Angel thoughtforms / servitors

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Haqim
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Angel thoughtforms / servitors

Post by Haqim »

Hello everyone,

So here's my official First Topic! :D

A few months ago I stopped using my old servitor "team".
I think they are all "dead" or dormant, whatever - I don't really care.
(A note: I've worked with many servitors / thoughtforms, one could say I'm an "advanced user" - so I'm always programming them to become dormant if there's no "job" for them.)

My question is: Has anyone ever created and worked with angel servitors?
To be more precise: angel-like servitors?

I know - it probably doesn't matter what they look like.
Still...
A week ago I've tried to create one and I had to realize that this angelic form makes things difficult...
It didn't work out well. Somehow this angelic form was too much for the thoughtform - it couldn't maintain it(self).

So what do you think?
Has anyone ever tried this (or encountered similar problems)?
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Haqim
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Re: Angel thoughtforms / servitors

Post by Haqim »

UPDATE

Wow, interesting!

After I wrote this post I tried to summon one of my old servitors (my favourite one)... and it was a huge success!
It was dormant, indeed, but after the summoning it could do my bidding instantly! :)

Maybe I should forget this whole angel-like servitor thing.

Oh, by the way: The main idea was that a mage is like (a) god, so his / her servitors and other thoughtforms are like angels.
Yet, as I already told you, servitors with angelic forms didn't work out... for some reason.
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Re: Angel thoughtforms / servitors

Post by Urscumug »

It could be that the angelic form is so laden with various significations that it interferes with your own conception of thoughtforms / servitors.

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Re: Angel thoughtforms / servitors

Post by Haqim »

Urscumug wrote:It could be that the angelic form is so laden with various significations that it interferes with your own conception of thoughtforms / servitors.
Yes, I think you're right.
That's the most probably answer.

However, I wonder: Is it because of my thoughts and beliefs or others' that prevent the "angelic form" of my servitors?
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Re: Angel thoughtforms / servitors

Post by Urscumug »

M'y guess is yours and a bit of others

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Re: Angel thoughtforms / servitors

Post by Haqim »

Urscumug wrote:M'y guess is yours and a bit of others
Which is weird, 'cause I'm not even Christian...

Well, ok, I've worked wit angels a long, long time ago, but those methods weren't even productive (my baby-steps on the occult path).

Maybe I have buried belief about God as an ultimate authority, thus I can't even "borrow" his angels.
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Re: Angel thoughtforms / servitors

Post by cyberdemon »

It's all in the terminology. We, as occultists, use the word Demon to describe any higher being between us and the Admin of the Universe.
From the Abrahamic religion, these higher beings are divided into angels and demons depending on their work, history, and affiliation towards "good" or "evil".
For example, the angel Astarte is also the demon Astaroth.
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Re: Angel thoughtforms / servitors

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cyberdemon wrote:It's all in the terminology. We, as occultists, use the word Demon to describe any higher being between us and the Admin of the Universe.
From the Abrahamic religion, these higher beings are divided into angels and demons depending on their work, history, and affiliation towards "good" or "evil".
For example, the angel Astarte is also the demon Astaroth.
It's only my opinion, but daaamn, I hate Abrahamic definitions and labels.

So a "demon" is a nasty spirit? And what kind of entity exactly?
And an angel is a good entity? And how do we define "good" and "bad"?

That's why I'm so surprised about this whole angel-like servitor topic.
I don't really care religion.
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Re: Angel thoughtforms / servitors

Post by cyberdemon »

Haqim wrote:
cyberdemon wrote:It's all in the terminology. We, as occultists, use the word Demon to describe any higher being between us and the Admin of the Universe.
From the Abrahamic religion, these higher beings are divided into angels and demons depending on their work, history, and affiliation towards "good" or "evil".
For example, the angel Astarte is also the demon Astaroth.
It's only my opinion, but daaamn, I hate Abrahamic definitions and labels.

So a "demon" is a nasty spirit? And what kind of entity exactly?
And an angel is a good entity? And how do we define "good" and "bad"?

