gambling

magus33 · Post by **magus33** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:39 pm

just wondering if anyone has tried gambling as a form of magical practice and whether youve had results ?

i have, and it has put some pounds in my pocket....that i really needed

i havent won the lottery yet...lol.....but im moving on up...

Post by **Madavascus** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:42 pm

Dear magus33,

I've never tried using magic in gambling or in the lottery, because I fear the disappointment incurred by a possible lack of results (the odds of winning the lottery are rather astronomic) could damage my belief in the potency of my art.

I suspect that more than one magician has attempted to win the lottery in the past, and failed. However, one occultist, a Wiccan by the name of Elwood "Bunky" Bartlett once won the lottery using magic. He says he vowed to the Powers that be that if he were to win, he would open a school of witchcraft and teach full-time. http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Wiccan_lo ... _1030.html

This was back in 2007. I wonder where he's at in his project today, and if he has respected his vow...

reptilian · Post by **reptilian** » Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:42 pm

There are a lot of hoodoo spells dedicated to making a quick buck. Fast Luck Powder and other charms are generally used for gambling, and I read some accounts in this topic http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... 15&t=24422 of people using it with some success with scratchers (that's a kind of lottery ticket, right?).

I'm working on designing a spell that will help me get promotions/raises, but I don't have the money to risk using it for gambling right now.

magus33 · Post by **magus33** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:34 am

yeah...got burned ...badly... huge debts and all [sadface]

i reckon i didnt apply myself enough, plus my "workings" are rather hectic and unorganized...

ill try to control and augment myself and my rituals....but i wont quit cause that will mean that i am just another believer like billions on this planet, part of the idiotic flocks.

i allways thought that i am a practitioner, closer to a scientist.

hyperRitual · Post by **hyperRitual** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 4:58 pm

SSormany wrote:I've never tried using magic in gambling or in the lottery, because I fear the disappointment incurred by a possible lack of results (the odds of winning the lottery are rather astronomic) could damage my belief in the potency of my art.

Really good point. My first ever "official" magic work was intended to win a poker tournament, which I did not. Fortunately, that did not turn me off of magic. Now, I prefer to do magic for those things I really want that I would spend money on, rather than for money itself, but I do maintain a fantasy of moving to Las Vegas and committing a year or so of my life to experimenting with magic and gambling. I suspect it has much potential for fun and fortune, but that I should be entirely immersed in it for a while.

akimbomoss · Post by **akimbomoss** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:05 pm

hyperRitual wrote:moving to Las Vegas

Just stay away from the adrenochrome or else you'll end up like me http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... =2&t=32485.

hyperRitual · Post by **hyperRitual** » Sat Oct 22, 2011 7:44 pm

akimbomoss wrote:Just stay away from the adrenochrome or else you'll end up like me http://www.occultforum.org/forum/viewto ... =2&t=32485.

Thanks for the tip. There are surely some connections (at least for me) between adrenal hyperactivity, gambling, and Mercurial magic. I have experienced several adrenaline-related and nervous conditions including RLS. My magical and alchemical work has helped greatly to temper most such conditions.

Cleft · Post by **Cleft** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:00 am

SSormany wrote:Dear magus33,

I've never tried using magic in gambling or in the lottery, because I fear the disappointment incurred by a possible lack of results (the odds of winning the lottery are rather astronomic) could damage my belief in the potency of my art.

I suspect that more than one magician has attempted to win the lottery in the past, and failed. However, one occultist, a Wiccan by the name of Elwood "Bunky" Bartlett once won the lottery using magic. He says he vowed to the Powers that be that if he were to win, he would open a school of witchcraft and teach full-time. http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Wiccan_lo ... _1030.html

This was back in 2007. I wonder where he's at in his project today, and if he has respected his vow...

How much of 'luck' is 'magic' anyway. I for one don't understand the nature of 'luck' so how can I hope to influence it? What we generaly term as probability is just convenient and used to simplify complex but entirely mechanical causal chains. Flipping a coin for example, we generaly think of the outcome as being dictated by luck however in reality the coin falls according to many minuscule factors which are normally too much of a bother to mention.

