Original post: Inuus Grim
How do you picture the Prince of Darkness whether he be a male or female to you? I would be interested in hearing about how all of you picture him in your mind.
The way I picture him is he is a tall and muscular man with pail skin, electric blue eyes, a red pointy goatee, and he wears a large black velvet cloak.
How you picture him/her
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How you picture him/her
Original post: doh
Gigantic horns, hooved feet, red skin, large smiling mouth. Think the movie "Legend".
Sorry, I have been on a sarcastic bent lately.
In all seriousness, what I see the "Prince of Darkness" as is dependant on the situation. Sometimes, he can seem the "epitomy of evil" while other time "espousing all that is good". Satan, if he exists, is not bound by anything here on earth as far as appearance. What you wish to see is what you will see. But I really believe that it would be much more than our own perceptions of how he "should" look. You won't know until you see it. And then, what you see will not be the same thing that others have seen or will see. How can the "Lord of Lies" sit with only one appearance? And how could he be confined to the ideals of one individual?
I don't mean this as an attack, and reading it, it may seem as such. I'm just saying that I wouldn't place all of my money on what I "think" he would look like until I have seen the entity myself. Even then, I only will see what I believe I see.
Gigantic horns, hooved feet, red skin, large smiling mouth. Think the movie "Legend".
Sorry, I have been on a sarcastic bent lately.
In all seriousness, what I see the "Prince of Darkness" as is dependant on the situation. Sometimes, he can seem the "epitomy of evil" while other time "espousing all that is good". Satan, if he exists, is not bound by anything here on earth as far as appearance. What you wish to see is what you will see. But I really believe that it would be much more than our own perceptions of how he "should" look. You won't know until you see it. And then, what you see will not be the same thing that others have seen or will see. How can the "Lord of Lies" sit with only one appearance? And how could he be confined to the ideals of one individual?
I don't mean this as an attack, and reading it, it may seem as such. I'm just saying that I wouldn't place all of my money on what I "think" he would look like until I have seen the entity myself. Even then, I only will see what I believe I see.
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How you picture him/her
Original post: DocHolliday
I have a difficult time ascribing a form to what I view as a universal force. The best I could do, in terms of imagination, would be to form a "Lillith Kadmon" from the kelippoth.
I have a difficult time ascribing a form to what I view as a universal force. The best I could do, in terms of imagination, would be to form a "Lillith Kadmon" from the kelippoth.
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How you picture him/her
Original post: Mmothra
In all seriousness, I just look in the mirror.
In all seriousness, I just look in the mirror.
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Original post: Belzedek
In regards to a description of Satan ... aka the devil,he has long been portrayed as having horns,in a red body-suit with pointed tail,holding a trident and residing in flames ... strangely all these details are attributed as well to the Vedic god Shiva .... then again,its long been the effort of the Abrahamic religions to make all foreign religions into idolatry,this can be seen in the Persians religion of Zoroastrianism which sought to demonize the gods of the Indus valley dwellers (they of ancient Bharat - modern India).
In reality the word 'satan' merely means an 'adversary',one who opposes or tries the faith of another in the religious sense as can be witnessed in the O.T. book of Job wherein Satan acts as prosecuting attorney as it were in order that Jobs faith could be tested ... another Biblical case is one wherein David was tempted to carry out a census of the people of Israel,in this 'Satan' (perhaps an advisor or else a political opponent urged that he number the people of Israel ... thus Satan isnt some omnipotent arch-enemy with the capacity to confront God in the sense of one with unlimited power,but rather the term merely denotes opposition in the aspect of discernment and definement ... for as most religions teach,everything revolves around polarity ... the idea of opposites,of Yin and Yang,etc ... of male/female,light/darkness,good/evil ... for truly one cannot exist without the other.
