Original post: Silverback2001
This is something that I've been thinking about for a little while now. I have limited experience with working with deities in a multiple sense, however I have had a lot of experience working with Anubis. The story behind that is..odd to say the least, but my experiences have interested me in looking more deeply at the connection between deity and worshiper.
Who chooses who? Does the God/Goddess choose the person, based on similar characteristics to themselves, and nudge the person in their direction? Does the person just happen to find a God/Goddess that they decide to work with?
I'm asking this, because in my case it seems like it might be a bit of both. I had been hiking along some cliffs in a desert, when the path I was testing gave way, with me on it. I started falling down a cliff, but managed to grab ahold of a fist-sized rock, sticking out of the side. I tried to pull myself up multiple times, but failed. I had turned away from the Christian religion before then, had explored Wicca, but didn't think it was my cup of tea. Not knowing who I should call for divine aid, I started calling out names pantheon by pantheon. I went through the Greek pantheon, and got no reply, Roman, no reply, and was about half-way through what I knew of the Egyptian pantheon, when I finally called out to Anubis. It was strange.. I suddenly felt a surge of confidence, and tried pulling myself up with the rock again. The other times, it had come looser and looser in the sandstone when I tried. This time, it held fast. I managed to pull myself up, and thanked the God who I knew had held the stone in place, and given me the strength I needed.
I didn't think much more of it for another couple of years. Suddenly, Anubis started appearing in my dreams, giving me advice now and then, and treated me more like an old friend, than a potential follower.
Other things happened over time with him, and eventually I started working with him as my patron deity.
Recent meditations have revealed to me that I have a lot more in common with Anubis than I had previously thought. Anubis was never accepted by Set his father/(stepfather?) and the same is really true in regards to the relationship between my parents and I. It's things like that, that led me to take on a very protective mindset when it comes to those I care about. Wanting to help others also led to my interest in healing and herbalism. Anubis is also known as the Patron of Orphans and Lost Souls, as well as a Keeper of Medicinal knowledge.
There are lots of other similarities as well, all prior to when I began my work with Anubis.
So did I choose Anubis? or did Anubis choose me? In the case of the gods being archetypal in nature, did the part of me that resonates with the Anubis archetype get tapped by my Will, and save my life? There are so many things I have yet to understand about working with gods. I love the mysteries, but the fun is in the journey to the answers.
What do you think? What experiences have you had with choosing a deity, or being chosen by them?
Deities - do you choose them, or do they choose you?
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Deities - do you choose them, or do they choose you?
Original post: Darkwater
Nice one Silverback.
I got a nice picture of you dangling from a rock in the middle of nowhere, somewhere over the abyss?thankfully,successfully hauling yourself out.pml.
I resonate more with Setian method,only having recently discovered that it is synonymous with the laws of the street where I grew up.
Similarly,I self realised that Asteroth has been big with my people since before the manifestation of Scotland(873ad),before Scots were named in battle in Ireland alongside our brothers the Gaels,before Gaels arrived in Spain via Scythia & Tyrreah,before the Gaels basked in the wealth & fortune of the most advanced culture on Earth at the time,Ancient Egypt.
The Scots,if you trace our line via the sacred female Princess Scota,daughter of the Pharoah,have always approached our deities in due and ancient form.I maybe need to check out more of the Egyptian Panthion to assess who else is envoked by the troops.
I never knew that about Anubis,the traits that you describe I would have associated with my sacred femenine beliefs,Sekhmet.
I was kinda thrust upon her a wee bit,though she thinks I am ok.She did me a big favour in early January last year,on the basis that she agreed with my assessment & acted accordingly with her usual deadly prowess,knowing her enemy upon sight.
I am just glad that I proved to be worthy of her favours.
Is there no help for the widow's son?
All the best
DW
I feel strongly that I have been blessed with another spirit guide just recently.Just now I am thinking that the Cow has sent me a wise elephant spirit to guide my path.I initially call the elephant "Tantor" which is probably more African in origin?Its makes him smile.lol.He calls me a lot worse.lol
Nice one Silverback.
I got a nice picture of you dangling from a rock in the middle of nowhere, somewhere over the abyss?thankfully,successfully hauling yourself out.pml.
I resonate more with Setian method,only having recently discovered that it is synonymous with the laws of the street where I grew up.
Similarly,I self realised that Asteroth has been big with my people since before the manifestation of Scotland(873ad),before Scots were named in battle in Ireland alongside our brothers the Gaels,before Gaels arrived in Spain via Scythia & Tyrreah,before the Gaels basked in the wealth & fortune of the most advanced culture on Earth at the time,Ancient Egypt.