Luck as a characteristic is even more immpossible to understand. If I am mistaken in my sceptisism then please correct me, to be honest I'd be greatly pleased if someone was able to do so.

hyperRitual · Post by **hyperRitual** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 12:43 am

Cleft wrote:How much of 'luck' is 'magic' anyway. I for one don't understand the nature of 'luck' so how can I hope to influence it? What we generaly term as probability is just convenient and used to simplify complex but entirely mechanical causal chains. Flipping a coin for example, we generaly think of the outcome as being dictated by luck however in reality the coin falls according to many minuscule factors which are normally too much of a bother to mention.

Probability is a mathematical measure of uncertainty. When I flip a coin, I am uncertain whether it will land heads or tails up. Statistically, it has a 0.5 chance of landing heads. This does not oppose the fact that every flip of a coin is a complex physical process; it just says something about what state that process is likely to terminate in (or more correctly, what we can know about that state). Ditto for a die roll; at each moment the die's state in relation to the state of its environment determines its next state; still, it is effectively a stochastic process as we cannot predict with certainty which state the die will come to rest in.

Luck is biased probability. In the case of a coin toss, I am only lucky if my probability is better than 0.5 (or unlucky if it is worse).

Data from experiments such as those of Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research using random event generators, suggest that we can in fact intentionally influence the probability of a random event. Of course, we do things all the time to "improve our chances" that this or that will go as we wish it to. Magic can be modeled as a means of doing the same but WRT to extraordinary knowledge or circumstances.

Cleft · Post by **Cleft** » Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:01 pm

hyperRitual wrote:
Cleft wrote:How much of 'luck' is 'magic' anyway. I for one don't understand the nature of 'luck' so how can I hope to influence it? What we generaly term as probability is just convenient and used to simplify complex but entirely mechanical causal chains. Flipping a coin for example, we generaly think of the outcome as being dictated by luck however in reality the coin falls according to many minuscule factors which are normally too much of a bother to mention.
Probability is a mathematical measure of uncertainty. When I flip a coin, I am uncertain whether it will land heads or tails up. Statistically, it has a 0.5 chance of landing heads. This does not oppose the fact that every flip of a coin is a complex physical process; it just says something about what state that process is likely to terminate in (or more correctly, what we can know about that state). Ditto for a die roll; at each moment the die's state in relation to the state of its environment determines its next state; still, it is effectively a stochastic process as we cannot predict with certainty which state the die will come to rest in.

Luck is biased probability. In the case of a coin toss, I am only lucky if my probability is better than 0.5 (or unlucky if it is worse).

Data from experiments such as those of Princeton Engineering Anomalies Research using random event generators, suggest that we can in fact intentionally influence the probability of a random event. Of course, we do things all the time to "improve our chances" that this or that will go as we wish it to. Magic can be modeled as a means of doing the same but WRT to extraordinary knowledge or circumstances.

So your 'luck' would be an attribute which every person possesses which can be either positive or negative. Positive 'luck' would influence, through synchronicity, the causal events necessary to achieve a positive result which included factors which the individual could not influence directly.

So rather than influencing the causal events involved in acts of apparent probability, if using magic and according to your methods, you would seek to modify your own 'luck' which in turn would influence acts of apparent probability.

Of course if the above logic is correct then it seems that 'luck' can be infulenced by magic. Though I am a little conflicted, I concede that the above is sound. Now that a target for the magic has been discorvered it would appear that magical methods could be used to modify the 'luck' attribute.

Quite interesting.

hyperRitual · Post by **hyperRitual** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:39 am

Cleft wrote:So your 'luck' would be an attribute which every person possesses which can be either positive or negative. Positive 'luck' would influence, through synchronicity, the causal events necessary to achieve a positive result which included factors which the individual could not influence directly.

So rather than influencing the causal events involved in acts of apparent probability, if using magic and according to your methods, you would seek to modify your own 'luck' which in turn would influence acts of apparent probability.

