Inverted Pentagram & TOL Planetary Correspondences

[praesidivmdelvx]

Hey everyone, I'm new here. Couple of topics I've been curious about.

1.Inverted pentagram

I believe it was created by pythagoras using a mathematical ratio to create an equilateral triangle and had been adopted into occult practice. Wondering if anyone could elaborate as to what this symbol represents to them & what kind of energies they've experienced working with it.

2.Kether, Chokmah, Daath Planetary Correspondences

While the lower part of the tree seems to always be the same, I've seen all kinds of different placements for Uranus, Pluto, and Neptune

Kether-Uranus
Chokmah-Neptune/Zodiac
Daath-Pluto

Kether-Pluto
Chokmah-Neptune
Daath-Uranus

Kether-Neptune
Chokmah-Pluto
Daath-Uranus

I've also seen them not included at all. Is there a right or wrong way or is it what works best for the individual?
Thanks.

[Ramscha]

Hello and welcome to the forum, nice to meet you [gz]

2.Kether, Chokmah, Daath Planetary Correspondences

While the lower part of the tree seems to always be the same, I've seen all kinds of different placements for Uranus, Pluto, and Neptune

Kether-Uranus
Chokmah-Neptune/Zodiac
Daath-Pluto

Kether-Pluto
Chokmah-Neptune
Daath-Uranus

Kether-Neptune
Chokmah-Pluto
Daath-Uranus

I've also seen them not included at all. Is there a right or wrong way or is it what works best for the individual?

I thought that the holy triade was:
-Kether
-Binah
-Chokmah

Daath was the void, the abyssos between the holy triade and the fallen sephiroth. But I guess the interpretation is much dependent on the hermetic school as well as the adeptus rank one gets into. The question for the correspondences is a really interesting one indeed.

For Kether it is really difficult to say I guess. Since everything orginated in Kether I would consider Kether as the only real stationary part of the tree of life (except Malkuth of course). Therefore on first glance Polaris would make the most sense for me as the astrological correspondece of Kether as it is stationary as well.

For Binah and Chokmah I would again say that it is very dependent on the interpretation. Since Kether is a kind of androgynous entity, but splits into Chokmah (male) and Binah (female) I guess Jupiter for Chokmah and Uranus for Binah would make sense in a way, but I am not really good at this kind of stuff, I can only refer to the little I know about the schools of hermetics, the tree of life and some backgrounds of the subject.

Daath is a very difficult matter. While some old sources (like Sepher Jetzirah) strictly deny that there is something like a 11 sephira more modern interpretations (like Aleister Crowley) give this idea some credit. Difficult to say though since still this part of the tree of life is mostly refered to as border/bridge between the holy triade and the bottom part. Crowleys idea was that the sephira daath is a some kind of extradimensional sephira outside/below the other 10 (again the idea of the abyssos). Anyway, I don't know of any particular planetary correspondece referring to daath (except maybe Saturn considerin the nature of this planetary current), therefore, I would tend to the empty void itself as correspondece of daath.

To sum it up:
Kether - Polaris
Binah - Uranus
Chokmah - Jupiter
Daath - void/Saturn (?)

Again, this is only my personal opinion regarding this matter. Many different schools of hermetic teachings formed over past centuries, many interpretations were done, many opinions were stated. In the end it will depend on your own teachings I guess. You may give it some thought, meditate about it or travel the paths and it may clear up.

Finally, a nice source for research apout the tree of life and some hermetic and quabbalistic basics (though it is in german):
http://hermetik.ch/ath-ha-nour/index.htm


Welcome again, I am looking forward to many interesting discussions [crazy]
Ramscha

[manofsands]

Hey everyone, I'm new here. Couple of topics I've been curious about.

1.Inverted pentagram

I believe it was created by pythagoras using a mathematical ratio to create an equilateral triangle and had been adopted into occult practice.

Well met and welcome.

I had not heard that Pythagoras had anything to do with the pentagram. That is very interesting. I'll have to look into that. What was your source?

I have actually always wondered what was so special about it as well. Other than correspondence to a human body and the elements... I've got nothing. Of course it is suggested that the inversion placed focus on the material over the spiritual.

I am also not well read enough on the Tree of Life correspondences to offer anything... except to suggest that Vulcan could possibly be used as the planetary counterpart to Daath. A supposed planet that had been destroyed could be fitting. I think the theory has possibly been debunked, but it could still be used.