That's why I'm so surprised about this whole angel-like servitor topic.
I don't really care religion.
It actually comes into play if you look at the deeper meanings. In general, the Admin of the Universe has placed Moderators to perform universal, quantum maintenance. Calculating orbits, maintaining star-cycles, etc. These mods are the "angels". The rest of them not exactly working under the Admin by free will or otherwise, become "demons" because their free will allows them to mess with the Players of the Universe, ie. humans.

It's an analogy!
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Re: Angel thoughtforms / servitors

Post by Haqim »

cyberdemon wrote:It actually comes into play if you look at the deeper meanings. In general, the Admin of the Universe has placed Moderators to perform universal, quantum maintenance. Calculating orbits, maintaining star-cycles, etc. These mods are the "angels". The rest of them not exactly working under the Admin by free will or otherwise, become "demons" because their free will allows them to mess with the Players of the Universe, ie. humans.

It's an analogy!
Oh, waaait a minuuute!
You're an information model user! :)
Now I get it! :D

Interesting...
I, however, never used Abrahamic (or simply: religious) elements to my information modelled magics.
But it wasn't exactly pure cybermagic - more like a fusion of The Matrix and subjective reality.

P.S.: So demons are rogue programs or viruses?
But why would a virus help me?
Hmm... Ok, in a Christian, superstitious paradigm it might work: demons are free angels, rogue elements in a system; they want to rule the domain of the Admin, right?
So they help mages (reality deviants, wow) to rise against the "Deus ex Machina".
A bit fuzzy, but I think I get it. :D
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Re: Angel thoughtforms / servitors

Post by cyberdemon »

Haqim wrote:Oh, waaait a minuuute!
You're an information model user! :)
Now I get it! :D

Interesting...
I, however, never used Abrahamic (or simply: religious) elements to my information modelled magics.
But it wasn't exactly pure cybermagic - more like a fusion of The Matrix and subjective reality.

P.S.: So demons are rogue programs or viruses?
But why would a virus help me?
Hmm... Ok, in a Christian, superstitious paradigm it might work: demons are free angels, rogue elements in a system; they want to rule the domain of the Admin, right?
So they help mages (reality deviants, wow) to rise against the "Deus ex Machina".
A bit fuzzy, but I think I get it. :D
It's just an analogy I find explanatory. I could try to explain the hierarchy of demons in a different way, but it wouldn't come out as nicely.
The way I see it, one doesn't really need any religion of any sort to use magick - it can be technically used and explained in so many ways. My analogies are for esoteric philosophical purposes only.

Computer viruses are human creations. A bit like alchemy, chemistry, drugs..
Demons are moderators without responsibility, free to use their abilities as they please.
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Re: Angel thoughtforms / servitors

Post by Haqim »

cyberdemon wrote:
It's just an analogy I find explanatory. I could try to explain the hierarchy of demons in a different way, but it wouldn't come out as nicely.
The way I see it, one doesn't really need any religion of any sort to use magick - it can be technically used and explained in so many ways. My analogies are for esoteric philosophical purposes only.

Computer viruses are human creations. A bit like alchemy, chemistry, drugs..
Demons are moderators without responsibility, free to use their abilities as they please.
I see.
It's a very interesting view, cyberdemon! :)
Thank you for explaining things! ;)

P.S.: I think I'll ask you to tell me more about your (meta-)paradigm in the future - if it's not a problem.
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Re: Angel thoughtforms / servitors

Post by cyberdemon »

Haqim wrote:I see.
It's a very interesting view, cyberdemon! :)
Thank you for explaining things! ;)

P.S.: I think I'll ask you to tell me more about your (meta-)paradigm in the future - if it's not a problem.
Anytime. I'll be happy to share my thoughts.
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Re: Angel thoughtforms / servitors

Post by Haqim »

cyberdemon wrote:
Haqim wrote:I see.
It's a very interesting view, cyberdemon! :)
Thank you for explaining things! ;)

P.S.: I think I'll ask you to tell me more about your (meta-)paradigm in the future - if it's not a problem.
Anytime. I'll be happy to share my thoughts.
Thank you, cyberdemon!
You are very kind. :)
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Re: Angel thoughtforms / servitors

Post by GreySorc »

cyberdemon wrote:
Haqim wrote:
cyberdemon wrote:It's all in the terminology. We, as occultists, use the word Demon to describe any higher being between us and the Admin of the Universe.
From the Abrahamic religion, these higher beings are divided into angels and demons depending on their work, history, and affiliation towards "good" or "evil".
For example, the angel Astarte is also the demon Astaroth.
It's only my opinion, but daaamn, I hate Abrahamic definitions and labels.