In regards to a description of Satan ... aka the devil,he has long been portrayed as having horns,in a red body-suit with pointed tail,holding a trident and residing in flames ... strangely all these details are attributed as well to the Vedic god Shiva .... then again,its long been the effort of the Abrahamic religions to make all foreign religions into idolatry,this can be seen in the Persians religion of Zoroastrianism which sought to demonize the gods of the Indus valley dwellers (they of ancient Bharat - modern India).
In reality the word 'satan' merely means an 'adversary',one who opposes or tries the faith of another in the religious sense as can be witnessed in the O.T. book of Job wherein Satan acts as prosecuting attorney as it were in order that Jobs faith could be tested ... another Biblical case is one wherein David was tempted to carry out a census of the people of Israel,in this 'Satan' (perhaps an advisor or else a political opponent urged that he number the people of Israel ... thus Satan isnt some omnipotent arch-enemy with the capacity to confront God in the sense of one with unlimited power,but rather the term merely denotes opposition in the aspect of discernment and definement ... for as most religions teach,everything revolves around polarity ... the idea of opposites,of Yin and Yang,etc ... of male/female,light/darkness,good/evil ... for truly one cannot exist without the other.
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How you picture him/her
Original post: m1thr0s
I'm kinda partial to the Winged Serpent motif personally and have actually seen this on more than one occasion...though the jeweled aspect knocked me right on my ass...wasn't expecting that for some reason...for me at least this seems to be a masculine facet and I don't know for sure that I have quite identified the feminine side...it's there alright...I just don't quite know how to define it...
I like the "Lord of Lies" bit by the way...that's a very meditative title. In the old Tarot you know the small cards were always called the Lord of this or the Lord of that etc...so "Failure" would be the Lord of Failure et al, which adds a different slant to the card's meaning. I imagine the Lord of Lies in this way...that intelligence most keenly aware of all the lies we tell ourselves and each other...not unlike the Lord of Illusion in East Indian mythology but with particular emphasis on Denial and Deception(s)...most interesting...
m1thr0s
I'm kinda partial to the Winged Serpent motif personally and have actually seen this on more than one occasion...though the jeweled aspect knocked me right on my ass...wasn't expecting that for some reason...for me at least this seems to be a masculine facet and I don't know for sure that I have quite identified the feminine side...it's there alright...I just don't quite know how to define it...
I like the "Lord of Lies" bit by the way...that's a very meditative title. In the old Tarot you know the small cards were always called the Lord of this or the Lord of that etc...so "Failure" would be the Lord of Failure et al, which adds a different slant to the card's meaning. I imagine the Lord of Lies in this way...that intelligence most keenly aware of all the lies we tell ourselves and each other...not unlike the Lord of Illusion in East Indian mythology but with particular emphasis on Denial and Deception(s)...most interesting...
m1thr0s
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How you picture him/her
Original post: ICREX
[QUOTE=m1thr0s]for me at least this seems to be a masculine facet and I don't know for sure that I have quite identified the feminine side...it's there alright...I just don't quite know how to define it...[/quote]
From the point of view I see it, I think that the feminine side cannot actually be defined but only felt, because it lack's all features and is the passive noumenon behind all the active phenomenons. It's quite a classic view, but I think it's very accurate one.
[QUOTE=m1thr0s]I imagine the Lord of Lies in this way...that intelligence most keenly aware of all the lies we tell ourselves and each other...not unlike the Lord of Illusion in East Indian mythology but with particular emphasis on Denial and Deception(s)...most interesting...
m1thr0s[/QUOTE]
I see the 'Lord of Lies' describing the "dark face" of Satan, or the Choronzon. If one is not able to see behind the mask, but stares only it's false and transitory images thinking them as the real face, then "nature" or "god" has the right to destroy these kind of delusions, and it depends on the understanding of the one whether he/she learns or is destroyed with these delusions.
It goes well within those boundaries you described, since we are always digging our own graves when not being honest to ourselves or others. It's the profound work of nature inside the human psyche.
The nameless one with endless faces
The faceless one with thousand a name
This one describes me perfectly how I see "the prince of darkness". When it takes a form - be it human or any other - it is not stricted to a simple definitions, but can be anything it wishes depending on the situation.
