a question for all the satanist/luciferians

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: the truth

Can i ask why a lot , and i mean a LOT, of satanists/luciferians use the upside down pentacle or pentagram as their symbol?

Because , u know the way u dont support christianity or anythin like that, well the pentagram's true meaning was spun out of proportion to accomodate the Christian church's need for opressing women; as the pentacle was originally a sign of female spirituality and form; sacred femininity. And the circle around it represents protection and preservation of femininity.
Therefore you would be supporting the Christians of the 15th-18th century ideaologies and acts of condemning women etc.....
i could go on forever trying to explain this but im sure a lot of you know what the pentacle's true sympbolism is. I'll post later when ive got time...reply back if ur readin

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Jas

[QUOTE=the truth]Can i ask why a lot , and i mean a LOT, of satanists/luciferians use the upside down pentacle or pentagram as their symbol?[/QUOTE]
I would presume that this holds different meaning for everyone. Personally, I regard the inversion of the pentagram to symbolise the dominance of the manifest over spirit - Man's rule over all kingdoms. Exalting the flesh over spirit.


[QUOTE=the truth]Because , u know the way u dont support christianity or anythin like that, well the pentagram's true meaning was spun out of proportion to accomodate the Christian church's need for opressing women; as the pentacle was originally a sign of female spirituality and form; sacred femininity. And the circle around it represents protection and preservation of femininity.
Therefore you would be supporting the Christians of the 15th-18th century ideaologies and acts of condemning women etc.....
i could go on forever trying to explain this but im sure a lot of you know what the pentacle's true sympbolism is. I'll post later when ive got time...reply back if ur readin[/QUOTE]
That depends where you look for answers. There is no true meaning that may be attached to this symbol. There are many associations though. It's earliest association would signify some form of power, followed closely by protection. It has always held magical connections and many names: having been known as a witch's foot, goblin's cross, alpha star, pentagram, star of David (yes I know that is more accurately associated with the six pointed star, but the five pointed form has also carried this name in the past as protection from demons), as well as many more.



Jas.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: AJAtheMetastasis

Satanism or Luciferism represents the individualized essence of each believer, manifested as the belief that individual feels most connected too. SATAN/LUCIFER becomes what you invest into his essence. Another-words if you imagine SATAN/LUCIFER as evil, he shall accommodate you by being exactly what you desire. The same, if you see him in a (good) light. Please do not limit your belief-system by dragging old, out-dated material into your paradigm. With courage, push forward into realms uncharted. The highest state any SATANIST/LUCIFERIAN should strive for *IS* individualized freedom. :-D

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: the truth

ok.....i was really askin you PERSONALLY why you (i realise you all dont use it) use the symbol as a satanic icon. Its true origins holds no connotations whatsoever towards any being, or any religion etc etc. its roots are in nature....

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Qryztufre

Someone asked this a while ago and this was my reply...
[indent]
To me I have simplified it as follows (as it seems to correspond better when crossing 'paths'). The fifth point represents "chi" or energy. This energy when pointed "up" calls upon the gods or the divine. When pointed down it calls to the earth, or the power of ones self. The Satanist with his point down is representative of the humanist aspect of Satanism, the some Ceremonial Magickians performing the Banishing ritual of the Pentagram use the point down in order to draw the power of the earth into the ritual. In many rituals that call upon the divine (that have also incorporated the star into the ritual) will have the point up, while the rituals that call upon the elements, or self will have it down. Only the Wiccan seems to always adhere to keeping the point in only ONE direction (up).
[/indent]

My views have changed slightly upn the subject, but all in all, that still pretty much sums it up fer me.

Q

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Jas

I would agree with that, Qryztufre.



Jas.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Kain

Yes, I feel Qryztufre has put it very well indeed...

