serpent=evil vs. serpent=wisdom/sexuality

[Occultess]

I was thinking today, about the symbolism of the serpent. It seems like every culture in the world sees serpents/snakes as representing wisdom and/or sexuality.

It seems like Christianity stood out against all others in finding it to represent evil. (I could be wrong, but that's how it seems).

I suppose it kind of makes sense in a way as what is wisdom to the others could easily point to the knowledge given to Adam and Eve from the serpent in the Garden of Eden. And the sexuality easily couples with the forbidden fruit of sex.

How does one culture see it so differently than (seemingly) the rest of the world?

I mean, I guess the Judeo-Christian story of Eden being what it is,....that would be the message in that. But....still...it's strange. It wouldn't be if there was like a variety of different ways of seeing the snake around the world, and this was just another way, but I don't think that's how it is. Or am I wrong and there are more cultures around that see the serpent as evil (and that didn't have any kind of a Judeo-Chrisrian influence)?

And I'm not trying to Christian bash here....it's just something I was thinking about today and I found it strange. It's almost like a rogue belief.

[Nahemah]

Christianity is very much 'cut n shut' in regards to it's origin stories.

I think it's quite easy to find inserts and overwrites, once you begin exploring a little deeper than the surface.A book that has been authored and cross translated over and again,multiple times often loses and misdirects information in the process.

This is also coloured by the politics and social mores of those people who were in power at the time.The growing orthodoxy viewed any beliefs alternative to their own Romanised versions to be heresies and were soon powerful enough to suppress such heresies wherever they arose.


I think you might find Ophitic Gnosticism interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naassenes

[Zeon1985]

At present, the bible is nothing more than a guide, truths being mixed with various opinions of who was in power at the time, as Namehah stated above.

As far as meanings of different animals, I have personally found that the chinese are more accurate than any other source. That's not to say I agree with ALL their philosophies, but it's a good starting point in my humble opinion.

The snake itself is not evil. It's predatory and poisonous, which in that fact alone scares us as a race. Also, the fact that it supposedly was recreated to "bite at our heals" is wrong. They defend their territory. It just so happens that we're trespassing.

As far as sexual energy, I belive the image of an intertwined snake is where we get that image from. Just like humans intertwined during the act, it's a sensual image that taps into our base instincts.

I hope my two cents helps. [smile]

Zeon

[Q789]

It is the three monoetheistic religions that think the serpent is bad- all the others say it is the origins of man.

You see, the history, briefly, is that bc all the worldes spirituality was serpent based (including Judaism). Then after jc open the doors to the mysteries, and constantine produced Christianity- exoteric religion started. It is the three exoteric/monoetheistic religions that have an attitude to the serpent- they rely on fear to control the slaves. Pariarchy is another trait, as with sexual repression and homophobia(strange how pedophilia isn't?). Islam, Cristianity and modern day Judaism all abonable after births of old wisdom- misguided by badly misinterpretations and the dark side of an organised society.

IMO the serpent is represented on several different levels, so don' t think it is an all in one symbol. BTW this business about the 'apples'- is over rated. Firstly, genosis is a mere brief summary of the Sumer myths so if you wanted to know the real details look there. Secondly, the apples where in fact an energy source to ET(William Henry), to power their machines (wormhole). This 'temptaion' business is merely a theological attempt by chritianity to legitimize their theology. temptation is BS. The real reason we got kicked out of the garden (Mining camp) is that after the reptilians interbred with us, we got smart, able to achieve illumination and too hard to handle as slaves. So wave upon waves of humans left South Africa.

Q

[Occultess]

Q[/quote]

It is the three monoetheistic religions that think the serpent is bad- all the others say it is the origins of man.

