAGOT.
ASMODEE.
BELZEBUD.
ORIENS.
PAIMON.
ARITON.
AMAIMON.
p. 105MAGOT.
ASMODEE.
BELZEBUD.
ORIENS.
PAIMON.
ARITON.
AMAIMON.
The Spirits common unto these Four Sub-Princes, namely:--
ORIENS.
PAIMON,
ARITON.
AMAIMON.
HOSEN.
SARAPH.
PROXOSOS.
HABHI.
ACUAR.
TIRANA.
ALLUPH.
NERCAMAY.
NILEN.
MOREL.
TRACI.
ENAIA.
MULACH.
MALUTENS.
IPARKAS.
NUDITON.
MELNA.
MELHAER.
RUACH.
APOLHUN.
SCHABUACH.
MERMO.
MELAMUD.
POTER.
SCHED.
EKDULON.
MANTIENS.
OBEDAMA.
SACHIEL.
MOSCHEL.
PEREUCH.
DECCAL.
ASPERIM.
KATINI.
TORFORA.
BADAD.
COELEN.
CHUSCHI.
TASMA.
PACHID.
PAREK.
RACHIAR.
NOGAR.
ADON.
TRAPIS.
NAGID.
ETHANIM.
PATID.
PAREHT.
EMPHASTISON.
PARASEH.
GEREVIL.
ELMIS.
ASMIEL.
IRMINON.
ASTUREL.
NUTHON.
LOMIOL.
IMINK.
PLIROK.
TAGNON.
PARMATUS.
IARESIN.
GORILON.
LIRION.
PLEGIT.
OGILEN.
TARADOS.
LOSIMON.
RAGARAS.
IGILON.
GOSEGAS.
ASTREGA.
PARUSUR.
IGIS.
AHEROM.
IGARAK.
GELOMA.
KILIK.
REMORON.
EKALIKE.
ISEKEL.
ELZEGAN.
IPAKOL.
HARIL.
KADOLON.
IOGION.
ZARAGIL.
IRRORON.
ILAGAS.
BALALOS.
OROIA.
LAGASUF.
ALAGAS.
ALPAS.
SOTERION.
ROMAGES.
PROMAKOS.
METAFEL.
DARASCON.
KELEN.
ERENUTES.
NAJIN.
TULOT.
PLATIEN.
ATLOTON.
AFARORP.
MORILEN.
RAMARATZ.
NOGEN.
MOLIN.
(= 111 Spirits Servient.)
These be the Spirits common unto
ASTAROT and ASMODEE,
viz.:--
AMANIEL.ORINEL.
TIMIRA.
DRAMAS.
AMALIN.
KIRIK.
BUBANA.
BUK.
RANER.
SEMLIN.
AMBOLIN,
ABUTES.
EXTERON.
LABOUX.
CORCARON.
ETHAN.p. 106
TARET.
DABLAT.
BURIUL. 1
OMAN.
CARASCH.
DIMURGOS.
ROGGIOL.
LORIOL.
ISIGI.
TIORON.
DAROKIN.
HORANAR
ABAHIN.
GOLEG.
GUAGAMON.
LAGINX.
ETALIZ.
AGEI.
LEMEL.
UDAMAN.
BIALOT.
GAGALOS.
RAGALIM.
FINAXOS.
AKANEF.
OMAGES.
AGRAX.
SAGARES.
AFRAY.
UGALES.
HERMIALA.
HALIGAX.
GUGONIX.
OPILM.
DAGULER.
PACHEI.
NIMALON.
(= 53 Spirits Servient.)
These be the Spirits common unto
AMAIMON and ARITON,
viz.:--
HAUGES.AGIBOL.
RIGOLEN.
GRASEMIN.
ELAFON.
TRISAGA.
GAGALIN.
CLERACA.
ELATON.
PAFESLA.
(= 10 Spirits Servient.)
These be the Spirits in common between
ASMODEE and MAGOT,
viz.:--
TOUN.MAGOG.
DIOPOS.
DISOLEL.
BIRIEL.
SIFON.
KELE.
MAGIROS.
SARTABAKIM.
LUNDO.
SOBE.
INOKOS.
MABAKIEL.
APOT.
OPUN.
(= 15 Spirits Servient.)
The following be those of
ASTAROT,
viz.:--
AMAN.CAMAL.
TOXAI.
KATARON.
RAX.
GONOGIN.
SCHELAGON.
GINAR.
ISIAMON.
BAHAL.
DAREK.
ISCHIGAS.
GOLEN.
GROMENIS.
RIGIOS.
NIMERIX.
HERG.
ARGILON.
OKIRI.
FAGANI.
HIPOLOS.
ILESON.
CAMONIX.
BAFAMAL.
ALAN.
APORMENOS.
OMBALAT.
QUARTAS.
UGIRPEN.
ARAEX.
LEPACA.
KOLOFE.
(= 32 Spirits Servient.)
p. 107
These be those of
MAGOT and KORE,
viz.:--
NACHERAN.KATOLIN.