When it comes to symbolism, I'm fond of the Serpent-figure since it points to me features like knowledge, wisdom, power, understanding. It also describes to me human's Luciferian quality in the form of the Fire Serpent (Kundalini) that resides inside everyone, waiting to be awakened.
[QUOTE=m1thr0s]for me at least this seems to be a masculine facet and I don't know for sure that I have quite identified the feminine side...it's there alright...I just don't quite know how to define it...[/quote]
From the point of view I see it, I think that the feminine side cannot actually be defined but only felt, because it lack's all features and is the passive noumenon behind all the active phenomenons. It's quite a classic view, but I think it's very accurate one.
[QUOTE=m1thr0s]I imagine the Lord of Lies in this way...that intelligence most keenly aware of all the lies we tell ourselves and each other...not unlike the Lord of Illusion in East Indian mythology but with particular emphasis on Denial and Deception(s)...most interesting...
m1thr0s[/QUOTE]
I see the 'Lord of Lies' describing the "dark face" of Satan, or the Choronzon. If one is not able to see behind the mask, but stares only it's false and transitory images thinking them as the real face, then "nature" or "god" has the right to destroy these kind of delusions, and it depends on the understanding of the one whether he/she learns or is destroyed with these delusions.
It goes well within those boundaries you described, since we are always digging our own graves when not being honest to ourselves or others. It's the profound work of nature inside the human psyche.
The nameless one with endless faces
The faceless one with thousand a name
This one describes me perfectly how I see "the prince of darkness". When it takes a form - be it human or any other - it is not stricted to a simple definitions, but can be anything it wishes depending on the situation.
When it comes to symbolism, I'm fond of the Serpent-figure since it points to me features like knowledge, wisdom, power, understanding. It also describes to me human's Luciferian quality in the form of the Fire Serpent (Kundalini) that resides inside everyone, waiting to be awakened.
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Original post: frater luciferi
its kind of confusing for me, On one hand I like "being" lucifer. on the other I view lucifer as a light bearer- the winged seraphim from christian theology? but on the other hand I kind of like "finding" lucifer in different cultures. I guess it is a sort of way for me to "prove" his existance or her existance. I like to relate the baphomet to lucifer- or more exactly as a part of the archetype to "become" as lucifer. I dunno, maybe I should go through all my notes and studies and the like and just create some sort of wierd beast picture so i can have a "literal" figure of lucifer. And if your asking if I believe if lucifer is satan? I don't even know if that is relative to the whole thing or not either. I mean really the whole eclectic approach has both been pretty beneficial on one hand becuase really? how much do we really know about the christian devil? I mean I have a huge collection of pictures or depictions of the "devil" or satan or even the "fallen angel" depiction that goes with the christian theological leap of lucifer as satan.
Its all pretty damn confusing. Even the christian theologians could'nt get it entirely strait, because odviously satan has to be a shape shifter otherwise. I guess I do like the satan archetype, and as much view satan as a seperate entity from lucifer? and you might ask me how i got to this coclusion? well satan is entirely a christian invention as well as the whole idea of hell = but its not really a bad way of explaining a sort of duality though? i mean we do have a sort of fleshen side to our nature a carnal side, and on that archetypal flipside lucifer is a kinda pure spiritual entity you know? a creature of light and all that?
Who says that satan has to be bad persay? I particularly like how levayan satanism or even theistic satanism gives satan the purveyor of a primal energie that in essence is a harmony and balance that exists in nature. However i really don't think that its neccesary to really confuse the archetypes? perhaps i can later on back up my ramblings with some semblance of logic otherwise- but I find in my own eclectic approach to magick and theology (especially interpritation) I have had to be really creative at times trying to fill in the blanks between different systems of thought.