Of course if the above logic is correct then it seems that 'luck' can be infulenced by magic. Though I am a little conflicted, I concede that the above is sound. Now that a target for the magic has been discorvered it would appear that magical methods could be used to modify the 'luck' attribute.

Quite interesting.

Possibly you could use magic to amplify your luck, but my point was really that the use of magic to modify probability is luck, in a sense. It is making luck. Luck is mundanely "good fortune which occurs beyond one's control, without regard to one's will, intention, or desired result" (Wikipedia). But a magician extends her control beyond ordinary means, such that her intention manifests in ways that are causally opaque (at least to ordinary observation) and so appear "lucky" (to those who know no better), and also she attracts fortuitous events that she did not intend per se -- most magicians I know frequently experience synchronicity.

Luck can happen "by chance"; it does all the time; it is possible to turn up heads at a coin toss 20 times in a series, although the probability of doing so is quite low (0.520).

beero · Post by **beero** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:33 pm

A few months ago I created a servitor to bring me scratchcard winnings. I didn't accurately record the winnings compared to how much I spent on tickets but I'm convinced I beat the odds by some margin. in fact, this was one of my more successful attempts at an act of magick. I think I won back the cost of the scratchcard on the majority of times I used this, and won £5-£20 a couple times.
I created the servitor with a time limit so don't use anymore, but this is something I would like to try something similar again in the future.

Cleft · Post by **Cleft** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:09 pm

hyperRitual wrote:
Cleft wrote:So your 'luck' would be an attribute which every person possesses which can be either positive or negative. Positive 'luck' would influence, through synchronicity, the causal events necessary to achieve a positive result which included factors which the individual could not influence directly.

So rather than influencing the causal events involved in acts of apparent probability, if using magic and according to your methods, you would seek to modify your own 'luck' which in turn would influence acts of apparent probability.

Of course if the above logic is correct then it seems that 'luck' can be infulenced by magic. Though I am a little conflicted, I concede that the above is sound. Now that a target for the magic has been discorvered it would appear that magical methods could be used to modify the 'luck' attribute.

Quite interesting.
Possibly you could use magic to amplify your luck, but my point was really that the use of magic to modify probability is luck, in a sense. It is making luck. Luck is mundanely "good fortune which occurs beyond one's control, without regard to one's will, intention, or desired result" (Wikipedia). But a magician extends her control beyond ordinary means, such that her intention manifests in ways that are causally opaque (at least to ordinary observation) and so appear "lucky" (to those who know no better), and also she attracts fortuitous events that she did not intend per se -- most magicians I know frequently experience synchronicity.

Luck can happen "by chance"; it does all the time; it is possible to turn up heads at a coin toss 20 times in a series, although the probability of doing so is quite low (0.520).

Ughh... My earlier point was that 'probability' is purely theoretical, as such influencing it directly would be futile as you are addressing a variable that does not exist. Feel free to contradict me but please don't enter into a circular argument. Sorry if I'm getting curt, it is possible that I am misunderstanding something after all...

hyperRitual · Post by **hyperRitual** » Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:01 pm

Cleft wrote:Ughh... My earlier point was that 'probability' is purely theoretical, as such influencing it directly would be futile as you are addressing a variable that does not exist. Feel free to contradict me but please don't enter into a circular argument. Sorry if I'm getting curt, it is possible that I am misunderstanding something after all...

Firstly, none of my arguments have been circular, so I am uncertain why that is a concern.

Secondly, I am not sure why you think that probability is "purely theoretical." As I explained in my first reply to you, it is a measure of uncertainty. If you really do not believe in the reality of probability or stochastic processes, then I am not sure where you stand WRT to many of the discoveries in physics of the last century, to say nothing of information theory, which I suspect is more relevant to magic than physics.

Thirdly, if luck is biased probability (which is a point I made that you did not refute, although the point was not made as accurately or elegantly as it could have been), but probability is not real and cannot be influenced by magic, then I do not follow your previous reasoning about influencing luck via magic. Clearly, I am misunderstanding something.