LUESAF.
MASAUB.
URIGO.
FATURAB.
FERSEBUS.
BARUEL.
UBARIN.
BUTARAB.
ISCHIRON.
ODAX.
ROLER.
AROTOR.
HEMIS.
ARPIRON.
ARRABIN.
SUPIPAS.
FORTESON.
DULID.
SORRIOLENEN.
MEGALAK.
ANAGOTOS.
SIKASTIN.
PETUNOF
MANTAN.
MEKLBOC.
TIGRAFON.
TAGORA.
DEBAM.
TIRAIM.
IRIX.
MADAIL.
ABAGIRON.
PANDOLI.
NENISEM.
COBEL.
SOBEL.
LABONETON.
ARIOTH.
MARAG.
KAMUSIL.
KAITAR.
SCHARAK.
MAISADUL.
AGILAS.
KOLAM.
KILIGIL.
CORODON.
HEPOGON.
DAGLAS.
HAGION.
EGAKIREH.
PARAMOR.
OLISERMON.
RIMOG.
HORMINOS.
HAGOG.
MIMOSA.
AMCHISON.
ILARAX.
MAKALOS.
LOCATER.
COLVAM.
BATTERNIS.
(= 65 Spirits Servient.)
Those of
ASMODEE
be:--
ONEI.ORMION.
PRECHES.
MAGGID.
SCLAVAK.
MEBBESSER.
BACARON.
HOLBA.
HIFARION.
GILARION.
ENIURI.
ABADIR.
SBARIONAT.
UTIFA.
OMET.
SARRA.
(= 16 Spirits Servient.)
These be those of
BELZEBUD,
viz.:--
ALCANOR.AMATIA.
BILIFARES.
LAMARION.
DIRALISEN.
LICANEN.
DIMIRAG.
ELPONEN.
ERGAMEN.
GOTIFAN.
NIMORUP.
CARELENA.
LAMALON.
IGURIM.
AKIUM.
DORAK.
TACHAN.
IKONOK.
KEMAL.
BILICO.
TROMES.
BALFORI.
AROLEN.
LIROCHI.
NOMINON.
IAMAI.
AROGOR.
HOLASTRI. p. 108
HACAMULI.
SAMALO.
PLISON.
RADERAF.
BOROL.
1SOROSMA.
CORILON.
GRAMON.
MAGALAST.
ZAGALO.
PELLIPIS.
NATALIS.
NAMIROS.
ADIRAEL.
KABADA.
KIPOKIS.
ORGOSIL.
ARCON.
AMBOLÃ?N.
LAMOLON.
BILIFOR.
(= 49 Spirits Servient.)
These be of
ORIENS,
viz.:--
SARISEL.GASARONS.
2SOROSMA.
TURITEL.
BALAKEN.
GAGISON.
MAFALAC.
AGAB.
(= 8 Spirits Servient.)
These be of
PAIMON,
viz.:--
AGLAFOS.AGAFALI.
DISON.
ACHANIEL.
SUDORON.
KABERSA.
EBARON.
ZALANES.
UGOLA.
CAME.
ROFFLES.
MENOLIK.
TACAROS.
ASTOLIT.
RUKUM.
(= 15 Spirits Servient.)
These be of
ARITON,
viz.:--
ANADER.EKOROK.
SIBOLAS.
SARIS.
SEKABIN.
CAROMOS.
ROSARAN.
SAPASON.
NOTISER.
FLAXON.
HAROMBRUB.
MEGALOSIN.
MILIOM.
ILEMLIS.
GALAK.
ANDROCOS.
MARANTON.
CARON.
REGINON.
ELERION.
SERMEOT.
IRMENOS.
(= 22 Spirits Servient.)
p. 109
These be those of
AMAIMON,
viz.:--
ROMEROC.RAMISON.
SCRILIS.
BURIOL.
TARALIM.
BURASEN.
AKESOLI.
EREKIA.
ILLIRIKIM.
LABISI.
AKOROS.
MAMES.
GLESI.
VISION.
EFFRIGIS.
APELKI.
DALEP.
DRESOP.
HERGOTIS.
NILIMA.
(= 20 Spirits Servient.)
[size=-1]UNDER WHAT RULERS[/size].
[size=-1]TOTAL OF SPIRITS SERVIENT[/size].
Oriens, Paimon, Ariton, Amaymon= 111
Ashtaroth and Asmodeus
= 53
Amaymon and Ariton
= 10
Asmodeus and Magoth
= 15
Ashtaroth
= 32
Magoth and Koré
= 65
Asmodeus
= 16
Beelzebub
= 49
Oriens
= 8
Paymon
= 15
Ariton
= 22
Amaymon
= 20
Total of Names of Servient Spirits
= 316[/QUOTE]
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Original post: Athena
[QUOTE=Felouen;358569]Well, I haven´t even started with ceremonial magic yet, I´m still deciding with what to start with. Some say Donal Tyson with his Modern Magic, others say it has blinds and do Bardon, to which more people reply it takes years to get through, and only if you´re really patient...[/QUOTE]
Agrippa, I definitely recommend Agrippa! Best if you just skip over Tyson's notes/opinions, but the Three books of occult philosophy is definitely worth a read.
