IIH: Step 2 !!!

[RockDemon]

Hello guys, so I am practicing IIH step 2 for a few days now... [yay] I solved the breathing issues and reached mind vacancy as is needed.
I would like to thank this community for helping me thus far. Especially many thanks to Haelos, Corvidus, Rin, Shinichi for setting and guiding me through the Path of Hermeticism. You are all amazing!!!
Let's bring in some triumphant music to celebrate

[yay] [yay] [happy2]



While in step 2 everything starts to make more sense, with meditations and observations I am able to understand more and more, still I would like to hear your experiences and advice my experienced friends.

So let's start with
Autosuggestions.
How do you practice this? Do you do this in a modern way - with a recording and earphones or the traditional way as Bardon says it? In my opinion the traditional way is better.
I do not use a string of beads yet, to count. Instead I do this for instance "I am conscious all the time 1, I am conscious all the time 2 ... I am conscious all the time 40". But probably doing it with the string is better, isn't it ?

About the phrase. So one of my negative traits is being not attentive, forgetting things, misplacing things and so on. I found out that these happen because I am usually not conscious, I wander in my own thoughts, daydream and so on. So the phrase "I am aware/conscious all the time" is probably going to work? It seems to work so far for a few days, but can you think of anything better?
And is it okay to use english phrases if it is not my mother tongue. I don't have any problems with English language. I sometimes daydream and think in English as well.

The Mental Training
So as I get from reading the step 2 and the commentaries one does the sensational exercises step by step and not the same time. In the commentaries it is also stated that the first sensory training is going to take around a 6 month, and the other ones around 2 months. And the student should start with his strongest faculty.
I started to do the visualization exercise these 2 days, however since I am a musician I guess my strongest sense is the hearing. So yesterday I experimented with it. In fact I am able to hear the sound of the clock, whenever I want to in just a matter of seconds. I am able to produce and listen to whole songs and complex melodies in my mind. Yesterday when I was in a noisy public transport I managed to play my phone's ringtone (android's backroad) in around 10 -20 minutes uninterrupted, and I could go on, it just reached my bus stop. I can do the same with the clock sound, and any sound I guess, (I'll experiment some more). I will probably have just some difficulties to not visualize anything along the sound, but so far that hasn't been much of a problem. So isn't that exactly what is expected in this step or am I missing something?

The Physical Training
Please describe the conscious pore breathing in your words. How does it feel? I get this kind of cold, more like chilly and refreshing feeling of the air around my skin.

[Haelos]

Hello guys, so I am practicing IIH step 2 for a few days now... [yay] I solved the breathing issues and reached mind vacancy as is needed.
I would like to thank this community for helping me thus far. Especially many thanks to Haelos, Corvidus, Rin, Shinichi for setting and guiding me through the Path of Hermeticism. You are all amazing!!!

First off, thanks for the shout out. Oddly enough, the people you mentioned have also helped me greatly in my path. I'd also add a few others as well, but for different knowledge bases.

So let's start with
Autosuggestions.
How do you practice this? Do you do this in a modern way - with a recording and earphones or the traditional way as Bardon says it? In my opinion the traditional way is better.

Just to state, I get the steps a bit mixed up, so forgive me if I say anything ahead of where you are.

I can't under-state how impressive and powerful autosuggestion is.
I guess I would practice it the "traditional" way.
Not quite like Bardon says though.

For food and drink impregnation, as well as basic autosuggestion before sleep and throughout my day, I usually use one-word statements of intent, such as "Health," or "Knowledge." I don't use beads to count, mostly because I haven't taken the time to make myself a good set for magick use. I actually don't count at all for autosuggestion. I might need to change that.

About the phrase. So one of my negative traits is being not attentive, forgetting things, misplacing things and so on. I found out that these happen because I am usually not conscious, I wander in my own thoughts, daydream and so on. So the phrase "I am aware/conscious all the time" is probably going to work? It seems to work so far for a few days, but can you think of anything better?
And is it okay to use english phrases if it is not my mother tongue. I don't have any problems with English language. I sometimes daydream and think in English as well.

I have this exact issue. There's a place we go, and I can't quite describe it, but you aren't really "here."

I've had moments where I spent a good 20+ minutes performing an activity, only to remember myself consciously and realize I have no idea what I was just doing or where I even am.