[praesidivmdelvx]

I had not heard that Pythagoras had anything to do with the pentagram. That is very interesting. I'll have to look into that. What was your source?

http://www.amazon.com/Signature-Celesti ... 1855842351

That book seriously solidified a lot of occult ideas and principles for me. A majority of the book is filled with equations and is very heady and hard to follow unless you are a physics major. It shows a lot of planetary conjuctions.

Jupiter & Uranus create a Hexagram
Mars & Venus create a pentagram
There's even one that looks like the tree of life.
Cool shit. best to get it at Half Priced Books.

[manofsands]

An link to an informative site about said book

http://www.keplerstern.com/index.html

The pictures remind me of Spirograph, that I and my sisters use to play with as kids (showing my age here:)

[Eremita]

Hi there, cool thread

On the first part of your post,

Wondering if anyone could elaborate as to what this symbol represents to them

, I must say the only explanation for the inverted pentagram I've ever seen is that it represents subjection of divine power (i.e. God) to the four elements (i.e. the material world). This symbol is used almost exclusively by Satanists who wish to look evil and heavy metal bands for its connection with Satanism (I hope I'm not making enemies here :p). On a more personal spiritual level, the inverted pentagram could be interpreted as a symbol of one's birthright as a human being (a divine creature ensconced in a material body) to control divine power, and become God-like oneself. I personally find it a rather... arrogant?... looking version of the traditional pentagram.

Kether, Chokmah, Daath Planetary Correspondences

My knowledge of Kabbalah is shallow, so read with caution :p

I don't think Kether typically has a planetary correspondence at all - being the source point of all creation, it essentially contains every planetary energy within itself. So I guess the answer would be: all of them.

As far as I know the same applies to Da'ath, but for different reasons - as Ramscha pointed out it's kind of a pseudo-Sephiroth - the place where Egos go to die (isn't it in Da'ath that Choronzon chews away your tasty, tasty flesh and spits out your bones?). The only planetary influence that I could kind of see here is perhaps Saturn (attributed to Binah), but it doesn't seem necessary to form a correspondence for Da'ath.

As for Chokmah - in all the material I've read on Kabbalah, to Chokmah is assigned the Zodiac - but I actually have no idea why. Can someone please enlighten me on this? I really know F/A about Astrology in general; is this because the signs of the Zodiac are representative of potentialities, or am I way off track? Planetary 'personalities' I grapple with by comparing them with the deities after which they are named. When it comes to the Zodiac I'm kind of stumped.

Anyway, hope my ramblings were helpful.

[manofsands]

There was also something mentioned in there about the Pythagoreans using it as their own symbol of identification. I'm guessing this is before it got its darker symbolism... or was it? [twisted]

[praesidivmdelvx]

Ihttp://www.mathsisfun.com/geometry/pentagram.html

[Cybernetic_Jazz]

What I've collected so far for right or wrong:

Obverse pentagram in circle - Pythagoras (pentacle by itself is much older)
Inverse pentagram in circle - Eliphas Levi (could be wrong on that but he was the creator of the Goat of Mendez)

Traditional TOL:
Kether - Premium Mobile
Chokmah - Zodiac/Mazzaloth
Binah - Saturn
Chesed - Jupiter
Geburah - Mars
Tiphareth - Sun
Netzach - Venus
Hod - Mercury
Yesod - Moon
Malkuth - Earth

Bringing in Uranus and Neptune I could see a few different ways of handling Kether, Chokmah, and Daath although I agree with you if you left Binah out for the sake of it being Saturn:

Kether - Neptune
Chokmah - Uranus
Daath - Universe/Premium Mobile

Kether - Neptune
Chokmah - Uranus
Daath - Sirius

This might just be pedantic but Pluto's been declassified and reclassified, almost sits more as a trans-Neptunian object even with Charon orbiting it. Seating it as a proper planet would make me wonder as well if we'd need to find ways to include other transe-Neptunian objects like Eris and Makemake or even to put Ceres between Jupiter and Mars, albeit I suppose it would be fine in Daath if one wanted to place all common astrological spheres on the map. My thought - if we have 8 planets plus moon and sun we've got an even 10 - seems like a neat/tidy place to stop.