The Scots,if you trace our line via the sacred female Princess Scota,daughter of the Pharoah,have always approached our deities in due and ancient form.I maybe need to check out more of the Egyptian Panthion to assess who else is envoked by the troops.
I never knew that about Anubis,the traits that you describe I would have associated with my sacred femenine beliefs,Sekhmet.
I was kinda thrust upon her a wee bit,though she thinks I am ok.She did me a big favour in early January last year,on the basis that she agreed with my assessment & acted accordingly with her usual deadly prowess,knowing her enemy upon sight.
I am just glad that I proved to be worthy of her favours.
Is there no help for the widow's son?
All the best
DW
I feel strongly that I have been blessed with another spirit guide just recently.Just now I am thinking that the Cow has sent me a wise elephant spirit to guide my path.I initially call the elephant "Tantor" which is probably more African in origin?Its makes him smile.lol.He calls me a lot worse.lol
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Deities - do you choose them, or do they choose you?
Original post: Serenity
My opinion is that gods choose people, why else would someone be inclined to follow one over the other?
your experiance seems to support that
My opinion is that gods choose people, why else would someone be inclined to follow one over the other?
your experiance seems to support that
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Deities - do you choose them, or do they choose you?
Original post: Alfheim
I have a feeling that Odin might have chosen me despite my liking for Thor. I seem to have too much in common with some Odinic heroes.
I have a feeling that Odin might have chosen me despite my liking for Thor. I seem to have too much in common with some Odinic heroes.
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Deities - do you choose them, or do they choose you?
Original post: Necrosapien
Ultimately we have the power of choice. The powers that be may present us with an opportunity but we can say whether or not we want anything to do with it/he/she/them.
I had a dream about Ra. He showed up, said, "I am Ra," and I shot at him with a .44 Magnum. *shrugs* I guess I didn't want anything to do with him. I don't think I've heard from him since.
At the same time I've tried to get the attention of YHVH and struggling to be recognized by him. I don't know if I'm getting anywhere and I feel quite alone at times. He's the only deity I have ever known or felt like I've been close to, (aside from the figure of Jesus...who I'm having issues taking a step in blind faith and will not do so unless he actually does something to make me believe he's anything more than a person deified...) yet I do not feel I have his approval.
So I don't know. Sometimes we choose them...sometimes they choose us...and sometimes things just fall into place.
Ultimately we have the power of choice. The powers that be may present us with an opportunity but we can say whether or not we want anything to do with it/he/she/them.
I had a dream about Ra. He showed up, said, "I am Ra," and I shot at him with a .44 Magnum. *shrugs* I guess I didn't want anything to do with him. I don't think I've heard from him since.
At the same time I've tried to get the attention of YHVH and struggling to be recognized by him. I don't know if I'm getting anywhere and I feel quite alone at times. He's the only deity I have ever known or felt like I've been close to, (aside from the figure of Jesus...who I'm having issues taking a step in blind faith and will not do so unless he actually does something to make me believe he's anything more than a person deified...) yet I do not feel I have his approval.
So I don't know. Sometimes we choose them...sometimes they choose us...and sometimes things just fall into place.
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Deities - do you choose them, or do they choose you?
Original post: esoterica
it takes two to tango, as they say
you may have a great interest in a god or goddess, but they don't care for you or whatever
a god or goddess may have great interest in you , but like ns said, we have free will, so if you don't look to them they can't force you to
i found my dieties sneaking around in the images i saw when i closed my eyes!
es
it takes two to tango, as they say
you may have a great interest in a god or goddess, but they don't care for you or whatever
a god or goddess may have great interest in you , but like ns said, we have free will, so if you don't look to them they can't force you to
i found my dieties sneaking around in the images i saw when i closed my eyes!
es
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Deities - do you choose them, or do they choose you?
Original post: Solomon
Interesting way to find your god, Silverback! Would like to think one of the gods/goddesses would help me out if I were dangling over a cliff, lol. As for me, I utilize whatever deity happens to be aligned with whatever spell or ritual I'm going to do.
For an example, when I first started working with deities, as an experiment I did a general love/lust spell using Freya. Researching and contemplating upon Freya's aspects, decided that she might like a nice melodic love song written in praise of her, and did so. Sang my song to her and made my request for a lover. Then sort of forgot about it until a few weeks later when I had to go to a local hardware store for some parts. There were two very attractive girls working there in their late teens and they both kept checking me out and staring at me, mesmerized, as if I had cast a spell on them. One of them rang me up and was all shy and smiling.
It wasn't until an hour or two later that I realized Freya had been working her charms for me. And of course, the ladies worked at a hardware store, where perhaps the most common tool one thinks of would be a hammer - a symbol of Thor and a tie to the Norse pantheon of Freya.