I've found that my point of perception "moves down", so to speak, when I'm not being attentive. For instance, when you're clearly focuses and with pin-point attention, your center of perception (where you "are") is located more in your brain-region. Close to the middle of your head and near your forehead.

When your attention is misdirected, at least for me, I've found my point of perception to be closer to my mouth or throat area. I have to physically move my center upwards and into my brain again to remember myself. It's a truly interesting feeling, and I think only people on the same path as me would be likely to experience it. Maybe what I've said is something you can relate to.

The Mental Training
So as I get from reading the step 2 and the commentaries one does the sensational exercises step by step and not the same time. In the commentaries it is also stated that the first sensory training is going to take around a 6 month, and the other ones around 2 months. And the student should start with his strongest faculty.
I started to do the visualization exercise these 2 days, however since I am a musician I guess my strongest sense is the hearing. So yesterday I experimented with it. In fact I am able to hear the sound of the clock, whenever I want to in just a matter of seconds. I am able to produce and listen to whole songs and complex melodies in my mind. Yesterday when I was in a noisy public transport I managed to play my phone's ringtone (android's backroad) in around 10 -20 minutes uninterrupted, and I could go on, it just reached my bus stop. I can do the same with the clock sound, and any sound I guess, (I'll experiment some more). I will probably have just some difficulties to not visualize anything along the sound, but so far that hasn't been much of a problem. So isn't that exactly what is expected in this step or am I missing something?

Some senses come easier than others. For instance, I'm also very good at mentally reproducing sounds, but I have extreme difficulties mentally producing the elements (ie. heat, coldness, heaviness, and expansiveness). This has lead to troubles for me in later exercises. I feel like you, as myself, are probably a little bit ahead of yourself in this path. You already know these things, and have practiced them before, but you're now spending the time to remember them again. Bardon's timings in his book are more for the Fresh Soul; a human taking their very first steps into spiritual enlightenment and progression.
You will have varied success in varying times, especially if you have a tendency for certain spiritual and physical concepts to just "click" in your mind.

The Physical Training
Please describe the conscious pore breathing in your words. How does it feel? I get this kind of cold, more like chilly and refreshing feeling of the air around my skin.

It is very much like you describe. It really feels like wind is being sucked into your skin. This is why the physical part of step 1 is so important. If your skin can't breathe, and is covered in dirt, it creates an obvious physical barrier. On a secondary, off-topic note, being covered in dirt and skin oils / mental garbage can actually be beneficial in a few certain ways, though not to the training and practicing magician. There really are benefits to dulling the senses, just not in terms of spiritual progression, and that's a big thing with Bardon. Hyper-awareness isn't always an easy thing to handle, nor is it something you always want to handle.

I have no issues breathing inward through my pores, but breathing out is a bit more difficult. Especially if I'm trying to pass an energetic blockage.
Breathing outwards it feels more like a bubble is swelling up under my skin. For a while, I caused an issue in the muscles in the front of my throat. I tried pore-breathing a blockage out of my neck area, and it wouldn't budge past my skin, causing my muscles to swell painfully. It felt like the tendons in my throat were pumped full of a thick fluid.
It was unpleasant to say the least, and I learned that only fully breathing the blockage out from it's source, through my body, and out my nose, is the only way to successfully pass them. Also intense crying. Which is weird.

Anyway, I hope some of what I mentioned here will continue to help you. I like to see people progressing well. It gives me some hope.
Keep up your good work, and remember to make especial use of what works for you.

[Haelos]

Oh, also, ignore the commentary, to a certain extent. It throws a lot of impossible standards and was written by people who didn't actually complete IIH themselves, basically making up their additions as they went.

Not that they don't offer anything useful, but don't live by them. They obviously aren't Bardon, and therefore aren't to be trusted, even in the slightest degree. You can only trust Bardon because he has given accurate and reliable results. He's made true magicians. The Veos Commentary people have not.

[RockDemon]

First off, thanks for the shout out. Oddly enough, the people you mentioned have also helped me greatly in my path. I'd also add a few others as well, but for different knowledge bases.

No problem at all, I appreciate and grateful. And it feels great to be grateful. You know these dull part of speeches or the books like "many thanks to... for this... thanks to ... for this, also I'm thankful to ... for that etc" . I always read these , they are sometimes the most important part of the book.
Yes I'm thankful to many people from here as well, but this thread is for IIH specifically.

