Demonchild_Angel
07-07-2004, 02:24 AM
I was just wondering what peoples view are on Pagan Acceptance in the community
here is a story which happened to me a while ago
I read of the annual procession from the church in the town centre near where I live and So I thought it was about time the Pagans of old were also remembered. I went to the two main church's and asked if I could take part in a respectful way as the local co-ordinator and leader of the local Pagans in my community. I am glad to say I was taken seriously and given permission to take part dressed in my robes. Anyway later that evening I arrived at the main church in town centre and everyone was very nice and wanted to know more about Paganism. There was a Lady vicar from the U.S.A. who was amazed but pleased to see a Pagan leader taking part. She told me some of her friends were Pagans and times are now changing for the better. I was even asked to join in the photo taking. Some of the older people who came along must have been a bit confused but I did not get any bad feedback at all. It felt right taking part in a all faith open event to remember the founders of our town even if they were R.C. monks from France. Not being on the outside of events and hiding away, but dressing in as fine a robe as any other faiths and being proud of it marching through or streets. I did not ask anyone else to join me, as still most of us Pagans feel they have to protect themselves in some way, I think that only prolongs the problems of the past. I have nothing to hide and feel in my position (nothing to loose) I can push Paganism to be equal to any other religion in our town and area, (which it is anyway, if not better). Once we got to the site we had a typical short Christian service, not something I like but I slip in things like Goddess bless not Amen, and cannot say certain things. After that it was just tea and chat before going home. But I did ask the
chairman of our ecumenical group in the town if I could take part in some of the multi faith events to represent Pagans, he agreed to keep me informed. I hope by showing we are likeable people who are educated and respectful with an eye on the future, that Pagans are around and are here to stay. I wonder what would happen if efforts like this were made everywhere. Could we all practice our religion without fear like I do. Why not?
Asimis
07-07-2004, 07:53 AM
Yes..all people should start showing more about their religion, be it in art, music, and all other mediums. This is something we need if we are to keep our freedom.
I believe that all religions are a representation of the whole, there is not one religion that has the whole truth so it is necessary that there is diversity on religions. For example, to me Gnostic Christianity is the representation of the whole that satisfies me, to others it is Hinduism, to others Buddhism, etc.
I don't think God belongs to a single religion but to all and since we are all different and have different needs we should all be allowed to practice our religion freely and we must also learn to respect the right of other people who choose a different path to God.
But this of course is not in the plan of those in power. They know what we can become and how far we can go so as a result they enforce conflict between us and promote hatred and intolerance.
I am glad to hear of your efforts Demonchild Angel, it is things like this that are necessary to counter act the current shape of things.
The Rose
07-08-2004, 12:28 AM
I been in lots of religious tolerents and freedom of religion events. In Tx. to make a long story short christains don't accept us, but almost every pagan groups gets along with every other one. We stick together. When I was in Phoenix Az. The chirstains did accept us for the most part, but all the pagan groups fought among each other. ::shrugs::
Have you ever heard of the I Am Pagan campain? It's been going on for the last 4 years. There is a web site but I forgot it. Basicly every year pagans send postcards to the president, governers, and other people like that. On it you put I am a pagan......... You finish it with whatever you want. Like I am a pagan voter, sister, brother, mother, etc. I've done it twice. You are suppose to at least put your zip code on it. The first year I put my full name and address. I'm not scared, so if there is a goverment list of known pagans then I'm on it. lol
water
07-08-2004, 12:35 AM
I am curious, and I realize sometimes I come off wrong, but...
why do you feel a need to be accepted for your personal beliefs towards religion? It's a question that has always stumped me... why aren't we enough for us? Why do other people have to validate us? In the end - at the moment we leave this life we are alone.... no-one is there to validate us, so why do it throughout our lives?
The Rose
07-08-2004, 12:45 AM
I am curious, and I realize sometimes I come off wrong, but...
why do you feel a need to be accepted for your personal beliefs towards religion? It's a question that has always stumped me... why aren't we enough for us? Why do other people have to validate us? In the end - at the moment we leave this life we are alone.... no-one is there to validate us, so why do it throughout our lives?
I don't think it's so much as wanting someone to validate us as it is wanting equal treatment. Women and blacks have all fought for it. We just want to get the same rights and treatment as anyone else.
frater luciferi
07-08-2004, 03:24 AM
There is a certain prejudice that still comes from fundamentalists. I have heard statistically since a good 50% of the population or more believes in god in some form or another, the majority being x-tian. These statistics show that there is still a lot of ignorance in relation to paganism and there is often quite the slight upon those whom take the pagan path. The same goes for the gay community in the states, they had made a good fight to increase their hold in american culture and help to dispel the bias that they had to deal with. The same with women, people of color, and so forth - it is a necessary progression for society to move on.
Needless to say its pretty sad that the pagan community needs to become more vocal, perhaps someday we will have a greater hold upon america. I fear the legacy of fundamentalism is going to damn us all soon enough.
heylel shalem halal!
water
07-08-2004, 11:05 AM
But what about all the pagan's that discriminate against Christians? They aren't always the most open minded of people either.