So I guess the answer is, sometimes you choose a god, sometimes they choose you.
Interesting way to find your god, Silverback! Would like to think one of the gods/goddesses would help me out if I were dangling over a cliff, lol. As for me, I utilize whatever deity happens to be aligned with whatever spell or ritual I'm going to do.
For an example, when I first started working with deities, as an experiment I did a general love/lust spell using Freya. Researching and contemplating upon Freya's aspects, decided that she might like a nice melodic love song written in praise of her, and did so. Sang my song to her and made my request for a lover. Then sort of forgot about it until a few weeks later when I had to go to a local hardware store for some parts. There were two very attractive girls working there in their late teens and they both kept checking me out and staring at me, mesmerized, as if I had cast a spell on them. One of them rang me up and was all shy and smiling.
It wasn't until an hour or two later that I realized Freya had been working her charms for me. And of course, the ladies worked at a hardware store, where perhaps the most common tool one thinks of would be a hammer - a symbol of Thor and a tie to the Norse pantheon of Freya.
So I guess the answer is, sometimes you choose a god, sometimes they choose you.
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Deities - do you choose them, or do they choose you?
Original post: Rin Daemoko
I agree with those who said it's a little of both. Certainly if there were not a bit of our gods in ourselves, they may not have an interest in us. We may well be the sons and daughters of our patron and matron divinities, which could be why we have earned their attention. And, like all good parents, they may simply be trying to get us to become the gods that we, ourselves, are. To become divine in our own right.
Children are seldom clones of their parents, but they often have a hand in shaping their progeny. In my opinion.
I agree with those who said it's a little of both. Certainly if there were not a bit of our gods in ourselves, they may not have an interest in us. We may well be the sons and daughters of our patron and matron divinities, which could be why we have earned their attention. And, like all good parents, they may simply be trying to get us to become the gods that we, ourselves, are. To become divine in our own right.
Children are seldom clones of their parents, but they often have a hand in shaping their progeny. In my opinion.
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Deities - do you choose them, or do they choose you?
Original post: thefifthlord
You are your own god, What has created you is a desire to live; A deity which has interest in you simply has granted you your wish to live. I believe that we are all in a way gods , we have the ability to shape our world, to cultivate it, to destroy it, to build it and most of all we have the ability to give life and to take it away. If that does not match the description of a god i dont know what does.
You are your own god, What has created you is a desire to live; A deity which has interest in you simply has granted you your wish to live. I believe that we are all in a way gods , we have the ability to shape our world, to cultivate it, to destroy it, to build it and most of all we have the ability to give life and to take it away. If that does not match the description of a god i dont know what does.
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Deities - do you choose them, or do they choose you?
Original post: Silverback2001
[quote="Rin Daemoko;247783"] I agree with those who said it's a little of both. Certainly if there were not a bit of our gods in ourselves, they may not have an interest in us. We may well be the sons and daughters of our patron and matron divinities, which could be why we have earned their attention. And, like all good parents, they may simply be trying to get us to become the gods that we, ourselves, are. To become divine in our own right.
Children are seldom clones of their parents, but they often have a hand in shaping their progeny. In my opinion.[/quote
That's an interesting point. In my time working with Anubis, he always seems to be nurturing me in one way or another, so that I can grow "beyond" him, or so he tells me. That's when he's not pointing out to me that I got myself into an issue, and I need to dig myself out without his help
It's an interesting experience.
Thanks to everyone else for the replies too btw. It's nice knowing I didn't kill a thread for once I also agree so far with the idea that both the deity chooses the person and the person chooses the deity. I don't think a relationship between a god/goddess and a person would work out very well, without them finding a reason to approve of each other.
[quote="Rin Daemoko;247783"] I agree with those who said it's a little of both. Certainly if there were not a bit of our gods in ourselves, they may not have an interest in us. We may well be the sons and daughters of our patron and matron divinities, which could be why we have earned their attention. And, like all good parents, they may simply be trying to get us to become the gods that we, ourselves, are. To become divine in our own right.
Children are seldom clones of their parents, but they often have a hand in shaping their progeny. In my opinion.[/quote
That's an interesting point. In my time working with Anubis, he always seems to be nurturing me in one way or another, so that I can grow "beyond" him, or so he tells me. That's when he's not pointing out to me that I got myself into an issue, and I need to dig myself out without his help
It's an interesting experience. Thanks to everyone else for the replies too btw. It's nice knowing I didn't kill a thread for once
I also agree so far with the idea that both the deity chooses the person and the person chooses the deity. I don't think a relationship between a god/goddess and a person would work out very well, without them finding a reason to approve of each other.-
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Deities - do you choose them, or do they choose you?