Fourthly, let me admit for the sake of argument that I cannot magically influence the probability of a coin toss, but I can magically influence the toss of the coin such that I can cause it to consistently come up heads more often than half of the count of tosses. How is that different from magically improving the probability of the coin toss? Saying otherwise seems like saying I can cause my arm to grow longer but not increase its length.

Respectfully,
Joshua

Cleft · Post by **Cleft** » Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:15 am

hyperRitual wrote: Firstly, none of my arguments have been circular, so I am uncertain why that is a concern.

Secondly, I am not sure why you think that probability is "purely theoretical." As I explained in my first reply to you, it is a measure of uncertainty. If you really do not believe in the reality of probability or stochastic processes, then I am not sure where you stand WRT to many of the discoveries in physics of the last century, to say nothing of information theory, which I suspect is more relevant to magic than physics.

Thirdly, if luck is biased probability (which is a point I made that you did not refute, although the point was not made as accurately or elegantly as it could have been), but probability is not real and cannot be influenced by magic, then I do not follow your previous reasoning about influencing luck via magic. Clearly, I am misunderstanding something.

Fourthly, let me admit for the sake of argument that I cannot magically influence the probability of a coin toss, but I can magically influence the toss of the coin such that I can cause it to consistently come up heads more often than half of the count of tosses. How is that different from magically improving the probability of the coin toss? Saying otherwise seems like saying I can cause my arm to grow longer but not increase its length.

Respectfully,
Joshua

Woops, first one is because I thought you were disregarding my argument on the grounds that as your argument was correct my argument was necessarily wrong.

Second one is perhaps a little due to my own personal views. I think that a lot of physics is rubbish. Sciences are of some practical use but in the end they are built on axioms and theories of convienience. Imagining that things can happen purely as a result of 'probability' seems to me quite similar to an excuse regarding our failure to understand how at times things can happen in seemingly the precise same circumstances and achieve different results. It is my belief that in these circumstances there are differences, but at a level so difficult to distinguish that we are unable to see them.

Your term 'biased probability' is nonsensical. It is just a combination of two words which by definition mean contradictory things. You are using it as a compromise between certainty and uncertainty, allowing any result to be taken as the right one. The meaning of this term is entirely subjective. As for my previous argument I merely acknowledged how some people appear to do better than others in terms of 'luck' and considered if perhaps a hidden attribute exists within a person which influences acts of apparent probability. If this was the case then I wondered if this factor would be the one to influence rather than the act of apparent probability itself, as according to my logic that seems illogical. Our mutual lack of understanding is rooted in a concept that was muddled from the start. I hope that after identifying the roots of our conundrum we can come to an agreement.

As for you fourth point it is true that the result is the same but we use different methods in order to reach that result. If you re-read what I posted earlier after looking at my grossly simplified version above you wil see where we differ.

This is beginning to feel like mental acrobatics... We should be carefull not to fall over each other.

DrMummy · Post by **DrMummy** » Fri Oct 28, 2011 10:59 pm

If you know you're going to win, how could you possibly be gambling?

magus33 · Post by **magus33** » Mon Oct 31, 2011 12:22 pm

exactly, drmummy... to the point.
will keep you informed. result wise.

magus33 · Post by **magus33** » Sat Dec 10, 2011 10:55 am

im so happy to say that i have finally managed to pay off all my debts...
[happyface] [happyface] [happyface] [happyface] [happyface] [happyface] [happyface]

how did i did it ? through ~"""gambling""", ofcourse ...thought a lot about how to do it , especially about what dr mummy said ...thai it is not gambling ...if you KNOW you are going to win...

did a lot of cleansing rituals, divination (my fav method is listening for random words on the street ... dont know how its called , romans used it ...) ...meditation, chaos magic , ritual und ceremonial magic...