I find it explictly assinine that any sort of divinity would have any responsibilitie for the travesty that humanity has evolved into? other then a malevolant one. So odviously lucifer to me is the liberator of man- of which we are to be freed of the chains of ignorace, as as much to help us realize our god-nature. I don't really see a need to complicate this at all as much. I find it much easier to argue the malevolance of god and the benevolance of lucifer then to fill in the odvious huge flaws in logic most western esoterist have used a convienient dualism to fill in. Odviously though i should really sit with my notes and do a better job of fleshing out who this lucifer character is to me, and I guess satant too. I suppose I can basically go along with what mithros has said as far as trying to define what he/she is.
But then again I think in some aspects that lucifer comes to us all in ways we can best perceive him/her. We all have a different sort of perspective. It would make sense if this creature was truely one who transcends our understanding in that aspect.
its kind of confusing for me, On one hand I like "being" lucifer. on the other I view lucifer as a light bearer- the winged seraphim from christian theology? but on the other hand I kind of like "finding" lucifer in different cultures. I guess it is a sort of way for me to "prove" his existance or her existance. I like to relate the baphomet to lucifer- or more exactly as a part of the archetype to "become" as lucifer. I dunno, maybe I should go through all my notes and studies and the like and just create some sort of wierd beast picture so i can have a "literal" figure of lucifer. And if your asking if I believe if lucifer is satan? I don't even know if that is relative to the whole thing or not either. I mean really the whole eclectic approach has both been pretty beneficial on one hand becuase really? how much do we really know about the christian devil? I mean I have a huge collection of pictures or depictions of the "devil" or satan or even the "fallen angel" depiction that goes with the christian theological leap of lucifer as satan.
Its all pretty damn confusing. Even the christian theologians could'nt get it entirely strait, because odviously satan has to be a shape shifter otherwise. I guess I do like the satan archetype, and as much view satan as a seperate entity from lucifer? and you might ask me how i got to this coclusion? well satan is entirely a christian invention as well as the whole idea of hell = but its not really a bad way of explaining a sort of duality though? i mean we do have a sort of fleshen side to our nature a carnal side, and on that archetypal flipside lucifer is a kinda pure spiritual entity you know? a creature of light and all that?
Who says that satan has to be bad persay? I particularly like how levayan satanism or even theistic satanism gives satan the purveyor of a primal energie that in essence is a harmony and balance that exists in nature. However i really don't think that its neccesary to really confuse the archetypes? perhaps i can later on back up my ramblings with some semblance of logic otherwise- but I find in my own eclectic approach to magick and theology (especially interpritation) I have had to be really creative at times trying to fill in the blanks between different systems of thought.
I find it explictly assinine that any sort of divinity would have any responsibilitie for the travesty that humanity has evolved into? other then a malevolant one. So odviously lucifer to me is the liberator of man- of which we are to be freed of the chains of ignorace, as as much to help us realize our god-nature. I don't really see a need to complicate this at all as much. I find it much easier to argue the malevolance of god and the benevolance of lucifer then to fill in the odvious huge flaws in logic most western esoterist have used a convienient dualism to fill in. Odviously though i should really sit with my notes and do a better job of fleshing out who this lucifer character is to me, and I guess satant too. I suppose I can basically go along with what mithros has said as far as trying to define what he/she is.
But then again I think in some aspects that lucifer comes to us all in ways we can best perceive him/her. We all have a different sort of perspective. It would make sense if this creature was truely one who transcends our understanding in that aspect.
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Original post: morning star
[QUOTE=Mmothra]In all seriousness, I just look in the mirror.[/QUOTE]
this is about right. (prince of darkness? dont think so)
[QUOTE=Mmothra]In all seriousness, I just look in the mirror.[/QUOTE]
this is about right. (prince of darkness? dont think so)
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How you picture him/her
Original post: ÃÂ
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Original post: Hoor-paar-Kraat
I tend to take the approach that it's rather foolish to attempt to put a human(oid) form to such a deity.
I tend to take the approach that it's rather foolish to attempt to put a human(oid) form to such a deity.