Original post: Rin Daemoko
I get the same nurturing-esque thing form him. Well, like you said, when he's not coaxing me into getting myself out of a mess instead.
I get the same nurturing-esque thing form him. Well, like you said, when he's not coaxing me into getting myself out of a mess instead.
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Deities - do you choose them, or do they choose you?
Original post: Alugarde
Ya'all may find this story interesting...back in high school, there was a period of two or three days in which we were reading and discussing "The Raven" in our lit. class...and one morning..I think it was the last day of our discussion...as my bus was pulling into the school grounds, I saw this huge black bird walking along the ground, and, remembering the story we'd been reading, it stood out to me. I remember feeling some sudden, intense connection to the Raven, but I soon forgot about it. Years later (about five of them), a friend of mine convinced me to look into finding a spirit guide, and guess who showed up.
Also, count me in on the "two-to-tango" view. High school was when Raven noticed me, college was when I noticed Raven, and there wasn't really any relationship possible until that point.
Ya'all may find this story interesting...back in high school, there was a period of two or three days in which we were reading and discussing "The Raven" in our lit. class...and one morning..I think it was the last day of our discussion...as my bus was pulling into the school grounds, I saw this huge black bird walking along the ground, and, remembering the story we'd been reading, it stood out to me. I remember feeling some sudden, intense connection to the Raven, but I soon forgot about it. Years later (about five of them), a friend of mine convinced me to look into finding a spirit guide, and guess who showed up.
Also, count me in on the "two-to-tango" view. High school was when Raven noticed me, college was when I noticed Raven, and there wasn't really any relationship possible until that point.
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Deities - do you choose them, or do they choose you?
Original post: Aunt Clair
What do you think? What experiences have you had with choosing a deity, or being chosen by them?
I chose Christ and the principle archangels . They appear with love to all .
White Eagle and Quan Yen chose us in circle but they are world teachers to many . I love them but we are not special .
We chose Horus and Thoth . But I feel they often appear to magicians without evocation .
Interstingly Anubis chose us as he did you . He seems to appear in qlippoth lessons with great compassion .
Cerunnos , Morgan le Fae and Rhiannon chose us .I feel certain this is because of past lives as druids and celtic pagans .
Sometimes , I think it is difficult to learn who sought whom .
I think it works both ways . Some teachers chose us and appear without evocation to us in dreams and in circle and in visions when we are not even tuned in . Perhaps we chose them first in a past life connection . Perhaps we met their vibration and they take interest in our pathworking or they appear because it is time for a certain part of our curriculum at which they are expert spirit teachers . And perhaps we sought them out in higher self or during dreamstate and just do not recall it . Certainly there is syncronicity involved too ." When the student is ready , the teacher will appear "But there is also choice as we can choose who to evoke .Silverback2001;247487 wrote:Who chooses who? Does the God/Goddess choose the person, based on similar characteristics to themselves, and nudge the person in their direction? Does the person just happen to find a God/Goddess that they decide to work with?
I concur.I'm asking this, because in my case it seems like it might be a bit of both.
What do you think? What experiences have you had with choosing a deity, or being chosen by them?
I chose Christ and the principle archangels . They appear with love to all .
White Eagle and Quan Yen chose us in circle but they are world teachers to many . I love them but we are not special .
We chose Horus and Thoth . But I feel they often appear to magicians without evocation .
Interstingly Anubis chose us as he did you . He seems to appear in qlippoth lessons with great compassion .
Cerunnos , Morgan le Fae and Rhiannon chose us .I feel certain this is because of past lives as druids and celtic pagans .
Sometimes , I think it is difficult to learn who sought whom .
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Deities - do you choose them, or do they choose you?
Original post: meadhbh03
I agree with those who said it is a bit of both. For the most part a god isn't going to force you into a relationship you aren't ready for. They mighht gibe you small pushes in the right direction though. For me Brighid was there in background but was willing to wait until I was ready for her to step in. Because there are somethings gods can teach you and there are things you need to learn on your own.
I agree with those who said it is a bit of both. For the most part a god isn't going to force you into a relationship you aren't ready for. They mighht gibe you small pushes in the right direction though. For me Brighid was there in background but was willing to wait until I was ready for her to step in. Because there are somethings gods can teach you and there are things you need to learn on your own.
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Deities - do you choose them, or do they choose you?
Original post: Kath_
Personally, my experience was definately one of being chosen, not of choosing.
I was freshly free of my entanglements in christianity. I was exploring the occult/spiritual, but I know, because of my troubles in christianity, I held very negative feelings about organized religion and deities at that point. I was developing myself as an agnostic or borderline atheist magic practicioner with a philosophical outlook rather than a religion.