Just to state, I get the steps a bit mixed up, so forgive me if I say anything ahead of where you are.

I can't under-state how impressive and powerful autosuggestion is.
I guess I would practice it the "traditional" way.
Not quite like Bardon says though.

For food and drink impregnation, as well as basic autosuggestion before sleep and throughout my day, I usually use one-word statements of intent, such as "Health," or "Knowledge." I don't use beads to count, mostly because I haven't taken the time to make myself a good set for magick use. I actually don't count at all for autosuggestion. I might need to change that

Yes indeed. I used autosuggestions back a while when I still was at step 1 for my smoking. And I do not smoke for 2-3 months now.
I use one-word statements for impregnation as well. I also found out through experimentation that in fact imagination along these works even better. If memory serves I stumbled to a thread of yours , (the name was something like "Please read this, I am not good with headers") in which you asked is it better to visualize or to state intent when doing spells. I would say both. However after having some discussion with Shinichi, I decided to use just statements and use imagination after it is trained in step 2 and step 3.

I have this exact issue. There's a place we go, and I can't quite describe it, but you aren't really "here."

I've had moments where I spent a good 20+ minutes performing an activity, only to remember myself consciously and realize I have no idea what I was just doing or where I even am.

I've found that my point of perception "moves down", so to speak, when I'm not being attentive. For instance, when you're clearly focuses and with pin-point attention, your center of perception (where you "are") is located more in your brain-region. Close to the middle of your head and near your forehead.

When your attention is misdirected, at least for me, I've found my point of perception to be closer to my mouth or throat area. I have to physically move my center upwards and into my brain again to remember myself. It's a truly interesting feeling, and I think only people on the same path as me would be likely to experience it. Maybe what I've said is something you can relate to.

So true. It is exactly the same way. Especially now that you mention it , the attention do tends to go somewhere down or out of mind area. Step 1 exercises were very helpful for concentration. But I want to root-solve this problem.

By the way are you familiar with Dream and Sleep Yoga by Rinpoche ? I think there some connections here. According to it the following happens. When we sleep and dream, our mind begins to wander through our chakras. Moreover it tends to get locked on the chakras that are closed or have some issues. Probably the same is with daydream.
Once when meditating before to fall asleep I was able to consciously observe the process. It seemed that my mind/energy was at first locked in mooladhara. Then after some time, it went up to solar plexus, being locked up there for a while, it went up again to anahata chakra or heart chakra. Being locked there for a while, it went up to throat chakra. Then it was going back and forth between the heart and throat chakra. And not going up than throat chakra anymore. I tried even to consciously bring it forth, but it didn't worked that much, and after a while the energy went back to the mooladhara again. And the process repeated. I guess I have some serious issues in my heart and throat chakra.
Maybe the same process happens when daydreaming and you have some issues with throat chakra as well?
Thus maybe if we resolve these issues we'll be able to be conscious all the time? What do you think?

Some senses come easier than others. For instance, I'm also very good at mentally reproducing sounds, but I have extreme difficulties mentally producing the elements (ie. heat, coldness, heaviness, and expansiveness). This has lead to troubles for me in later exercises. I feel like you, as myself, are probably a little bit ahead of yourself in this path. You already know these things, and have practiced them before, but you're now spending the time to remember them again. Bardon's timings in his book are more for the Fresh Soul; a human taking their very first steps into spiritual enlightenment and progression.
You will have varied success in varying times, especially if you have a tendency for certain spiritual and physical concepts to just "click" in your mind.

A similar process was with step 1. I already was used to meditate when I began IIH. So observation and concentrating on a thought were relatively easy.
However before IIH I usually meditated with guided meditations or binaural beats. So vacancy was a little beat tricky. Having nothing to concentrate on , I began to messing with my breath. Fortunately I was able to resolve it by first doing some rhythmic breaths then meditating.

Besides when I wasn't so much into the occult yet and some series of death and rebirth events where happening to my life in a few years, I was keeping a "diary of philosophical thoughts". And I found it a few days back and when I read it, it seems that I was able to discover many universal laws on my own. Just using my own words. Moreover many times the writing process resembled to be an automatic, maybe some spirit channeled those to me?