So a "demon" is a nasty spirit? And what kind of entity exactly?
And an angel is a good entity? And how do we define "good" and "bad"?

That's why I'm so surprised about this whole angel-like servitor topic.
I don't really care religion.
It actually comes into play if you look at the deeper meanings. In general, the Admin of the Universe has placed Moderators to perform universal, quantum maintenance. Calculating orbits, maintaining star-cycles, etc. These mods are the "angels". The rest of them not exactly working under the Admin by free will or otherwise, become "demons" because their free will allows them to mess with the Players of the Universe, ie. humans.

It's an analogy!
thanks for this.

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Re: Angel thoughtforms / servitors

Post by Haelos »

cyberdemon wrote:It's all in the terminology. We, as occultists, use the word Demon to describe any higher being between us and the Admin of the Universe.
From the Abrahamic religion, these higher beings are divided into angels and demons depending on their work, history, and affiliation towards "good" or "evil".
For example, the angel Astarte is also the demon Astaroth.
I really like how Cyberdemon explains things in the form of a game, as it makes things easier to put a true grasp on. These metaphors are great for this day and age, but I have some personal differences I'd like to point out.

Technically, there usually isn't one Admin. I like to use the term GM, or Game Master, to refer to what Cyber calls the "Admin." He is the grand architect, after all.
Also, I don't stray towards the use of such words as demon and angel. I use "higher" and "lesser beings". Higher entities are those he calls angels, who keep the universe working properly. I would call these creatures the developers and administrators. They come in both positive and negative forms.
Lesser beings are those sentient creatures who range anywhere from NPC to vagrant AI to virus. They come in every shape and form, and can be artificial or natural.
Then you have us, the players (or, depending on your views, *you,* the playeR.)

I also believe that culture and society has split most entities, causing them to become less of one aspect in a particular name, and more of that aspect in the "opposite" name.
Your example of Astarte and Astaroth works well. Asarte no longer has the negative associations with him that he used to have when he and Astaroth were the same entity, and had a unified name.

This last piece is, of course, personal speculation, but from what I've gathered and learned about various entites, they are quite malleable by the collective, but very powerful and overwhelming to the individual.
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Re: Angel thoughtforms / servitors

Post by Haelos »

Here's what I've come up with, more simply written;

GM/Game Master = God
Creation (stuff) = Developers
Law = Administrators
NPC = Simple creatures
Virus = Advanced creatures
AI = Human-made creatures
Player = Us

As a rough outline. I think that really covers everything.
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"God is an imprecise name for the only thing in the universe that actually exists."
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Tell me what you know about darkness, and I will tell you about the light.
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Planetary Associations of Common Intoxicants
The Mysteries of Death

https://hdagaz.wordpress.com/

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Re: Angel thoughtforms / servitors

Post by DeclareInsane »

Great topic.

I've worked with both. Angelic didn't really pack much of a punch but demonic had more power. The reason I use them is they can both take you into a sense of deep gnosis. Which is great if you want to work quickly which again creates better results. The first time I worked with demons my personality changed very quickly. In my studies these things don't exist, they are only "thought forms" but how can it alter my personality? Using one of my servitors I sat in deep contemplation.

In the social world angels represent good forces and demons represent evil and bad. These universal concepts accepted by general society are cemented in our minds especially as children so regardless of how we use them they will inhabit the effect which goes with their association. They feed off your unconscious beliefs.

For this reason I changed my self banishing ritual to make it stronger so my beliefs are out the door and I'm an unwritten open slate. Though same stuff stuck because I summoned my magickal self therefore only the useful ones stuck. With demonic symbolism you can achieve a deeper sense of gnosis because it's taboo and scary which takes you to an alter state of mind. This is how black magick works, it triggers a heighten state of suggestibility "gnosis" by scaring you it triggers the flight or fight response more deeply. Threat and fear triggers the reptilian brain's survival priorities thus giving us clear access to the unconscious. Ok so that was a mouth full... [devil]
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