Demonchild_Angel
07-08-2004, 01:40 PM
Since I posted the original post, a new family has moved into the house that has been empty right next door to me. This house backs right up against mine, so they can hear pritty much everthing I am saying, and me them.
Last night, I was performing a ritual in order to go into a dreaming (a state of altered mind that lets me enhance visions or preminitions, so that I can see details like places and people)
This morning there daughter who is around 16 came round on her way to school, said she heard me and asked if I was a witch - I make no secret about it so i said yes. She then said she thought it was cool and asked me if I would teach her some stuff. So I told her if her parents agreed I would teach her.
This sounds good so far - a young person interested in Paganisim right (wrong)
She came round again on her way back from school said her parents had agreed and would I teach her, so I gave her a book to read and said if she was still interested after she had read it then I would.
Well aparently her parents had not agreed, and they have just left my house now, after yelling at me about corrupting their children with satanic books, called me a TRUE DEVIL LAYING IN WAIT FOR THE INOCENT. Told me I was going to hell and it was a waste of time to repent as even god could not save me.
They scared my little girl who is only 3 half to death. The wife picked her up and said she was going to take her some place where she was safe and was on her way out the door with her. She only put her down beacuse her husband insisted that she did.
I have lived in the same community all my life, every body knows that I am a witch and nobody has ever said anything, but in the few days that it took this family to move in, that has compleately changed and so has my view on christianity. I thought this kind of barbarisim was left in the middle ages, but aparantly not.
Asimis
07-08-2004, 05:49 PM
While I agree that they overreacted and took the issue like a pair of neanderthals..I have to say that you should have been more careful about letting a book to a 16 year old about paganism without knowing her parents or without being sure that the parents said it was ok.
As much as you call the Christians handling you a brochure with some verses or them visiting your house to tell you about Jesus and you call that brainwashing. The fundamentalist will see you handling her a book of paganism as brainwashing too.
It is unfortunate since that what just happened hinders your attemps at promoting tolerance towards paganism..I think if possible, you could try and apologize to them for the misunderstanding.
Demonchild_Angel
07-08-2004, 07:40 PM
all I did was give her a book, it was not even anything really religious. It simply explained about nature and how she was part of everyone of us told some stories about sea creatures (mermaids and the like), had a few very very, basic spells (stuff like welcoming the element of water around your body as you get in the shower, and saying goodbye to the earth as you wash it off) it explained how we should respect the earth and take care of her, and then at the end it had a simplified verson of the wiccan reede. The book i gave her was desinged for children, it is the kind of stuff that i do with my daughter and she is only 3.
If I had of given it to any of my friends they would have had fun, making the recipies and reading the stories to their kids
I dont see what I did wrong, its not like i was trying to initiate her into a cult or anything. and even if her parents did not like the book i gave her, there was no need to fly of the handle, and come round my house threatining to take my daughter away and scaring her half to death (I have NEVER hear her cry like that) she cried for nearly three hours and would not even go to bed, and when i did finally get her to lay down, she held onto my hand so tight she was hurting me.
I hate them for they did, and I dont think i could ever face them with out wanting rip out their hearts and grind their bones to dust. They are the only people in my whole life who has ever made me ashamed of what i am and it takes everything ive got not to give them what they deserve
Asimis
07-08-2004, 07:59 PM
Sorry to hear that Demonchild_Angel, like I said..they acted like Neanderthals..it is people..they just suck.
It is a shame now since they will have eyes over you since now they think you are satanic and must be "dealt with"..
Why can't this people just evolve? :evil:
skye
07-09-2004, 06:42 AM
Demonchild_Angel, I guess her parents were just worried. If they don't know much about it, then they're more inclined to be scared and react badly. Whilst I don't particularly condone that kind of response, I can see where they are coming from. With all of the frightful propoganda out there against "goths", "punks", "heavy metal", "satanism", it's easy to see why they would be worried and overreact.
I guess you just have to be nice and polite and prove to them that you are better than that.
As for your original post, I more or less agree with Water's views on the whole issue. I agree with fighting for equality and acceptance, but I don't know ...
The thing is, we (the pagan community) always seem to harp on about equality of religion, that we're discriminated against, but the better part of the community does the exact same thing back to other religions.
I'm all for religious tolerance and equality but we have a long way to go in our own community first. We do have the right to be free of fear when it comes to practicing our beliefs publicly, but discrimination and hateful actions are going to be there no matter what religion or faith you are.
psicosm
07-09-2004, 12:18 PM
I hate them for they did, and I dont think i could ever face them with out wanting rip out their hearts and grind their bones to dust.
I think you've shown a remarkable amount of restraint and inner peace for only thinking that. If someone touched my kid, all bets are off. I would've friggin' exploded on them.