IMO the serpent is represented on several different levels, so don' t think it is an all in one symbol. BTW this business about the 'apples'- is over rated. Firstly, genosis is a mere brief summary of the Sumer myths so if you wanted to know the real details look there. Secondly, the apples where in fact an energy source to ET(William Henry), to power their machines (wormhole). This 'temptaion' business is merely a theological attempt by chritianity to legitimize their theology. temptation is BS. The real reason we got kicked out of the garden (Mining camp) is that after the reptilians interbred with us, we got smart, able to achieve illumination and too hard to handle as slaves. So wave upon waves of humans left South Africa.

I'm not really sure there really was a serpent in the Garden of Eden at all, now. About a day or so after I wrote my serpent question, I started thinking about how a/the metaphysical property of the apple tree is love and how that must have been a symbolic way to allude to the sex. And if that was symbolic, then what else in the story may have been? I mean, I've already been appraised of the reality of the Garden of Eden versus the biblical account, but still, that provides a direct link to the reality, making it likely symbolic as opposed to just a really horrible rendition of a historical event. Perhaps even as far as, the tree being love and the apples being what the tree produces, becoming then, what love produces, sex.

Anyway, if you think of the serpent as representing sexuality, he really needn't have been present in a physical form at all. Perhaps, he was merely sexual desire put into a physical form. For instance, Sexual desire began speaking to Adam and Eve (from within as it does with all of us) and convinced them to have sex, the product of love here symbolized by the produce from a tree whose essence is love.

Not to mention, if the biblical account is just a symbolized form of the truth, then that indicates the person who originally wrote/created the account recorded in the bible, probably knew what really occured. Which is kind of cool. But kind of unfortunate that it was written in representations rather than direct facts. Perhaps, when the story was new it was generally understood what it really meant.

Neither what I or you have put forth as theories here sounds like what I have heard to be the reality, (some parts maybe, but not all). Nonetheless, I see no harm in coming up with my own ideas about what happened.

[Q789]

Occultest, try the works of William Henry. Don't pay for any of his books, just download and print. You will find that your association of tree, apples etc is out. I do beleive you and I have already discussed what the 'serpent' was. In this case it is either a race of people or/and a wormhole machine.

It is also true that in Hindi symbology the serpent represents sexual desire/Kundalini. Kennath Grant wrote much about this.
Q

[Stukov]

The story in the bible is about ignorance vs knowledge. The deity in the bible wanted man to stay stupid and ignorant (a perfect slave that would love its master) and the story works that men are evil because they disobey and seek knowledge. Knowledge is power and can break the shackles of slavey. Btw there was something I left out in our pms.

[Zeon1985]

The story in the bible is about ignorance vs knowledge. The deity in the bible wanted man to stay stupid and ignorant (a perfect slave that would love its master) and the story works that men are evil because they disobey and seek knowledge. Knowledge is power and can break the shackles of slavey. Btw there was something I left out in our pms.

Never looked at it that way. Very interesting, and with a few very good and accurate points.

Though personally, I do believe you may be a bit biased. In a good way!

Zeon

[arpee]

The Bible slipped up when it comes to the serpent. It also represents the serpent as healing.

There is a story in the bible where God gives a Golden Serpent to CURE the people.

This is agreeing with the idea of the ☤ (Caduceus and Rod of Asclepius).


The Bible also says that The Serpent gave humanity knowledge by getting them to eat The Fruit. God said that they would die ON THE DAY they ate of The Fruit, and The Serpent said "They wouldn't die, but their eyes would be open" and that is exactly what happened...

[Occultess]

The Bible slipped up when it comes to the serpent. It also represents the serpent as healing.

There is a story in the bible where God gives a Golden Serpent to CURE the people.

This is agreeing with the idea of the ☤ (Caduceus and Rod of Asclepius).


The Bible also says that The Serpent gave humanity knowledge by getting them to eat The Fruit. God said that they would die ON THE DAY they ate of The Fruit, and The Serpent said "They wouldn't die, but their eyes would be open" and that is exactly what happened...

Hmmmm.... I didn't know that. Thank-you!