I have no issues breathing inward through my pores, but breathing out is a bit more difficult. Especially if I'm trying to pass an energetic blockage.
Breathing outwards it feels more like a bubble is swelling up under my skin. For a while, I caused an issue in the muscles in the front of my throat. I tried pore-breathing a blockage out of my neck area, and it wouldn't budge past my skin, causing my muscles to swell painfully. It felt like the tendons in my throat were pumped full of a thick fluid.
It was unpleasant to say the least, and I learned that only fully breathing the blockage out from it's source, through my body, and out my nose, is the only way to successfully pass them. Also intense crying. Which is weird.

Well this is kinda strange. I didn't breath out with pores yet, however today since the morning till now I have some strange feeling in my throat. I thought that this is just that I caught a flu/cold, but it is a little bit different, and is very similar to the feeling you describe. Need to do more observations.
Do you think this feeling you had in throat may complement the supposition about the throat chakra issues?

Oh, also, ignore the commentary, to a certain extent. It throws a lot of impossible standards and was written by people who didn't actually complete IIH themselves, basically making up their additions as they went.

Not that they don't offer anything useful, but don't live by them. They obviously aren't Bardon, and therefore aren't to be trusted, even in the slightest degree. You can only trust Bardon because he has given accurate and reliable results. He's made true magicians. The Veos Commentary people have not.

Yes that is exactly how I usually approach them,they are helpful in a way, but just to some degree.

Anyway, I hope some of what I mentioned here will continue to help you. I like to see people progressing well. It gives me some hope.
Keep up your good work, and remember to make especial use of what works for you.

Yes Haelos, thank you again!

[RockDemon]

Nobody else wants to give anymore tips ?

[corvidus]

I meant to post earlier, but I got distracted
Thanks for the shout out though!

Autosuggestions.
How do you practice this? Do you do this in a modern way - with a recording and earphones or the traditional way as Bardon says it?

I practice it a bit differently than Bardon, but it's quite similar. First I center myself and produce mental silence. The point of Autosuggestions is to speak from the unconscious mind, zo i try to speAK from that perspective. Just saying it consciously over and over again has limited effects, from my experience (one reason why it's the step after mental vacancy).

Next, I state my intent for the autosuggestions like this: "ABRACADABRA, I create what I speak! I am sober and chaste, celibate and confident in my path, ABRACADABRA, let it be!"

For me, doing it this way is an exercise of willpower, and now it's up to my conscious mind to continue following my subconscious will.

The Mental Training
I will probably have just some difficulties to not visualize anything along the sound, but so far that hasn't been much of a problem. So isn't that exactly what is expected in this step or am I missing something?

Just remember that, according to Hermetic philosophy, all things are rooted in and are adaptations of One Thing. In this case, the senses are adaptations of Awareness. Awareness can be placed at different levels (as I'm sure you've found out through mental vacancy excersises). So, while it's good practice to focus on one aspect of Awareness -- sight, hearing, touch, etc -- there is also a need to practice them all together. If you ever decide to try out any mystical practices, the goal is to unify all the senses, and then rise up into Union to fully experience qualities of the Divine.

For example, if i were to do this clock visualization excersises, I first visualize the clock, then I hear it ticking, then I feel the moment of its gears and the wood encasing it, as well as the smell of the grease and the taste of it. I would focus on each sense for a few minutes, then switch. In the end, I would try to put them all together to fully experience the 'clock'.

The Physical Training
Please describe the conscious pore breathing in your words. How does it feel? I get this kind of cold, more like chilly and refreshing feeling of the air around my skin.

When I'm out in the woods, it feels like I'm finally able to breath. There is no stagnant energy out there. If I'm doing it in my house, it just reminds me I need to clean. If I try to 'breath' in public, I quickly feel the urge to leave the room. In other words, be careful where you decide to pull in energy from

[Rin]

I'm having to restrict my typing to short bursts due to a small hand injury, but I'll write up a longer reply when I can. In the meantime, congrats

Just remember to not rest on your laurels :p Keep up with the Step 1 training in addition to the new work - I made the mistake of neglecting it when I moved up to Step 2 the first time and the resulting setback was frustrating.

[RockDemon]

I meant to post earlier, but I got distracted
Thanks for the shout out though!

yeah I thought so

I practice it a bit differently than Bardon, but it's quite similar. First I center myself and produce mental silence. The point of Autosuggestions is to speak from the unconscious mind, zo i try to speAK from that perspective. Just saying it consciously over and over again has limited effects, from my experience (one reason why it's the step after mental vacancy).