Athena
[QUOTE=Felouen;358569]Well, I haven´t even started with ceremonial magic yet, I´m still deciding with what to start with. Some say Donal Tyson with his Modern Magic, others say it has blinds and do Bardon, to which more people reply it takes years to get through, and only if you´re really patient...
[/QUOTE]Agrippa, I definitely recommend Agrippa! Best if you just skip over Tyson's notes/opinions, but the Three books of occult philosophy is definitely worth a read.
Athena
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Original post: Anika Divinorum
Are the names of the elemental beings in the cipher too? They don't seem to make as much sense after you apply the cipher. eg Pyrhum becomes Fjthil.
I just got the Agrippa books from Amazon. They're awesome.
Are the names of the elemental beings in the cipher too? They don't seem to make as much sense after you apply the cipher. eg Pyrhum becomes Fjthil.
I just got the Agrippa books from Amazon. They're awesome.
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Original post: AETERNITAS0
What I enjoy about the Spirits from the Book of Abramelin is that the only information given is there names, so it's up to the magician to work with them to see what they are all about.
What I enjoy about the Spirits from the Book of Abramelin is that the only information given is there names, so it's up to the magician to work with them to see what they are all about.
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Original post: AETERNITAS0
[QUOTE=Athena;358872]Agrippa, I definitely recommend Agrippa! Best if you just skip over Tyson's notes/opinions, but the Three books of occult philosophy is definitely worth a read.
Athena[/QUOTE]
Tyson provides some excellent info in his notes, I've found them vary helpful.
The difficulty one mind find with Agrippa is the excessive amount of superstition mixed into his writings. You'll have to have the wit to "separate the chaff from the wheat."
[QUOTE=Athena;358872]Agrippa, I definitely recommend Agrippa! Best if you just skip over Tyson's notes/opinions, but the Three books of occult philosophy is definitely worth a read.
Athena[/QUOTE]
Tyson provides some excellent info in his notes, I've found them vary helpful.
The difficulty one mind find with Agrippa is the excessive amount of superstition mixed into his writings. You'll have to have the wit to "separate the chaff from the wheat."
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Original post: Frater C.
I'm not familiar with all the odds and ends of German occultism because of the language-barrier, but as I understand it Bardon based at least part of his works on Rah Omir Quintscher. It is from Quintscher that Bardon took his cipher, for example, that is used in PME. Also, I believe, the spirits that Bardon lists as those of the Jupiter sphere are in fact the spirits of the sphere of Saturn as they appear in some book of Quintscher. This is evident when you look at the sigils of Bardon's jovial spirits where the planet of Saturn with its rings freuquently appear. This information taken together with what is brought up on Paul Allen's site, etc., makes me a little sceptic to the whole grimoire part and lists of spirits of PME.
Peace profound,
Frater C.
I'm not familiar with all the odds and ends of German occultism because of the language-barrier, but as I understand it Bardon based at least part of his works on Rah Omir Quintscher. It is from Quintscher that Bardon took his cipher, for example, that is used in PME. Also, I believe, the spirits that Bardon lists as those of the Jupiter sphere are in fact the spirits of the sphere of Saturn as they appear in some book of Quintscher. This is evident when you look at the sigils of Bardon's jovial spirits where the planet of Saturn with its rings freuquently appear. This information taken together with what is brought up on Paul Allen's site, etc., makes me a little sceptic to the whole grimoire part and lists of spirits of PME.
Peace profound,
Frater C.
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Original post: Frater C.
I just wanted to add that I think Bardon's attribution of the 72 spirits of the Schemhamphorasch to Mercury is based on information found in Franz Buchmann's book on the Schemhamphorasch. In it Buchmann notes the connection between the 72 genii and Mercury because their names all consist of 5 letters, 5 being the number corresponding to Mercury in Buchmann's numerical attributions, which in turn are based on Agrippa.
I just wanted to add that I think Bardon's attribution of the 72 spirits of the Schemhamphorasch to Mercury is based on information found in Franz Buchmann's book on the Schemhamphorasch. In it Buchmann notes the connection between the 72 genii and Mercury because their names all consist of 5 letters, 5 being the number corresponding to Mercury in Buchmann's numerical attributions, which in turn are based on Agrippa.
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Original post: splendorsolis
Wouldn't 5 be Martial? (Which would seem more appropriate considering that they're used in a work of subjugation and dominion.)
Wouldn't 5 be Martial? (Which would seem more appropriate considering that they're used in a work of subjugation and dominion.)
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Original post: Frater C.
Buchmann attributes the number 5 to Mercury which Agrippa also does (see book 2, chapter 21 of Three Books of Occult Philosophy). The whole "5 is martial" was popularized by the GD.Wouldn't 5 be Martial? (Which would seem more appropriate considering that they're used in a work of subjugation and dominion.)