Then she came along. First in dreams, then durring astral projections, etc. She opened my eyes to entwining similarities between her and I, ties between us on a very deep level. And she more or less took me under her wing as companion, mentor, and 'more'.
We do not have a heirarchial relationship as seems to be common to most religions. I look up to her, but I've never averted my eyes or behaved in any way subservient. I have no feelings of inferiority towards her, but I recognize she knows a lot more than I do, and is significantly more magically powerfull. I treat it like anything else though. If your neighbor was a great tennis player, would you feel in any way 'lesser'? Not really. Not me anyway.
She definately singled me out, and I definately wasn't looking for her. But I'm glad she did. She has become one of the most significant and most formative facets of my life. I love her.
Personally, my experience was definately one of being chosen, not of choosing.
I was freshly free of my entanglements in christianity. I was exploring the occult/spiritual, but I know, because of my troubles in christianity, I held very negative feelings about organized religion and deities at that point. I was developing myself as an agnostic or borderline atheist magic practicioner with a philosophical outlook rather than a religion.
Then she came along. First in dreams, then durring astral projections, etc. She opened my eyes to entwining similarities between her and I, ties between us on a very deep level. And she more or less took me under her wing as companion, mentor, and 'more'.
We do not have a heirarchial relationship as seems to be common to most religions. I look up to her, but I've never averted my eyes or behaved in any way subservient. I have no feelings of inferiority towards her, but I recognize she knows a lot more than I do, and is significantly more magically powerfull. I treat it like anything else though. If your neighbor was a great tennis player, would you feel in any way 'lesser'? Not really. Not me anyway.
She definately singled me out, and I definately wasn't looking for her. But I'm glad she did. She has become one of the most significant and most formative facets of my life. I love her.
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Deities - do you choose them, or do they choose you?
Original post: Spartra16
I have one question, does astral projection actually work..it seems really far fetched
I have one question, does astral projection actually work..it seems really far fetched
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Deities - do you choose them, or do they choose you?
Original post: m.namasivayam
God and Godesses are in the concepts level derived from myths.They are man made.
But deities are unlike God/Goddesses. They are in the spirit level.More powerfull.They provide instant energy to the worshippers.
It is obvious that the deities are chosing their own worshippers.the Others can watch the relationship between the deity and the worshipper.
see this:
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=33k7qxe
God and Godesses are in the concepts level derived from myths.They are man made.
But deities are unlike God/Goddesses. They are in the spirit level.More powerfull.They provide instant energy to the worshippers.
It is obvious that the deities are chosing their own worshippers.the Others can watch the relationship between the deity and the worshipper.
see this:
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=33k7qxe
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Deities - do you choose them, or do they choose you?
Original post: RandomRainbow
This is an interesting topic. I do believe, like most of you, that it is a bit of both. When it comes to goddesses, its Artemis all the way for me. Sometimes I think it's the same as real life, when you sometimes start to make friends with people who you wouldnt expect. I have been approached by beings who i certainly didnt expect, one of those being Azrael, the so-called angel of death. I soon discovered that there was so much more to him than just being the angel of death, and he has always been there to help me past spiritual blocks, so overall i have to say that i agree with Aunt Clair's post fully.
PS. I have had the honour of meeting Anubis once completely out of the blue. I was watching an Ancient Egyptian program and he showed up and said something and left..im still trying to figure that out lol
This is an interesting topic. I do believe, like most of you, that it is a bit of both. When it comes to goddesses, its Artemis all the way for me. Sometimes I think it's the same as real life, when you sometimes start to make friends with people who you wouldnt expect. I have been approached by beings who i certainly didnt expect, one of those being Azrael, the so-called angel of death. I soon discovered that there was so much more to him than just being the angel of death, and he has always been there to help me past spiritual blocks, so overall i have to say that i agree with Aunt Clair's post fully.
PS. I have had the honour of meeting Anubis once completely out of the blue. I was watching an Ancient Egyptian program and he showed up and said something and left..im still trying to figure that out lol
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Deities - do you choose them, or do they choose you?
Original post: sami999x
Actually, I think it's a very bad modern misconception that the magicians choose deities. In the city in Bangladesh where my dad's ancestors are from, there are Muslim or Hindu mystics living close to every shrine or holy temple. And none of these people have gained their psychokinetic or other powers by doing rituals and other bogus stuff. They all claim that their spirit guides, spirit rulers, or deities chose them back when they were young and started giving them visions, dreams, and etc. My patron goddess also chose me back when I didn't practice the occult, because she was my master and relative in a past life too. At first, I thought she was some imaginary-pseudo-mommy. But then the sufis in that city made me realize that she was actually there and they could see her too.