Eden
07-09-2004, 12:34 PM
I agree, they had abosoloutely no right to lay a hand on your child, or to frighten her in any way (threatning to take a child that young away from it's parents is beyond cruel). Also, if your daughter is being raised a pagan, these people have just rubbished everything she's been taught. I'm not surprised she was upset.
water
07-09-2004, 02:00 PM
Please, please, please, don't take what I say as criticizing of you in any way. But I will speak from both sides of my mouth here...
all I did was give her a book, it was not even anything really religious. It simply explained about nature and how she was part of everyone of us told some stories about sea creatures (mermaids and the like), had a few very very, basic spells (stuff like welcoming the element of water around your body as you get in the shower, and saying goodbye to the earth as you wash it off) it explained how we should respect the earth and take care of her, and then at the end it had a simplified verson of the wiccan reede. The book i gave her was desinged for children, it is the kind of stuff that i do with my daughter and she is only 3. But the girl wasn't your daughter, those people felt threatened that you were going to teach her things that frightened them, and that they didn't want her to have any dealings with at this point in her life. It is their right to restrict her access to things they feel are wrong as her parents. Perhaps if you had approached them instead of her after her questions to you, things might have gone smoother. However, they did have a right to confront you for giving their minor daughter a gift of which they had no knowledge and did not agree with, whether you thought they did or not. You may want to make amends and try to talk to them if you are going to be neighbors, they haven't known for your whole life that you are a pagan, and they are new in town. It's somewhat understandable that they would get very angry about a neighbor showing their minor a book about the occult.
If I had of given it to any of my friends they would have had fun, making the recipies and reading the stories to their kidsThese people aren't your friends, you haven't even met them, and you gave this book to their child. They didn't approve or like it, and they told you so after the fact.
I dont see what I did wrong, its not like i was trying to initiate her into a cult or anything. and even if her parents did not like the book i gave her, there was no need to fly of the handle, and come round my house threatining to take my daughter away and scaring her half to death (I have NEVER hear her cry like that) she cried for nearly three hours and would not even go to bed, and when i did finally get her to lay down, she held onto my hand so tight she was hurting me.There was a need for them to tell you that they felt your behavior was inappropriate. Parents are naturally frightened of the unknown when it involves their children, and rightfully so.
All that being said, they had absolutely no right whatsoever to touch or frighten your child. If I were you I would attempt to 1. Work it out with them and make amends. or 2. Go to the police and press charges for what they did to your daughter. Those are your rights, and your choices.
Your job now is to comfort your child, no matter how angry you are and try to get her to understand that people are different in many ways that you can and cannot see. She will need to learn this early if you are teaching her to be a pagan.
I hate them for they did, and I dont think i could ever face them with out wanting rip out their hearts and grind their bones to dust. They are the only people in my whole life who has ever made me ashamed of what i am and it takes everything ive got not to give them what they deserveThey deserve what? Repercussion for frightening your daughter? Yes, that's what the police are for. Harrassment is not taken lightly. They deserve your anger? Yes, for the same reason, but understand that the first play here came from you. You attacked what they believed and don't believe in (albeit unknowingly and unwittingly) and their anger at you is as justified as your anger at them.
Being a pagan holds tremendous responsibility when dealing with any children. I would caution you to use a bit more care in what you do and don't say.
Would I have gotten ofended? I don't know. Perhaps I would have if I didn't think you had good intentions, however, it is my right to help my child choose, and not yours. It is however your right to protect your child by any and all legal means neccessary and appropriate.
My best wished to you in the future with these people, I have a strong feeling it isn't going to be easy unless you first swallow your pride, and go to them to make amends.
Demonchild_Angel
07-09-2004, 02:04 PM
Kiki (my daughter) means more to me then my whole life, she is the reason I am so intent on making the future a better place, and if I cant have her, then I dont want this cruel world either!!!
Demonchild_Angel
07-12-2004, 01:44 PM
This is kind of related to this because it is to do with those, horrid people who have moved next door to me
I try very hard to ignor the things they say, but I am finding it difficult. Normally this would not be a problem as my shield would protect me from any negitive energy that is coming from them. However, my urge to tare them apart, is making it harder for me to maintain any form of psychic shield.
I want to destroy them, to hurt them like they hurt my child, and the more I resist doing something that I know I will regret, the more the feeling of resentment grows stronger.
I have tried everything that I know of, short of reporting them for harasment, but I only want to do this as a last resort. Does anyone know of anything I could try that might work, has anyone been in a similar situation, and who might be able to suggest something.
Please, help, I am not spell begging I just want help, advice, as this is starting to take over my life.
Eden
07-12-2004, 01:58 PM
It depends what you want to do about it... If you simply wish for the anger and resentment to leave you, an anger release spell is your answer. On the other hand, if you believe that you and your daughter have been wronged, perhaps a justice spell is more in the line. But please, please be sure that your hands are totally clean if you're going to use a justice spell, if you call on the deities to deal out punishments to those who deserve, you must make sure that you are not deserving of their judgement too!
Demonchild_Angel
07-12-2004, 05:15 PM
Thanxs for that Eden, I have already tried the anger realease spell that i had in my BOS, but it did not work. I will try again, and rewrite it to be more specific to the situation
Thanx again,
Love and Blessings
Demonchild
Eden
07-12-2004, 05:53 PM
Go for it... remember... "To live well is the best revenge,"
(and 'cold revenge reeks havoc upon the digestive system!" is another favourite...)