[Nahemah]

The Brazen Serpent:

http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paint ... en-serpent

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nehushtan

And what of the much older Serpentine...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ningishzida

[Serenitydawn]

The story in the bible is about ignorance vs knowledge. The deity in the bible wanted man to stay stupid and ignorant (a perfect slave that would love its master) and the story works that men are evil because they disobey and seek knowledge. Knowledge is power and can break the shackles of slavey. Btw there was something I left out in our pms.

Exactly Adam and Eve were like apes and then were given the gift of knowledge, which christans then demonized the snake for. So christians basically worship stupidity, which I suppose is why most Satanists say "stupidity should be painful." [wink]

[sinistor666@gmail.com]

The Naga are often considered "Wise" and evil.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nag_Panchami

[Elmer Romero]

The story in the bible is about ignorance vs knowledge. The deity in the bible wanted man to stay stupid and ignorant (a perfect slave that would love its master) and the story works that men are evil because they disobey and seek knowledge. Knowledge is power and can break the shackles of slavey. Btw there was something I left out in our pms.

Exactly Adam and Eve were like apes and then were given the gift of knowledge, which christans then demonized the snake for. So christians basically worship stupidity, which I suppose is why most Satanists say "stupidity should be painful." [wink]

On one level, the expulsion from Eden can be understood as a dramatization of psychological development. A newborn infant lives in an Edenic state where it doesn't need to know anything and the universe interacts with it in a way that gives it everything it needs. (Hi, Mom!) As the brain develops, (self)consciousness kicks in: sense of self separated from other beings, learning to depend on language to represent reality instead of perceiving reality directly without the mediating/filtering mechanisms, etc. Bye-bye, Garden!

If Eden and the apple and the expulsion from the garden also have metaphysical overtones, I'll leave that for other people to discuss.

[Stukov]

The story in the bible is about ignorance vs knowledge. The deity in the bible wanted man to stay stupid and ignorant (a perfect slave that would love its master) and the story works that men are evil because they disobey and seek knowledge. Knowledge is power and can break the shackles of slavey. Btw there was something I left out in our pms.

Exactly Adam and Eve were like apes and then were given the gift of knowledge, which christans then demonized the snake for. So christians basically worship stupidity, which I suppose is why most Satanists say "stupidity should be painful." [wink]

On one level, the expulsion from Eden can be understood as a dramatization of psychological development. A newborn infant lives in an Edenic state where it doesn't need to know anything and the universe interacts with it in a way that gives it everything it needs. (Hi, Mom!) As the brain develops, (self)consciousness kicks in: sense of self separated from other beings, learning to depend on language to represent reality instead of perceiving reality directly without the mediating/filtering mechanisms, etc. Bye-bye, Garden!

If Eden and the apple and the expulsion from the garden also have metaphysical overtones, I'll leave that for other people to discuss.

While I can see that, it still neglects the "moral" of the story of an authority figure acting as master ordering his "servants" to not touch the shackles that keeps them slaves, then punishes them severely for disobeying them. If it was really similar to what you said, the parent would encourage the child, in this case, to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge, so that child can learn, grow, take care of themselves, evolve bettering themselves. So that one day, the child could eclipse the parent and have things better than they did. Which goes to show you how poor of a father figure the Abrahamic god really is, even though this story allegorical at best. The old testament/torah is really a work of art that tries to claim how good, righteous, etc this deity is, all the while every fundamental action shows him to be a complete asshole. Any real GOOD parent would have written it like "here are all my failings, please do better than me".

[Ramscha]

Not just the monotheiistic "mass" religions count snakes as evil. Think about the old sumerian god Tiamat or the snake in the Gilgamesch epos eating the plant of eternal life. Also some bad guys. The world eating sea serpent Jörmungandr I wouldn´t consider as friendly too. Don´t want to know what loki did in this night.
World is full of evil snakes [pray], still I like the story of the Mount St. Michael in France where Mikael kicked Lulus butt.

Ramscha