The person using the point-up pentagram aims to connect with something higher, it's source of power is what lies in that direction and the person's goal to go that way(to ascend, to come closer and eventually become one with what lies there). For me, by inverting it, it is stated that my source of power is the Self, that I do not want to connect with anyone/anything higher but I want to remain "down"(incarnated) and seperate(individual), in fact, that my goal and point of focus is around the lower planes of existance.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: AJAtheMetastasis

[QUOTE=the truth]ok.....i was really askin you PERSONALLY why you (i realise you all dont use it) use the symbol as a satanic icon. Its true origins holds no connotations whatsoever towards any being, or any religion etc etc. its roots are in nature....[/QUOTE]
Why limit yourself to a (symbol). I myself adhere more to the Taoist approach; that is: The Tao that can be spoken, seen, touched, etc. is not the real Tao. I simply embrace the great nothingness, which IS the all. Just my personal point of view.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Hairetikos

I pretty much agree with Qryztufre's interpretation. But, I'll add my own personal slant for the sake of discussion.

When I was studying the chakras a long while ago, I came across the two energy currents known as Ida and Pingala that wrap around the Shushumna. Unfortunately, I don't remember which is which, but one of these currents flows upwards and represents Liberation or the instinctual draw towards whatever one views as Divinity. The other current flows downwards and represents Manifestation or the instinct to indulge in and master the material world.

Ever since reading about these currents, I've likened them to the two different pentagrams. To me, the upward pointing pentagram symbolizes spirituality and the ideal of Liberating oneself from the material world. Whereas the downward pointing pentagram symbolizes Manifestation and all the ideals that accompany it.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Hoor-paar-Kraat

Events and things have no meaning other than the meaning that the mind imposes upon them.

To a baby a breast could mean food but to me it means something entirely different.

If you were to ask a mathemetician what the pentagram means they would tell you that it represents the most perfect interpretation of the infinite as you could conitnually draw pentagrams within the central pentagonal figure of the pentigram and vice versa if you had a pencil sharp enough.

Things only mean what we want them to mean.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Interstellis

I've also seen it viewed this way:

Upright pentagram, resting on two points is a fixed position, or stasis.

Reverse pentagram, resting (or more appropriately, balancing) on one point yields a dynamic position..harder to maintain, but more mutable...or geared towards evolution/change.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: the truth

thanx for replyin. i can see some ppl's ways of seein the pentagram are quite intricate, but others seem to think that they can believe what they want. which is fair enough, but sorta blocks out what the original intentions of the symbol mean.

the thing is, it sadly no longer represents what it was set out to. this is common among symbols and icions.

i cant help but feel sry about the way a lot of u are mislead, but if thats what ur happy with, thats fine.



the symbol ^ represents the male and the male characteristics,
the downward arrow (opposite of ^) represents the female and divine feminine.....i would go into more detail, and i'd post the origins etc but i get the feelin ur minds are set. good for u.
so the upside down pentagram n upright pentagram hold botho symbols and link back to this

the pentagrams continuous design represents balance, i agree Interstellis. this is also what the yin yang symbol means, and thousands of others, and theres meaning behind this that relates to balance between female and male in order to balance the world etc etc.....

so the upside down pentagram n upright pentagram hold botho symbols and link back to this

etc etc . ill prolly not b back. thanx for replyin

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Hairetikos

thanx for replyin. i can see some ppl's ways of seein the pentagram are quite intricate, but others seem to think that they can believe what they want.

Actually, you can believe what you want. It's very easy; people do it all the time. If this wasn't so, there'd be no such thing as religion or philosophy or theoretical science.

which is fair enough, but sorta blocks out what the original intentions of the symbol mean.

Maybe so, if it's even possible to prove what the original meaning of the pentagram was. But, then, who really gives two $hits? Life is a subjective thing, where almost everything is relative to the individual. Symbolism speaks to different people in different ways. It's not like there's any "right" or "wrong" way of interpreting a symbol.

the thing is, it sadly no longer represents what it was set out to. this is common among symbols and icions.

Yep, this is evolution. The only thing that never changes is the fact that everything changes.

i cant help but feel sry about the way a lot of u are mislead, but if thats what ur happy with, thats fine.

Don't feel sorry for us. We don't care. Why should you?

the symbol ^ represents the male and the male characteristics, the downward arrow (opposite of ^) represents the female and divine feminine.....i would go into more detail, and i'd post the origins etc but i get the feelin ur minds are set. good for u.