Iit was all very tough job... and i pulled it off in the nick of time ...1 DAY before i HAD to pay my debt...lol unfreakingbelievable ...i still dont believe it

now i did not win the lotery or something ... i won just exact the amount i wished for ...

come to think about it ... why on earth did i not wish for a lager amount

you know that i wont stop...but its tough, takes a lot of energy and dedication...drained me totally...i feel exhausted.
all the best for everybody (everybody that is a good person that is)... and happy festive season people [happyface]

magus33 · Post by **magus33** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:45 am

update.

well, since i managed that incredible feat (paying off my debts) i kinda laxed, i mean the rituals and all the magic stuff.

but i did not stop this crazy gambling. this obviously resulted in an endless cycle of misery and stress.

fact is i believe there is something definitely wrong with my brain... money related ... i do not manage to hold on to money, i gamble them instantly, as if i want to lose , as if i want to feel horrible and depressed afterwards...

the second i have money in my pocket i kinda zone out and phase out any other thoughts other than gambling. i do not think of nothing else, no divination, no rituals, no bills, nor to save money for food or rent ...nothing

afterwards i kinda wake up, and ...what have i done , and i swear to myself that i wont do it again, never. and i am certain that i will stop, i am certain of it, no more
next paycheck i do it again
nope, i just gamble as if i want to lose , and i manage to chose worst value games ...as i f i want to lose the money

i managed not to make any more debts, i mean i owe small amounts that i can cover easily with my next weekly paycheck.

but if i wont stop itll get worst again.

if anybody has any thoughts or advices that might help me i am open to any suggestion.

magus33 · Post by **magus33** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:42 pm

left out something that may be crucial to the investigation.

ever since i started the magic practice, i have been doing mostly "bad" things. i mean like curses, hexes, spells.

i have had incredible results... like sending ppl to prison, making ppl have accidents, even killed my uncle (no, not that sort of uncle...lol, just a stupid idiot that promised to help me financially and didn't.. went to his house one day, (only been there like twice in 30 years...), and did a nice cursing ritual on him, with help from some american friend ... next day i got a call he was dead.)
imagine that.
i still do curse ppl and "work" against many, basically because they are not nice ppl , and cause i like it, and because it is easy to do it.

but can't help to wonder if thats what makes my life not so pleasant...to say so.

anyway, the gambling

akimbomoss · Post by **akimbomoss** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:36 pm

Tell you what? Curse me and see what happens. I guarentee good results

IGUANA

Nahemah · Post by **Nahemah** » Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:06 pm

I might just be an over cautious old lady,so bear that in mind,but I rarely offer another magickian the chance to visit magick upon me like this, akimbomoss...tsk,tsk,naughty boy. [wink2] [tongue] [clown]

...fact is i believe there is something definitely wrong with my brain... money related ... i do not manage to hold on to money, i gamble them instantly, as if i want to lose , as if i want to feel horrible and depressed afterwards...

the second i have money in my pocket i kinda zone out and phase out any other thoughts other than gambling. i do not think of nothing else, no divination, no rituals, no bills, nor to save money for food or rent ...nothing

afterwards i kinda wake up, and ...what have i done , and i swear to myself that i wont do it again, never. and i am certain that i will stop, i am certain of it, no more
next paycheck i do it again
nope, i just gamble as if i want to lose , and i manage to chose worst value games ...as i f i want to lose the money

i managed not to make any more debts, i mean i owe small amounts that i can cover easily with my next weekly paycheck.

but if i wont stop itll get worst again.

if anybody has any thoughts or advices that might help me i am open to any suggestion.

This reads like what I 'd tentatively refer to as a 'textbook' Gambling addiction/problem.

...left out something that may be crucial to the investigation.

ever since i started the magic practice, i have been doing mostly "bad" things. i mean like curses, hexes, spells.

i have had incredible results... like sending ppl to prison, making ppl have accidents, even killed my uncle (no, not that sort of uncle...lol, just a stupid idiot that promised to help me financially and didn't.. went to his house one day, (only been there like twice in 30 years...), and did a nice cursing ritual on him, with help from some american friend ... next day i got a call he was dead.)
imagine that.
i still do curse ppl and "work" against many, basically because they are not nice ppl , and cause i like it, and because it is easy to do it.

but can't help to wonder if thats what makes my life not so pleasant...to say so.

