Demons Supporting Crimes

[Candy Ray]

I've decided to make a new topic for the discussion we were having in my 'Media Magic' thread. Let us say that you have a liberal and broad-minded view about demons. You don't want to call them wicked or tempters or anything that sounds like the view in the Abrahamic religions. But then you come across a group of demons who are promoting something which is against your conscience. It could be Nazi beliefs which is what we were talking about in the original discussion, or violent crime....supply your own example. How do you react to this? Do you fall back to the categories of good and evil? I always do, in fact I never left those categories behind in the first place.

[cyberdemon]

Same response as before, demons have their own personalities and therefore "angel" or "demon" can do bad things.
"Angels" are just less likely to, because they're either time-tied due to responsibilities and some are stripped of free-will essentially making them robotic.

[Rontu]

Well, I'm a wicked one, so I'd react as I please.
I have no problems to work as a group with people who share other views of life, and in fact I once joined in a nazi group but left due to social anxiety (there was no occultism involved in this group).
Committing a crime in general is no issue for me but I will never do something I don't want to do.
I can't imagine myself in a position where someone could force me to do something against my will, but if I'd ever be in a situation like that, I'd just improvise myself out from it.

Killing a human being (or an animal) for example is something I will never do (excluding if someone tries to kill me), but at the same time it's a truth that there's a lot of killers outside. On every side. And I can't stop them, so I just deal with it.

I also fall in "good'n'bad" categories, I find it hard to not be like this when it comes to people.

[Haelos]

I wasn't a part of your original thread, and I'm a little bit confused on the context of what you mean. However, I'm going to share a few thoughts of my own anyway, to see what anyone has to offer.

Personally, I don't believe good and evil can sum up all things. There will always be shades of gray depending on the angles you decide to look at in that moment. No thing, even murder of another human, can be chalked up so easily as black or white, so I don't let these kinds of things determine my actions.
My consciousness says a only a few simple things. Treat others *how* they treat you, and be kind to the planet (this involves animals and people). The first one can contradict the second sometimes, but they're never in the way of each other. If someone treats me poorly, they get treated in a similar fashion until they change their ways or leave. But I always keep respect for the things that keep our planet functioning.

With those ideas in mind, let's move on to the main topic at hand.
As Cyberdemon said, other entities have their own will and reasoning for doing things. Every other sentient being on the planet and in existence are out for their own ends. They will do whatever they need to get done, what they think needs done.
Whether what they do is considered good or evil falls once again under subjectivity.

For instance, I think a lot of the beginnings or World War 2 were justified. Hitler offered to PAY the Jewish race to leave Germany after they destroyed his economy. He was going to give every Jewish banker in Germany his own governments cash to move them and their families out of the country, and the Jews still stayed around screwing crap up. It was unfortunate it spilled into the parts of the race who had no choice in that 1% of bankers actions, but such is life.
Almost any other race he tried to kill of was likely due to their knowledge in magick and ritual (Africans, Gypsies, even the Jews themselves, all very heavy magick-using cultures) and his attempts to move forward plans with the Vril and Thule societies.

There's only one thing I really disagree with, and it's by no fault of any demons or higher beings. It's us, here on Terra, killing ourselves and our loved ones off over stupid shit, every single day. How we treat each other and our star and absolutely loathsome.
I'm sure higher beings have their sway over world events, but humans need to learn from their past idiocy and start forcing their own evolution, or be killed off. No demon can force an awakened person to do anything they don't want to. Which means this is all by human choice.

This got kinda ranty, I'm gonna end it here. I hope I got my point across.

[Desecrated]

Why would a group of demons even be interested in crime?
That sounds a little bit below their level.

[Candy Ray]

I wasn't a part of your original thread, and I'm a little bit confused on the context of what you mean.

Sorry if it's confusing. The original conversation was about my past-life memories. I remember that after the Egyptians were drowned in the Red Sea, during the time of Moses, they made a plan to get revenge in the distant future by means of the Nazi movement appearing.I was distressed that a large group of demons supported this plan and I felt that it proves demons are evil after all.

I can see that some of you replying here have a different view of the Nazis from me and it is probably because I'm English, and in England you are brought up with a particular interpretation of the World War 2 events. So I won't get into the politics too much. I just notice that a lot of modern occultists say they don't believe there is such a thing as the left hand path and the right hand path. But if they had an experience like the event I remembered maybe they would change their minds.When I first came in contact with angels and demons I experienced that they talked about which of these paths they were on, and some of them even changed sides, temporarily or permanently.Good and evil still seemed to be a thing with them, but not so much with humans any more.

[Desecrated]

I

For instance, I think a lot of the beginnings or World War 2 were justified. Hitler offered to PAY the Jewish race to leave Germany after they destroyed his economy. He was going to give every Jewish banker in Germany his own governments cash to move them and their families out of the country, and the Jews still stayed around screwing crap up. It was unfortunate it spilled into the parts of the race who had no choice in that 1% of bankers actions, but such is life.
Almost any other race he tried to kill of was likely due to their knowledge in magick and ritual (Africans, Gypsies, even the Jews themselves, all very heavy magick-using cultures) and his attempts to move forward plans with the Vril and Thule societies..

That is not even remotely close to reality.