See, I have the same problem with Freudian dream analysis. There's no such thing as a universal meaning for any individual symbol. Sure, a culture or society may share the same interpretation of any given symbol based on how their culture commonly uses it. But, beyond an agreement like this, it's all relative. And this is how it should be. We're free to make our own interpretations and so forth. And anyone who says we're not can take their dogma and shove it.

the blind lead the blind

I sure as Hell hope this isn't in reference to those who don't agree with your interpretation. Because that would just be pure arrogance.

In any case, Satanism is about the sovereignty of the individual. Something which you're contradicting with calling people who have differing interpretations "blind."

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: m1thr0s

the symbol ^ represents the male and the male characteristics,
the downward arrow (opposite of ^) represents the female and divine feminine.....i would go into more detail, and i'd post the origins etc but i get the feelin ur minds are set. good for u.
so the upside down pentagram n upright pentagram hold botho symbols and link back to this.

This interpretation is fine so far as it goes but it doesn't go very far. Yes, the ascending pentagram CAN represent Yang energy and the descending pentagram the Yin but this is not always the case. By in large the reverse is actually more historically correct since the Chinese as well as East Indian alchemists reasoned that the "Aspiration" of Earth is Heaven (above) while the "Aspiration" of Heaven is Earth (below)...thus the vertical apex of the pentagram was defining of this "Aspiration". This method defines Inertia and subsequent Motion but in the west the situation was viewed differently so we see the Ascending Triangle representing Fire and Heaven (Air) and the Descending Triangle representing Water and/or Earth. So the pentagram genders are reversed in this view. It is also important to keep in mind that there are two kinds of Akasha (Spirit) as I have pointed out before somewhere - One Rooted in the Above and one in the Below. These are sometimes referred to simply as White Akasha and Black Akasha, or Gold and Silver synonymously. So much for elemental analysis. The truth is that these things are always somewhat dependant upon your overall context. To state flatly that these things are a resolute historical given is simply absurd. You may not be aware of the fact that many of the people you are addressing in this forum know enough about occultism to compile huge books on the subject if they wanted to.

But in a more basic vein, the pentagram has always been symbolically representative of the body of mankind in total - both male and female alike with its two arms feet and one head. That is why it is called the most common symbol among the flags of nations. Moreover, there has been a tendency to link the ascending pentagram to Life and the descending to Death, or Creation and Destruction cycles, so if you really want to understand why Satanism has drawn to the descending form you need to look more closely at this. From the sound of things you are mainly here to cast aspersions on other "less fortunate" minds than your own who do not possess the truth you possess. That, if anything, is the real pity here, as you might have learned something if you were a little less self-assuming...

Better luck next time...

m1thr0s

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Original post: frater luciferi



In freemasonry the inverted star is equated to the "Eastern star" or the morning star. This is also the same point that the silver star of valor that is given to soildiers that have been commended for their bravery. I do know that the "satanic" equivilant of the inverted pentacle does symbolize material over the overtly spiritual in some aspects- as much the consumation of the man which is to form into god. It is symbolic of the left hand path as well, and can be used to transpose the goat of mendes-or pentacle baphomet- of which is the symbiosis of the luciferic incarnation.

I don't really feel that the luciferian perspective on the star gives it any difference then the satanist= the view of the morning star is an ascended being who has reached their spiritual peak through a strict discipline. The irony however of the original placement of the star- ie the upright also in ways can relate to venus as it makes out the points of the orbit of venus around the sun =which makes a perfect star pattern once mapped out inter-related with the orbit of earth.

