Asmoday, Dantalion, Belial and other Goetics...

[Arckangel]

Have any of you ever worked with Goetics such as Asmoday, Dantalion and Belial? Any result? How did you proceed? Did you use methods from grimoires or did you just call on them and prayed to them?

[Kath]

I always work freestyle with summoning myself.

Personally, I don't find goetia to be that historically sound. its a very jewish view of things... where pretty much every god from a neighboring culture is depicted as a general in hell, etc. Take Baal/Bael for example, he's a fertility god of the caananites.

Now, moses and the other hebrews making their exodus from egypt come to the 'promised land'... but there's a hitch, people are already living there. So god tells them to kill all the caananites, men women children animals, etc. and burn everything completely to erase them from the earth (because they're evil, of course, and coincidentally in the way too). So you know, the hebrews did all that, and purified the earth from the evil caananite taint, and then took the land for their own, because god gave it to them. (i hope the sarcasm isn't getting lost here )

anyway... so if you contact Bael, summon him to a triangle bound by YHVH, and call him a lord in hell... I mean how would you feel if you were Baal? first they're mispronouncing your name, then they're 'binding' you with the name of the god of those genocidal hebrews? and all your peeps have been murdered, even the friggin animals, and they're saying YOU'RE from hell... so i mean, if i were baal, i'd just f'n cap anybody who came to me with this sort of stuff, ya know? I guess Baal is a bit more patient than me, cuz you don't hear about many people getting capped by baal.

but eh, I'm probably a minority view on this, here in the ceremonial magick board.

[Asterion]

hey kath. i must say i love your posts, and this goetian spirits / old gods is an old thing magicians have spoken of since times immemorial (or since the OF got up). Now, have you summoned Baal and asked him about the true nature of the relationship between him and the ol YHWH? It s one thing to theorise, and one to have it straight from the horses mouth. Just as an example, i was reading the other day ImperialArts ' journal, an entry where he goes a few steps into prezenting all the reasons why Jesus of Nazareth was not real historically, and the guy had a major surprise when one of the Goetia spirits , when asked about the matter, responded that the guy and his miracles were indeed real. I often like to theorise, sure, it s a bucket of fun, but asking the spirits themselves is quite the correct way of going about.

Plus there are missconceptions and missleads, The name BaEl simply means In God. There is also an angel in the merkava literature called Boel or Bohel, and one called Beal, and those are not demons or any other sort of so called malevolent beings.

There is a historical point of this process and a possible magical point.

Hystorically, yes, Baal seems a canaanite deity that was demonified by the judaic monotheistic belief.
Magically, the fallen angels did take advantage of the ignorance of the people and showed themselves as gods.

I have no answer to why would a god be conjured up and constrained by the name of another god, if that speciffic god was smaller in a divine hierarchy. Plus, Bael has a chief Emperor, doesn t he?

i d like to see more replies from you, i ve actually missed u, hehe

[Asterion]

ps: I know Baal means Lord. It is my intimate belief that he is part of the Triad Lucifer, Astaroth Belzebuth in the old grimoires, it seems very logical. Belzebul manes nothing more than The Master Prince, or Prince Baal, if you wish, and he certainly fitts the description as one of the most powerful kings amongst the nasties. That Lord of the Flyes thing is really a bag of..., its just a linguistic bad joke.

[TheStudy]

I believe you are reffering to the Liber Juratus where he appears as Bohel.-(mid thirteenth century) I do not summon from the Goetics but those that I have summoned using the Key of Solomon were counted as Demons according to the Liber Juratus and the Heptameron. Given their responses, I can't imagine that the jews had it wrong.

[Asterion]

no. There is a great confusion between Baal-Bael, the entity in the Goetia, which is demonic, and the angel Ba'el or Bahel, also called Bahel in Liber Juratus, or Boel, which in many works, includin liber Juratus, but also in earier jewish sources, appers as the ruling angel of Saturn. (see athanasius Kircher, Liber Razielis, Heptameron, etc also)

[Arckangel]

[img width=100px height=100px]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v606/ ... _17009.gif[/img]

That's Asmoday. While meditating upon him I tell myself I am Asmoday, he's within me, as to forget my own thoughts ans hear his voice. I'll tell you about my progress.

[Venefica]

I have read a bit about Goetica, but have not really gotten into the system. I have been more interested in Dr Dee's Enochian system. However if I was going to summon the Entities the original paster mentions I would probably start with leaving a sacrifice to the Entity according to correspondences over what a specific Entity would like, and then do simple prayers and see if that would work, and then hit the books and try something more advanced later if I did not get any results.