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Original post: ÃÂ
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Original post: Hoor-paar-Kraat
Well, I have yet to meet old Scratch, nor have I had any desire to, but if I ever do then we can compare notes
Well, I have yet to meet old Scratch, nor have I had any desire to, but if I ever do then we can compare notes
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Original post: die before death
The matter depends entirely on which reality I need to shatter.
The matter depends entirely on which reality I need to shatter.
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Original post: Venus666
Hi
although it would be nice to see satan in a human form, i do not believe it is possible. Satan is an essence, and a spirit, emotion he is eternal darkness. A force.
We created gods in our image, not the other way around. Gods are not human, they are astral, spiritual. I am sure, tho, that as a spirit with his type of powers, satan is capable of making illusions, like a hologram (think summoning, whtever you think appears as an image)>
If it helps you to visualise it in that way, that is your choice. I cann not do this as I would be decieving myself into thinking that Satan had some kind of form, as a human. I prefer to see it as a force. A very dark force.
Hi
although it would be nice to see satan in a human form, i do not believe it is possible. Satan is an essence, and a spirit, emotion he is eternal darkness. A force.
We created gods in our image, not the other way around. Gods are not human, they are astral, spiritual. I am sure, tho, that as a spirit with his type of powers, satan is capable of making illusions, like a hologram (think summoning, whtever you think appears as an image)>
If it helps you to visualise it in that way, that is your choice. I cann not do this as I would be decieving myself into thinking that Satan had some kind of form, as a human. I prefer to see it as a force. A very dark force.
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Original post: Qryztufre
[QUOTE=Mmothra]In all seriousness, I just look in the mirror. [/quote]
Is this a play on words? Are you referring to yourself here or are you referring to you summoning up the big guy via evokation?
Q
[QUOTE=Mmothra]In all seriousness, I just look in the mirror. [/quote]
Is this a play on words? Are you referring to yourself here or are you referring to you summoning up the big guy via evokation?
Q
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Original post: Mmothra
[QUOTE=Qryztufre][/color]
Is this a play on words? Are you referring to yourself here or are you referring to you summoning up the big guy via evokation?
Q
[/QUOTE]Fair question and thanks for taking the time to ask.
As I have probably mentioned elsewhere or is evident through my postings, I am an agnostic regarding the supernatural in general; in my view it is impossible to determine a crisp dividing line between what is self and other and this difficulty prevents us from making any definitive claims. A pretentious response to your question (and one I almost used
) might be "I am all that is." The problem is that I don't (and can't) know that for certain. However, I can deduce from history and experience that the greatest "evil" and the greatest "good" have both sprung from pretty ordinary primates like myself. When I look in the mirror and consider the reflection honestly, I see a monkey capable of almost anything. That's what I meant.
Does that make sense?
[QUOTE=Qryztufre][/color]
Is this a play on words? Are you referring to yourself here or are you referring to you summoning up the big guy via evokation?
Q
[/QUOTE]Fair question and thanks for taking the time to ask.
As I have probably mentioned elsewhere or is evident through my postings, I am an agnostic regarding the supernatural in general; in my view it is impossible to determine a crisp dividing line between what is self and other and this difficulty prevents us from making any definitive claims. A pretentious response to your question (and one I almost used
) might be "I am all that is." The problem is that I don't (and can't) know that for certain. However, I can deduce from history and experience that the greatest "evil" and the greatest "good" have both sprung from pretty ordinary primates like myself. When I look in the mirror and consider the reflection honestly, I see a monkey capable of almost anything. That's what I meant.Does that make sense?
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Original post: Qryztufre
Thanks fer clearing that up...
I originally read it and thought nothing of it...assuming that you were refering to your reflection and I dropped the matter as making perfect sense. LATER, while wandering the other forums something poked me and kindled the question of what was really meant.
Now personally, I can't answer the question until I've seen him in the mirror (one way or the other).
Q
Thanks fer clearing that up...