As always one could view the five points of the star as the five points of the elements- fire air earth water and ether = ether being the pure spiritual element that ties the four others/lesser together. If being that the star is inverted this as ether is always the top point in relation to mind/spirit of the human "star" would point out not a contrary spiritual dogma towards white light in theorum, but a concise decision for the defilement/gnosis of the heathen- ie wisdom through sexuality,drugs , extreme expierience , sucking the marrow so to speak. The five material elements which are placed above the ether/which represents in a manner the pure "astetic" spiritual essence of mind- ie the third eye , the crown chakra , the "mist". It is these material fomations which are the tenets of that plane and the contrasting reality in which the spiritual dogma forms.

therein from the star can be seen a counterintuitive golden spiral of which forms
the 23/23 patterns of the caseadus A inverse form of fractal power that radiates outwards instead of the inner working of the upright star. The inverse star is symbolic of inner power of the macrocosm, and inner godhood and strength and the golden spiral pattern is seen as a outward force of which flows from the practicioners center- particularly over the chest area-of which the black flame of the dragon is manifested- or which is lit through dark gnosis.


the casedus(forgive my spelling) is intertwined within baphomet as well as the symbol of the inverted/morning star. not suprising but this can also relate to
the i ching or the hexagrams if one maps the elemental designators with the five points of the star.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Qryztufre

thanx for replyin. i can see some ppl's ways of seein the pentagram are quite intricate, but others seem to think that they can believe what they want. which is fair enough, but sorta blocks out what the original intentions of the symbol mean.

the thing is, it sadly no longer represents what it was set out to. this is common among symbols and icions.

i cant help but feel sry about the way a lot of u are mislead, but if thats what ur happy with, thats fine.



the symbol ^ represents the male and the male characteristics,
the downward arrow (opposite of ^) represents the female and divine feminine.....i would go into more detail, and i'd post the origins etc but i get the feelin ur minds are set. good for u.
so the upside down pentagram n upright pentagram hold botho symbols and link back to this

the pentagrams continuous design represents balance, i agree Interstellis. this is also what the yin yang symbol means, and thousands of others, and theres meaning behind this that relates to balance between female and male in order to balance the world etc etc.....

so the upside down pentagram n upright pentagram hold botho symbols and link back to this

etc etc . ill prolly not b back. thanx for replyin

Minds are set? MINDS ARE SET? How did you come to this conclusion? Your name is The Truth yet you come in here and ask what we THINK of it, then tell us we are wrong, then say we don't care...that our minds are set...then you leave?

Sorry, but I'm 32 years old. My mind is set on VERY few things. I've never heard of that version (so thanks fer sharing it). Can you back it up as the original meaning?

Yeah, my ideas on it may be wrong...but no one has told me what was right. Now I may never know...

I was willing to give you a chance...I would have listened...but sinse you did not give me one, where does that put us? Where does that put The Truth? Now I have to search for myself (which is likely the best course anyways)...

This is what I found (blessed be about.com)

The Pentagram

The pentagram is one of the most potent, powerful, and persistent symbols in human history. It has been important to almost every ancient culture, from the Mayans of Latin America, to India, China, and Egypt. It has been found scratched on the walls of Neolithic caves, and in Babylonian drawings, where it marks the pattern the planet Venus makes on its travels- a secret symbol of the Goddess Ishtar. Scriptures, especially Hebrew, are abundant with references to pentagrams. So, why does the pentagram have such a sinister reputation?

The Pentagram in the Ancient World

The earliest pentagrams are found scratched into stone age caves. While they are believed to have some spiritual significance, the meaning of the star to early humans is a mystery. Early civilizations that followed, it held various meanings. It served to mark directions in Sumerian texts, and represented the five visible planets.

According to the Greek mathematician and philosopher Pythagoras, five was the number of man, because of the fivefold division of the body, and the ancient Greek division of the soul. According to Pythagoras, the five points of the pentagram each represent one of the five elements that make up man: fire, water, air, earth, and psyche. (energy, fluid, breath, matter, and mind; liquid, gas, solid, plasma and aethyr)

This particular symbolism has persisted for centuries, and has greatly influenced theologies of diverse traditions. Early Christians wore it as an emblem, possibly to represent the wounds of Christ. Later, the pentacle was important to many doctrines of esoteric Medieval and Renaissance belief systems- alchemy, kabbalah, and Ceremonial magick.



Would you like to know more?

Please note the bolded part (I did that)...seems to me while you may be correct...I may be as well...so until more information if given...my way is the correct one (for me).

