Help with Goetia please

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Original post: MaeveQ

Hello,
I need help/tips with Goetia. First of all let me tell you a little about myself so that you can give better advices. I have been practicing CM for about 5 months. I have been practicing magick(witchcraft,chaos), meditating and things like energy manipulation for about 4 years. Not constantly but on and off. And I NEED to evoke a goetic spirit. I havent evoked any of them before. I have had 2 attempts but failed. I had the circle and triangle, herbs that spirit likes, a black mirror, some incense, candles etc. First I took a ceremonial bath for about 30 mins. Then I meditated for another 30 mins. Then I performed LBRP and MP. Then meditated on the seal for about 5-10 mins. Then I read the conjurations. This went on for about 2 hours. But no spirit showed up. Could you give me tips on how to get them come please?
Thanks

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Original post: pAmphAge

A) Find someone more astrally sensitive to be your seer (women are generally better at this).

or

b) Take a strong hallucinogen. Salvia Divinorum is the best. Mushrooms, LSD, also work well though have certain side effects I'd prefer to avoid (not to mention they are illegal in most places.)

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Original post: kirk88

Are you good at scrying?

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Original post: Noxlux

[QUOTE=kirk88]Are you good at scrying?[/QUOTE]
I agree with Kirk - it is a good idea to be able to _see_ if a spirit has arrived.

The second thing which is good to be able to do is to be able to _call forth_ the spirit. Being able to _see_ is of course no guarantee that an invited being appears.

nox

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Original post: MaeveQ

I am not too bad at scrying. But I think at least I would have heard it talking to me or felt its presence, a change in the room.

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Original post: Noxlux

Ok, the next two questions would be then a) how do you call them forth? The most common methods are retracing the seal and chanting the name ofthe spirit, I believe. and Secondly, b) Have you established your circle firmly, so that you can see it by skrying - I have the impression that if one has established no _real_ circle it is often tricky to call them forth.

:-)

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Original post: MaeveQ

Well I read the conjurations and focus on the seal. And visualize it in the black mirror. In the second attemp, I could almost literally see the boundaries of the circle shining white.

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Original post: Noxlux

Ok, sounds like the circle is good.

One question: Have you tried evoking any nongoetian entities?

What I will sometimes do If the being do not arrive promptly is to draw the sigil with light a couple of times. The chanting I mentioned can also be useful.

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Original post: MaeveQ

I hope it was good because I wouldnt want any entity breaching it. I mean I did feel a connection to it. I havent tried evoking any other entities. I will try that drawing with light thing and chanting next time I try.

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Original post: Noxlux

Ok, it struck me that I also have two other possible suggestions. One is to use the sigil to get a view of the being without actually calling it forth, that is to say looking at the seal and using your second sight (skrying) to see it.

The second is to use the staff - that is the extension of your will - and command the spirit to "Appear now!".

The reason I mentioned the possibility of evoking other entities is very simple - there are less dangerous beings oout there which one can learn the process of evocation with, beings that one may feel more comfortable experimenting, just to get the process of evocation down pat first.

If possible, let us know how it goes.

Nox

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Original post: MaeveQ

Evoking other entities isnt very suitable for me right now. I dont have much time for this thing that needs to be done. I will try a few pre evocation things to heat it up though.

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Original post: MaeveQ

Thanks for the suggestions by the way.

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Original post: LadyHydralisk

Noxlux has given some good advice, here as does Pamphage

As a side note, I would reccomend taking Franz Bardon's course in Hermetics. It is easily accessible, complete and a surefire way to develop or redevelop your powers to a point where you can achieve a sucessful evocation. Thanks to the forum moderator I AM they are conveniently available free, on this site at the top of the ceremonial magic forum.

The problem is, the snake only sheds its skin at a certain point: you can't rush it. If you're not ready, you're not ready, and only patience can help ease the wait.

I know you're feeling frustrated, but it appears to me that you havn't got much longer until you can successfully do this and other fun things. You can see the circle, and that's far more than many can see. It could be you're not supposed to be changing what you're attempting to change, or you're being protected from evocation for whatever reason, or even, possibly, you have been put under a binding spell. I find this highly unlikely but it is possible.

Have you considered the possibility the demon appeared and you did not see/sense it? Many magicians work on 'blind faith', that is, they cannot see the entity. I know of two experienced magicians on this forum who have not bothered developing this third eye sight. Feeling a change in the room is one effect of the appearance of the demon, but you may not sense this, as all magicians are different. You may feel it as an inner tension or knowing, and not as an exterior effect. If you did not, try going through the motions even if you are not sure whether the demon is there or not.

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Original post: kirk88

Well what methods do you use in evocation, do you use the GD system or any other systems because I can help you in making a goetic evocation. I use the O.T.A system of evocation which is quit excellent in this area mixed with my necromancy work.

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Original post: Grab

One is to use the sigil to get a view of the being without actually calling it forth, that is to say looking at the seal and using your second sight (skrying) to see it.

That sounds pretty dangerous to me. Isn't this like evoking him but without the circle and the triangle, opening the portal to the demon's dimension without any protection or means of closing the portal again...

The second is to use the staff - that is the extension of your will - and command the spirit to "Appear now!".