[cyberdemon]

I

For instance, I think a lot of the beginnings or World War 2 were justified. Hitler offered to PAY the Jewish race to leave Germany after they destroyed his economy. He was going to give every Jewish banker in Germany his own governments cash to move them and their families out of the country, and the Jews still stayed around screwing crap up. It was unfortunate it spilled into the parts of the race who had no choice in that 1% of bankers actions, but such is life.
Almost any other race he tried to kill of was likely due to their knowledge in magick and ritual (Africans, Gypsies, even the Jews themselves, all very heavy magick-using cultures) and his attempts to move forward plans with the Vril and Thule societies..

That is not even remotely close to reality.

You wouldn't know, you weren't there!
It's fun to give ear to "speculative theory" sometimes, Des.

[Candy Ray]

[quote
That is not even remotely close to reality.][/quote]

That's what I thought as well, and I have Jewish relatives on one side of my family,but we're not here to get into a big political row as this is an occult forum! The point is, I am sure that we would all be opposed to massacres and concentration camps. When I first became an occultist I used to think that was the test of loyalty on the left hand path: are you prepared to back up man's inhumanity to man? Then I discovered it is more a case of "do what thou wilt" or "let's play a video game with magic in it and not talk about crime or politics at at all." So I went along with that, but I'm interested in how the demons feel about the choices we make.

I was thinking this morning, maybe I should do a paradigm shift to a philosophy in which my past-life memories and the the things I think demons have said are all imaginary. That would knock the whole problem into oblivion and solve it at one stroke. That's how I think now I've taken up chaos magic!

[cyberdemon]

I was thinking this morning, maybe I should do a paradigm shift to a philosophy in which my past-life memories and the the things I think demons have said are all imaginary. That would knock the whole problem into oblivion and solve it at one stroke. That's how I think now I've taken up chaos magic!

Welcome to my department!
Now you'll have to think of the practical applications of your past-life knowledge and all sorts of things.

[Horny Goat]

I forget where I read this now but there was a case involving a man who was jailed for crimes he committed as a result of what appeared to be possession. This man had committed a number of crimes, robberies I suppose, for which he had little to gain as he wasn't even poor. In his defence he insisted that what happened was that the spirit of an elderly woman would materialise close by, approach him, enter into him and possess him then commit these crimes. It was a poor defence as he was still convicted and jailed, but in jail it was confirmed by the prison Chaplin, as well as a number of other inmates, that a cloud like something had materialised in his prescence and that in this cloud could clearly be seen the face of an old woman. They had seen it approach him and enter into him. This he confessed to a psychiatrist.

With regards to what started WW2. It appears that the good guys ie. the British, the French, and the Polish were not quite so good as they would have us all now think. Hitler and his people were undoubtably very, very bad indeed, but the goodies were not so good as they like to make out. Whether WW1 & WW2 occurred under the influence of spiritual evil ie, the hidden manipulation of 'Satan' as so many Christians believe is a matter for conjecture. What to you think?

I would also add that there are some truly appalling crimes committed in which even experts on these matters ask is the perpetrator evil, insane, or possessed? I think of the case of a young man who used to deliberately target very old women, breaking into their houses and raping them.

[cyberdemon]

With regards to what started WW2. It appears that the good guys ie. the British, the French, and the Polish were not quite so good as they would have us all now think. Hitler and his people were undoubtably very, very bad indeed, but the goodies were not so good as they like to make out. Whether WW1 & WW2 occurred under the influence of spiritual evil ie, the hidden manipulation of 'Satan' as so many Christians believe is a matter for conjecture. What to you think?

That's not it. What she saw was the "true" birth of the conspiracy, long, long, long before any of the people you've mentioned came into play.

[Stukov]

With regards to what started WW2. It appears that the good guys ie. the British, the French, and the Polish were not quite so good as they would have us all now think. Hitler and his people were undoubtably very, very bad indeed, but the goodies were not so good as they like to make out. Whether WW1 & WW2 occurred under the influence of spiritual evil ie, the hidden manipulation of 'Satan' as so many Christians believe is a matter for conjecture. What to you think?

That's not it. What she saw was the "true" birth of the conspiracy, long, long, long before any of the people you've mentioned came into play.

On top of that Horny Goat is making the historical mistake of looking at values of an old world and applying todays relative moral standard to them to extrapolate good/evil. Sociologically 25 years ago was quite different than today is, 50 years more so, keep going and you see a major divide between what was socially acceptable and what was not.

[Haelos]

Forgot to post here...

I know some people will likely disagree on my view on the event I spoke of. This is not the debate.
The argument here, is that we can't so simply throw everything into a category of good and bad. They are simply two points on the same scale of measurement.

As some one beautiful on these forums once said, "There is no black or white in our world. There is every color of the rainbow, at all times."
I probably butchered it, but you get the point.
When you take an event, circumstance, idea, thought, anything... You can take that thing and view it in both the light and the dark, seeing it totally different, but none less beautiful than the other.

All other higher beings have their own goals and methods of acting, but all of which are an integral part of our reality. What we see as an unnecessary evil, they could see as an absolutely needed, predetermined event. We couldn't know, we aren't them.


Sorry for coming in to throw grease on the fire, but I need to force people to think with an open-mind by giving them confrontation, otherwise, they recess into their ways of safety and belief.

[Horny Goat]

The world hasn't moved on from WW2, it just pretends it has. The same goals of conquest and dominance rule. The British empire has gone but Germany now has a great empire, the EU, and so does the USA but neither country wants it openly called an empire. Democracy is very much under threat from those who want power without election. Values haven't changed. They're just more hypocritical about them. The hand of 'Satan' in world events is as hidden as God's is in creation but it's still there.