Thanks,
Q

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: fiat_lux_777

93

the thing is, it sadly no longer represents what it was set out to. this is common among symbols and icions.

i cant help but feel sry about the way a lot of u are mislead, but if thats what ur happy with, thats fine.

If you believe that the symbology of an inverted pentagram only dates back to the Christian era, then it is you who are misinformed.

others seem to think that they can believe what they want

Nobody said that (although it is true!) - what was stated is that *interpretations* vary - as they have throughout recorded history. It is narrow-minded to hold to a belief that a symbol has not undegone many permutations in meaning since it's inception.

93 93/93

Todd

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: m1thr0s

hey...thanks for the fresh material folks! This is getting interesting afterall...love that golden mean formula fr luciferi...I never saw that before now! neolithic cave drawings? fascinating! It should probably not be overlooked that human beings have been star gazers since prerecorded history and that it is a well known fact that Sirius emits what appears optically to be a 5-rayed star as opposing the 6 rayed appearance of most other stars. This is due to its smaller satellite star which somehow interferes with its optics. Also Venus is said to have this characteristic for different reasons. So we have two of the brightest bodies of light in the firmament both of which emit a 5-rayed aura...This was most certainly observed in antiquity by people from any earthly vantage point and remains a constant down to the present day...

m1thr0s

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: frater luciferi

http://www.glenn.freehomepage.com/writings/Pentacle/

heres some more to chew on mithros, I am a bit new to this idea myself- (gets grandeous ideas like the movie PI). Very interesting stuff.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: the truth

yeh its really interestin, im gona try and get as many interpretations as i can.
sry if i came across as sayin ur wrong, cuz im not sayin that.

its just lil flow followers i.e the fake goths that run around with pentagrams on their hoodies just dont get anythin. Sorry, i realise ur all really educated and thers prolly none of those part time goths on here.

tons of meanins are around, the pagan ones always seem to relate back to nature etc. im gona read up more on this

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: theblackpeacock

Pi was a sick movie.

I heard the knights templar invented it to represent baphomet, but that was only the sigil with the goat.

It also represents trinity denied.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: frater luciferi

the origins of baphomet I think were from the persecution of the knights templar. However this can't be true becuase the baphomet is actually a pretty good synthesis of a divine androgenen. I am reminded of levis pentacle that seems to allude to the same aspects of masculine/feminine power and yet again the caseadeus? I'm not sure exactly if their is a archetype that has roots in the middle east- as the worship of baphomet by the knights templar was equated with the worship of satan. Why a goat though? there has to be something deeper then what the history books point at.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: Crucible

I will admit that I was a Christian once. A minister even. Now I am a Luciferian and I'll tell you something about the ignorance of the power of one's faith, it'll destroy you. The pentagram has various meanings to various individuals. It has a special meaning to me and yet I do not broadcast it on my hoodie. As a black male I have enough to fight against in my smallish ingorance infested town and can easiliy find myself harmed by my own people and let me say to you, I'm not the son of the creator and to not wish to be crucified.
Which brings me to my point. The crucifix was not a huge "T", but rather it was an "X", jc wasnt born on Dec. 25th, but rather sometime in August (many say the 17th) 12/25 was Mithra's b-day. We can go on and on, but the reality is that the inverted pentagram is a mystical symbol that I use in my Arts. I do not know, or care what it means to most others.
Also truth, MOST Luciferians are intellectuals...not 16yr old goths trying to buck the system and race to see who attempts suicide the most and actually believe that Lestat was the first goth. Very few of us are cutters, or sufferening from depression or dark, brooding, angst. Most are quite intelligentand many of us are family people.

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: m1thr0s

Dec 25th is my birthday? And all along I thought it was groundhog's day...Life is so confusing...

sorry...couldn't resist...

m1thr0s

[Occult Forum Archive]

Original post: James Law

You really don't have to use the inverted pentagram to be a satanist or luciferian, do you? Unless... oh, man... THATS why I never get invited to any of the neighborhood Black Masses! Damn all of you to hell!!!