I'm not making some kind of an anti-Western claim that states "Gods only chose Easterns while Westerns have to do rituals". But in the West or any other place where "magical orders" exist, these "experienced magical practicioners" view spirits as "mental-archetypes". But in the East, these spirits are viewed as "residents of other worlds". And in fact, I know 2 people who were born right here in North America that were chosen by deities that gave them visions, powers and dreams. But they were both told by ritualists that their deities were just imagination. And both of these people ended up calling themselves "Chaos Magicians " and "Schizophrenics" who "work with entities that are their own creations". What they did was, by disbelieving, they cut off an "astral piece" of their deities and made them their own familiars. The same thing happened to me after a ritualist person told me that my deities are just my imaginations and I'm mentally ill. And when I started believing him, I started having emotional problems because of thinking I was living in some kind of a schizoid delusion. And then I cut off astral pieces from my deities and turned them into servitors. But then again, thanks to an Eastern mystic who was also chosen by his deities, I reunited with and reinvoked all my gods and elementals and started reciving physical signs again. And I surrendered all my servitors to a planetary deity who said she'll preserve them.
In the East, there are no occult books or resources, but mystics only get their powers by deities who choose them. But in the West, whenever deities choose people, those people are misguided by ritualists who say, "that deity is an impostor. You didn't do the right rituals." Because ritualist orders mostly base their magic on a system of denial which states that
- all spirits are just mental archetypes which exist only in our minds
- humans created the gods, who only exist on our minds
- gods are not forces of nature that existed before humans
We gotta keep in mind that people like Moses, Jesus or Mohammed were not "occult practicioners" who did crazy rituals 24/7 before receiving magical powers. They were not "magicians" or "occult practicioners". They were chosen by their God. And they didn't use imaginations or grimoires that gave the wrong descriptions of spirit appearances. Spirits have always chosen humans. But in the East, these people keep up their relationship and grow powers like psychokinesis, purokinesis, and etc. And in the West, as soon as spirits chose you, ritualists will call you "Chaos Magicians " and "Schizophrenics" who "work with entities that are their own creations", which will severely reduce your powers, misguide you, and make you have real emotional problems due to the fact that you'll believe you're mentally ill.
Actually, I think it's a very bad modern misconception that the magicians choose deities. In the city in Bangladesh where my dad's ancestors are from, there are Muslim or Hindu mystics living close to every shrine or holy temple. And none of these people have gained their psychokinetic or other powers by doing rituals and other bogus stuff. They all claim that their spirit guides, spirit rulers, or deities chose them back when they were young and started giving them visions, dreams, and etc. My patron goddess also chose me back when I didn't practice the occult, because she was my master and relative in a past life too. At first, I thought she was some imaginary-pseudo-mommy. But then the sufis in that city made me realize that she was actually there and they could see her too.
I'm not making some kind of an anti-Western claim that states "Gods only chose Easterns while Westerns have to do rituals". But in the West or any other place where "magical orders" exist, these "experienced magical practicioners" view spirits as "mental-archetypes". But in the East, these spirits are viewed as "residents of other worlds". And in fact, I know 2 people who were born right here in North America that were chosen by deities that gave them visions, powers and dreams. But they were both told by ritualists that their deities were just imagination. And both of these people ended up calling themselves "Chaos Magicians " and "Schizophrenics" who "work with entities that are their own creations". What they did was, by disbelieving, they cut off an "astral piece" of their deities and made them their own familiars. The same thing happened to me after a ritualist person told me that my deities are just my imaginations and I'm mentally ill. And when I started believing him, I started having emotional problems because of thinking I was living in some kind of a schizoid delusion. And then I cut off astral pieces from my deities and turned them into servitors. But then again, thanks to an Eastern mystic who was also chosen by his deities, I reunited with and reinvoked all my gods and elementals and started reciving physical signs again. And I surrendered all my servitors to a planetary deity who said she'll preserve them.
In the East, there are no occult books or resources, but mystics only get their powers by deities who choose them. But in the West, whenever deities choose people, those people are misguided by ritualists who say, "that deity is an impostor. You didn't do the right rituals." Because ritualist orders mostly base their magic on a system of denial which states that
- all spirits are just mental archetypes which exist only in our minds
- humans created the gods, who only exist on our minds
- gods are not forces of nature that existed before humans
We gotta keep in mind that people like Moses, Jesus or Mohammed were not "occult practicioners" who did crazy rituals 24/7 before receiving magical powers. They were not "magicians" or "occult practicioners". They were chosen by their God. And they didn't use imaginations or grimoires that gave the wrong descriptions of spirit appearances. Spirits have always chosen humans. But in the East, these people keep up their relationship and grow powers like psychokinesis, purokinesis, and etc. And in the West, as soon as spirits chose you, ritualists will call you "Chaos Magicians " and "Schizophrenics" who "work with entities that are their own creations", which will severely reduce your powers, misguide you, and make you have real emotional problems due to the fact that you'll believe you're mentally ill.