More importantly,IF YOU THINK ITS CONNECTED,then it will be.

You need a holistic approach,I think.Stop the 'bad' magicks and sort out your finances,re: holding on to money,re educate your attitudes and habits on spending etc.

Get professional/medical advisement on the gambling and work out how to change your compulsion into a healthier [and less ruinous]means of self expression/release and so on.

Sounds easy in writing.It's not.It's life changing and is a big effort,but I think it's necessary for you to 'get off the wheel' and break the cycles.

You won because you could temporarily isolate yourself from the 'mundane' type of expression and could focus on the 'magickal operation' method instead,but it seems you can't sustain that indefinately and it's had negative after effects,so get the consequences/side effects dealt with before you consider any kind of magickal gambling again,if you even should try again.I dunno.

I don't have the impulse for gambling,at all.I have played bingo and won at first,quite large sums,but then I went a couple of times and didn't so I walked away.My view is that I at least want some tangible and consistent result for my spending,like a hangover or comedown even,lol,so throwing good money after bad,dosen't appeal.

My father was a compulsive gambler, I never knew him,but my sister and my daughter have both had to get help and support for gambling problems like you describe.There could be a genetic predisposition or it may be rooted in personality type or indeed as a method of taking control of something in your life,similarly to the ways OCD manifests.I think all kinda apply,in varying degrees,as it's a broad spectrum issue,but there is a lot of research,quite interesting stuff too,about human impulses/control methods,lifestress and other factors involved with those who gamble excessively.

Just my own perspective,but it does seem you need help with this.

Clockwork Ghost · Post by **Clockwork Ghost** » Sun Feb 12, 2012 3:56 am

magus33 wrote:update.

well, since i managed that incredible feat (paying off my debts) i kinda laxed, i mean the rituals and all the magic stuff.

but i did not stop this crazy gambling. this obviously resulted in an endless cycle of misery and stress.

fact is i believe there is something definitely wrong with my brain... money related ... i do not manage to hold on to money, i gamble them instantly, as if i want to lose , as if i want to feel horrible and depressed afterwards...

the second i have money in my pocket i kinda zone out and phase out any other thoughts other than gambling. i do not think of nothing else, no divination, no rituals, no bills, nor to save money for food or rent ...nothing

afterwards i kinda wake up, and ...what have i done , and i swear to myself that i wont do it again, never. and i am certain that i will stop, i am certain of it, no more
next paycheck i do it again
nope, i just gamble as if i want to lose , and i manage to chose worst value games ...as i f i want to lose the money

i managed not to make any more debts, i mean i owe small amounts that i can cover easily with my next weekly paycheck.

but if i wont stop itll get worst again.

if anybody has any thoughts or advices that might help me i am open to any suggestion.

Youre addicted to gambling - its as simple as that. Ive never been addicted to gambling myself, but Ive been addicted to loads of other things, and I can recognise the signs of addiction a mile off.

You need to get help to fight this kind of addiction. Find a gambling support group and call them, otherwise you will get worse and start to get into bigger and bigger debts to feed your addiction.

If you really do want to break the cycle of gambling, go get help. If you dont want to break your habit, dont get help - it really is that simple. Good luck in making the right choice.

magus33 · Post by **magus33** » Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:35 pm

Nahemah wrote:but it seems you can't sustain that indefinately and it's had negative after effects,so get the consequences/side effects dealt with before you consider any kind of magickal gambling again,if you even should try again.I dunno.

Just my own perspective,but it does seem you need help with this.

1 ill try to sustain it.
2 i do not think the "bad" stuff that i do that i do has any relevance... they always deserve it

ill see where it gets me, keep u posted

magus33 · Post by **magus33** » Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:13 pm

akimboy, i am a 27 yrs old caucasian, handsome as hell, with many friends. precious lovely lady friends aswell.

you are upset, i would be too if i were you.

curse u ?
somebody beat me to it

lovely caucasian ladies, eh ? classy ones

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