This is the first time I ever read someone describing how one actually USES one of the tools! Cool! In Liber4 there's a lot of talk about symbology, and little if any practical hints.

/Grab

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Original post: Noxlux

[QUOTE=Grab]That sounds pretty dangerous to me. Isn't this like evoking him but without the circle and the triangle, opening the portal to the demon's dimension without any protection or means of closing the portal again...


/Grab[/QUOTE]
Well ... er ... "whilst inside your circle" may well be inserted in the original text - I sort of assumed that to be the case.

Assumptions are of course one of the ten largest causes of death. :-)

I do not think it is the same as actually evoking the entity.

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Original post: Grab

[QUOTE=Noxlux]I do not think it is the same as actually evoking the entity.[/QUOTE]
You're right, it's not the same, but IMHO one is opening the same "communication channel" in both cases, but using it in different ways.

Of course, if one does banishing before and after, then it's fine... but then why not just do a regular evocation, since you're doing all the ritual stuff anyway?

/Grab

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Original post: Noxlux

[QUOTE=Grab]You're right, it's not the same, but IMHO one is opening the same "communication channel" in both cases, but using it in different ways.

Of course, if one does banishing before and after, then it's fine... but then why not just do a regular evocation, since you're doing all the ritual stuff anyway?

/Grab[/QUOTE]
The advantage of just skrying for the being is just that it is easier - it is an option to open the communication channel when it is to difficult to just go ahead and evoke the being directly.

I think you are correct when you suggest framing the exercise with the normal safety precautions.

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Original post: MaeveQ

Thanks again.
I am using the black mirror in triangle method. I really wouldnt want to work on blind faith. I should have reliable contact with the spirit whether visual or audioal. I dont think anyone would try to bind me since almost no one knows that I practice magick. I try to be pure and positive with my intent and the outcome as possible. I guess I'll just do these exercises and try again until I do it.

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Original post: Grab

You know, people who are into magick probably can spot you in a big croud. There's something about energy fields or aura, I can't really explain it...

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Original post: MaeveQ

I know that but I never mean any harm to anyone, also try to do cleansing/dispelling, grounding and such things on occassions. But I havent done that in a while. Maybe I should try that too.

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Original post: LadyHydralisk

Maeve during the evocation, when you have the circle and triangle set up with the little black mirror, try using a fluid condenser on the mirror and some spirit lights.

A fluid condenser is a Bardonian term, it is a material, sometimes infused oils, sometimes water, and sometimes solid (metals and such mixed together) that condenses the electrical fluid (fancy term for chi) anyways, by anointing the mirror you should grant it powers a hundredfold over what it would be normally. The ancient egyptians used this method, as do native americans and even Orthodox Roman Catholics. The process of infusing the oil or water is quite simple. Choose your herbs. Bardon reccomends chamomile, Cunningham also reccomended chamomile and i luuuuvvv Cunningham. I never use chamomile, though. I bet you have a good knowledge base on herbs so you can get creative. Then take the herbs and make a tea out of them. Or in the case of oil, heat the oil gently over the course of a couple of hours or even days with the herbs in the oil. Then place the tincture through a unbleached coffee filter and funnel it into a bottle. To increase the power of the potion, you could add some colloidal gold. In this case, you only need a few drops, it is so powerful. Unfortunately you will find colloidal gold is very expensive and you have to buy a whole bottle to get those few drops. So you can spread this over the mirror, say some magic words, and voila you have a fantastic scrying mirror.

I would also reccomend using a seperate mirror for demons. My mother had a beautiful indigo blue full length mirror especially made for the purpose of magic, and used it for demonic evocation. She had to smash it because it was full of this dark spirit energy and could not be used for other purposes even after being purified with sage and other banishing rituals. And this was long past her days of interest in Goetia.

Now about the spirit lights, if I remember correctly, it is burnable oil infused with chamomile or other more spectacular herbs, and you drop a little colloidal gold in it (it can be the toxic colloidal gold, too, which is cheaper and not a true colloid, i might mention) with this method, and coupled with some other procedures, will allow even a non-adept to 'see' the entity. I get the feeling I am missing something here so you might refer to Bardon's text on it, I don't know of any other author who goes into it so indepthly.

I have not tried it myself because its damned near impossible to find oil lamps these days with a small wick. But I remember this working, if you know what I mean?

I know that but I never mean any harm to anyone,

You're a better soul than me ^_^ kekekekekekeke

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Original post: Grab

Very interesting Lady. Especially the part about having separate mirrors for demons and other entities!

I never quite understood how dipping a talisman in Chamomile Tea would increase the magical powers. Fascinating. Still, I do trust most of what Bardon writes. The questions is, where should I buy that colloidal gold, as it seems easy to be ripped off on that?

BTW, I don't agree that electrical fluid is chi. IMHO, chi corresponds to Bardon's vital fluid (the goldish white one). But actually it is not relevant to the discussion, since all those fluids supposedly are affected by the fluid condensers anyhow.

/Grab

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Original post: MaeveQ

LadyHydralisk, what methods do you use for evocation? Do you do evocations by yourself? How do you percieve the spirits? Do you have some suggestions for attracting the demon?

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Original post: MaeveQ

Also what does everyone think about the concept of day/night demons? I know they will probably come both at day and night but would it be better to summon according to this?