I originally read it and thought nothing of it...assuming that you were refering to your reflection and I dropped the matter as making perfect sense. LATER, while wandering the other forums something poked me and kindled the question of what was really meant.
Now personally, I can't answer the question until I've seen him in the mirror (one way or the other).
Q
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Original post: Inuus Grim
It should be obvious that I was not asking symbolic or atheistic Satanists this question. If you have no theistic belief, then go somewhere else.
The other responses in this thread are interesting. Venus666's response was the most interesting to me. If an individual likes to picture what Satan/Lucifer/Azazel/'or whoever' looks like, well cool that's just them. I don't know what the Prince of Darkness looks like, but I find it necessary to picture him because I am a practitoner who is deeply fascinated with him.
In all seriousness, I just look in the mirror.
this is about right. (prince of darkness? dont think so)
It should be obvious that I was not asking symbolic or atheistic Satanists this question. If you have no theistic belief, then go somewhere else.
The other responses in this thread are interesting. Venus666's response was the most interesting to me. If an individual likes to picture what Satan/Lucifer/Azazel/'or whoever' looks like, well cool that's just them. I don't know what the Prince of Darkness looks like, but I find it necessary to picture him because I am a practitoner who is deeply fascinated with him.
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Original post: morning star
[QUOTE=Inuus Grim]It should be obvious that I was not asking symbolic or atheistic Satanists this question. If you have no theistic belief, then go somewhere else.[/QUOTE]
i don't see lucifer as the prince of darkness i see him as the light bearer, a miunderstood entity.
[QUOTE=Inuus Grim]It should be obvious that I was not asking symbolic or atheistic Satanists this question. If you have no theistic belief, then go somewhere else.[/QUOTE]
i don't see lucifer as the prince of darkness i see him as the light bearer, a miunderstood entity.
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Original post: morning star
*misunderstood
*misunderstood
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Original post: Venus666
The danger of attaching or equating a form to "satan" is that you will instead create a servitor, or ergregore, which in a way is useless. Unless it was that servitors duty to act as a messenger or liason between you and satan. But why take the extra step or energy to do this...hahaha
Don think for one second that satan is not an ergregore. He is made of many parts. The christians see him as evil... the wiccans see him as pan.... there are many facets of his being
The danger of attaching or equating a form to "satan" is that you will instead create a servitor, or ergregore, which in a way is useless. Unless it was that servitors duty to act as a messenger or liason between you and satan. But why take the extra step or energy to do this...hahaha
Don think for one second that satan is not an ergregore. He is made of many parts. The christians see him as evil... the wiccans see him as pan.... there are many facets of his being
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Original post: Inuus Grim
I myself see 'the prince' as a dark god who brings light. To me he is the Prince of Darkness who brings illumination to individuals. Since he is so misunderstood, he might actually be a god of light who brings darkness...
Luciferianism is a subject that has been very interesting to me recently.
Ahh ok.i don't see lucifer as the prince of darkness i see him as the light bearer, a miunderstood entity.
I myself see 'the prince' as a dark god who brings light. To me he is the Prince of Darkness who brings illumination to individuals. Since he is so misunderstood, he might actually be a god of light who brings darkness...
Luciferianism is a subject that has been very interesting to me recently.
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Original post: Darroth
http://membres.lycos.fr/diablo2land/diablo.gif
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/2026/itn.jpg
Depends on my mood
http://membres.lycos.fr/diablo2land/diablo.gif
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Parthenon/2026/itn.jpg
Depends on my mood
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Original post: Infidel
[QUOTE=Mmothra]In all seriousness, I just look in the mirror.[/QUOTE]
I feel the same way on a micro level.
On a macro level I visualize the universe as best I can with all its awesome power which can't help but overshadow the fragility of life and consciousness.
[QUOTE=Mmothra]In all seriousness, I just look in the mirror.[/QUOTE]
I feel the same way on a micro level.
On a macro level I visualize the universe as best I can with all its awesome power which can't help but overshadow the fragility of life and consciousness.