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Deities - do you choose them, or do they choose you?
Original post: Raal
Basically the same as with incarnate entities (humans)- some contact me, or some I'll contact out of interest, some I understand better than others.
Basically the same as with incarnate entities (humans)- some contact me, or some I'll contact out of interest, some I understand better than others.
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Deities - do you choose them, or do they choose you?
Original post: sami999x
I know. Sometimes, the higher selves of even out non-occultist friends can contact us and guide us. And they act very different than the human selves.
I know. Sometimes, the higher selves of even out non-occultist friends can contact us and guide us. And they act very different than the human selves.
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Deities - do you choose them, or do they choose you?
Original post: sami999x
I was told by a very experienced occultist that the only way to contact deities is if they choose you. And other then that, what people do is "use their imagination to mutilate a piece from the deities and make them do their bidding". You can't meet the real gods unless they already planned for you to see them. You can't even travel to them on the astral unless they've already decided to meet you. So, while each person thinks that they travel to deities and choose the deities, it was deities who decided that we'll end up with them. I met my patron even before I knew any occult rituals.
I was once separated from my deities by a guy who used the collective conscious to create "personalized clone familiars" who looked like my deities. And it all happened because he was from a system of disbelief where deities are "mental archetypes" and I'm a "cloner". During those days, I felt like breathing without air. I lost all connection with the higher astral. And my deities couldn't affect physical objects anymore. My Goetic couldn't affect the girls at university anymore, my nymph couldn't create peace in my family, my sylphs couldn't increase my concentration during exams anymore, and etc. And in reality, I was stuck with weak familiars who couldn't affect physical objects. It was only thanks to 3 - 4 more experienced practicioners that I got back on track.
Knowledge of the alternate worlds are now hidden by magical groups. And when somebody finds out without joining these groups, they get misguided by others. And that's where the "mental archetypes" theory comes from. But that stuff atleast doesn't happen in the holy places in Eastern wildereness. Every mystic there was chosen by spirits. I even met some that are married to fire-elementals. AND THEY LIVE IN WILDERNESS IN THE MODERN DAY.
I was told by a very experienced occultist that the only way to contact deities is if they choose you. And other then that, what people do is "use their imagination to mutilate a piece from the deities and make them do their bidding". You can't meet the real gods unless they already planned for you to see them. You can't even travel to them on the astral unless they've already decided to meet you. So, while each person thinks that they travel to deities and choose the deities, it was deities who decided that we'll end up with them. I met my patron even before I knew any occult rituals.
I was once separated from my deities by a guy who used the collective conscious to create "personalized clone familiars" who looked like my deities. And it all happened because he was from a system of disbelief where deities are "mental archetypes" and I'm a "cloner". During those days, I felt like breathing without air. I lost all connection with the higher astral. And my deities couldn't affect physical objects anymore. My Goetic couldn't affect the girls at university anymore, my nymph couldn't create peace in my family, my sylphs couldn't increase my concentration during exams anymore, and etc. And in reality, I was stuck with weak familiars who couldn't affect physical objects. It was only thanks to 3 - 4 more experienced practicioners that I got back on track.
Knowledge of the alternate worlds are now hidden by magical groups. And when somebody finds out without joining these groups, they get misguided by others. And that's where the "mental archetypes" theory comes from. But that stuff atleast doesn't happen in the holy places in Eastern wildereness. Every mystic there was chosen by spirits. I even met some that are married to fire-elementals. AND THEY LIVE IN WILDERNESS IN THE MODERN DAY.
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Deities - do you choose them, or do they choose you?
Original post: Naomi Chan
In my opinion, you are not chosen, nor do you choose, you only become a more shining aspect of who you already are....
fractal worlds, spinning out....like galactic arms....
only a dance
In my opinion, you are not chosen, nor do you choose, you only become a more shining aspect of who you already are....
fractal worlds, spinning out....like galactic arms....
only a dance
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Deities - do you choose them, or do they choose you?
Original post: Anathema_Oracle
I'd say it depends on which pantheon or belief system you subscribe to.
In some mythologies, if not most pantheistic ones, the Gods have a tendency to interfere in the affairs of humans for both seemingly altruistic purposes, ie: giving writing, culture, protection and more selfish reasons: Zeus comes to mind when you think of all the raping and cruel challenges he set his bastard children and poor Greeks in general.
In Greek, Sumerian, Egyptian myths the Gods have distinctly human personalities, quite idiosyncratic and particular to the region. They'll kill, fight and generally quarrel endlessly with each other over Pride, power and some might say, followers.
It's no wonder some people start to speculate that these Gods are based on real historical figures or at least represent a society at the time, the Jade Emperor comes to mind with this idea and the convoluted celestial kingdom he rules.
Now to my point! All the above societies have basically abandoned these gods and the way of life they represented. For the prospective devotee I'd say it's a buyer's market when it comes to choosing a deity, nobody in Egypt really gives a damn about getting some prime real estate in the afterlife so these gods should be clamouring to offer you some servents and some nice fields for them to plow for you.
The rise of eclectic pick and choose paradigms might mean your personal pantheon could have gods who stake claim to the same occupations, which might be tricky when it comes time to call upon their services.
So do you choose them or they you? I'd say you choose them and they should be damned happy anyone remembers their name or backstory. Think of them like you would out of work actors, only really being of any use when being directed in your play about them. Deities Equity has ceased to function.
(Small nod to Small Gods by Terry Pratchett for these ideas)
I'd say it depends on which pantheon or belief system you subscribe to.
In some mythologies, if not most pantheistic ones, the Gods have a tendency to interfere in the affairs of humans for both seemingly altruistic purposes, ie: giving writing, culture, protection and more selfish reasons: Zeus comes to mind when you think of all the raping and cruel challenges he set his bastard children and poor Greeks in general.
In Greek, Sumerian, Egyptian myths the Gods have distinctly human personalities, quite idiosyncratic and particular to the region. They'll kill, fight and generally quarrel endlessly with each other over Pride, power and some might say, followers.
It's no wonder some people start to speculate that these Gods are based on real historical figures or at least represent a society at the time, the Jade Emperor comes to mind with this idea and the convoluted celestial kingdom he rules.
Now to my point! All the above societies have basically abandoned these gods and the way of life they represented. For the prospective devotee I'd say it's a buyer's market when it comes to choosing a deity, nobody in Egypt really gives a damn about getting some prime real estate in the afterlife so these gods should be clamouring to offer you some servents and some nice fields for them to plow for you.
The rise of eclectic pick and choose paradigms might mean your personal pantheon could have gods who stake claim to the same occupations, which might be tricky when it comes time to call upon their services.
So do you choose them or they you? I'd say you choose them and they should be damned happy anyone remembers their name or backstory. Think of them like you would out of work actors, only really being of any use when being directed in your play about them. Deities Equity has ceased to function.
(Small nod to Small Gods by Terry Pratchett for these ideas)
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Deities - do you choose them, or do they choose you?
Original post: Naomi Chan
[QUOTE=Necrosapien;247672]Ultimately we have the power of choice. The powers that be may present us with an opportunity but we can say whether or not we want anything to do with it/he/she/them.
I had a dream about Ra. He showed up, said, "I am Ra," and I shot at him with a .44 Magnum. *shrugs* I guess I didn't want anything to do with him. I don't think I've heard from him since.
At the same time I've tried to get the attention of YHVH and struggling to be recognized by him. I don't know if I'm getting anywhere and I feel quite alone at times. He's the only deity I have ever known or felt like I've been close to, (aside from the figure of Jesus...who I'm having issues taking a step in blind faith and will not do so unless he actually does something to make me believe he's anything more than a person deified...) yet I do not feel I have his approval.
So I don't know. Sometimes we choose them...sometimes they choose us...and sometimes things just fall into place.[/QUOTE]
Why the hell did you choose YHVH over Ra? :O
Switch advised....
[QUOTE=Necrosapien;247672]Ultimately we have the power of choice. The powers that be may present us with an opportunity but we can say whether or not we want anything to do with it/he/she/them.
I had a dream about Ra. He showed up, said, "I am Ra," and I shot at him with a .44 Magnum. *shrugs* I guess I didn't want anything to do with him. I don't think I've heard from him since.
At the same time I've tried to get the attention of YHVH and struggling to be recognized by him. I don't know if I'm getting anywhere and I feel quite alone at times. He's the only deity I have ever known or felt like I've been close to, (aside from the figure of Jesus...who I'm having issues taking a step in blind faith and will not do so unless he actually does something to make me believe he's anything more than a person deified...) yet I do not feel I have his approval.
So I don't know. Sometimes we choose them...sometimes they choose us...and sometimes things just fall into place.[/QUOTE]
Why the hell did you choose YHVH over Ra? :O
Switch advised....