I do the same, I always meditate before sleep. I clear my mind. Then do Autosuggestion and then sleep.

"ABRACADABRA, I create what I speak! I am sober and chaste, celibate and confident in my path, ABRACADABRA, let it be!"

So you try to affect many virtues and vices all at once? Did you try doing it with small steps? For instance selecting just one vice from your mirror and then do autosuggestions for that one. Then pass to another vice ?

Just remember that, according to Hermetic philosophy, all things are rooted in and are adaptations of One Thing. In this case, the senses are adaptations of Awareness. Awareness can be placed at different levels (as I'm sure you've found out through mental vacancy excersises). So, while it's good practice to focus on one aspect of Awareness -- sight, hearing, touch, etc -- there is also a need to practice them all together. If you ever decide to try out any mystical practices, the goal is to unify all the senses, and then rise up into Union to fully experience qualities of the Divine.

For example, if i were to do this clock visualization excersises, I first visualize the clock, then I hear it ticking, then I feel the moment of its gears and the wood encasing it, as well as the smell of the grease and the taste of it. I would focus on each sense for a few minutes, then switch. In the end, I would try to put them all together to fully experience the 'clock'.

Yes I understand and agree, but isn't that the work of step 3?

When I'm out in the woods, it feels like I'm finally able to breath. There is no stagnant energy out there. If I'm doing it in my house, it just reminds me I need to clean. If I try to 'breath' in public, I quickly feel the urge to leave the room. In other words, be careful where you decide to pull in energy from

Indeed. I noticed these at once when I did pore breathing in a few different places. Do you think it will affect also the quality when I start to impregnate the energy?

[RockDemon]

I'm having to restrict my typing to short bursts due to a small hand injury, but I'll write up a longer reply when I can. In the meantime, congrats

Just remember to not rest on your laurels :p Keep up with the Step 1 training in addition to the new work - I made the mistake of neglecting it when I moved up to Step 2 the first time and the resulting setback was frustrating.

Oh I am sorry to hear about the injury. Get well soon Rin. Looking forward to your detailed reply.
Surely I will not ignore step 1 work. It is much more effective when I meditate rest my mind , and then start imagination exercises then with a burdened mind.

[corvidus]

So you try to affect many virtues and vices all at once? Did you try doing it with small steps? For instance selecting just one vice from your mirror and then do autosuggestions for that one. Then pass to another vice ?

Nope. For me this exercise is about living up to my chosen ideal (which will of course be different for everyone).

Yes I understand and agree, but isn't that the work of step 3?

Haha is it? It's been awhile..

Indeed. I noticed these at once when I did pore breathing in a few different places. Do you think it will affect also the quality when I start to impregnate the energy?

It depends on how well you can tune it out and connect to the energy channel you want to draw in. When I was doing this, it was difficult for me to completely separate myself from my surroundings (probably should go back and practice this more). If this is a problem for you when you start the room impregnation, you might consider impregnating a citrine or quartz or other crystal to filter out any negativity. Might also try to pass it through a consecrated candle to transmute via fire.

[RockDemon]

Room impregnation is also step 3 work but thanks anyway, I'll take a note. I am going to reach step 3 sooner or later.

[Mem]

Hey OP, nice to see things are progressing for you.

How long were you on step one for, if you do not mind me asking? Commentaries look damaging progress-wise in my honest opinion, but whatever works for you.I would recommend studying astrology for the consciousness part of your question, (natal chart) and for a lot of other benefits. Learning it properly though, natal chart readings on the internet are useless, i think. You're experience so far has been thought-provoking.

Thanks! Keep it up!

[RockDemon]

Thank you as well.
I have a wonderful natal astrology chart done by one of the members here. And it is being helpful in many different ways. But would you please clarify how exactly it can be helpful for that question?

As for how long it took me for the step 1, I think it is 6-9 months. However, it took me a while as I made a routine for myself, and I was trying some other stuff besides IIH, plus having those breathing issues. But in general I think it shouldn't have taken more than 3 months.

[cyberdemon]

Autosuggestions is kind of like hypnosis. Bardon's already explained how it works and it doesn't get any easier than that.

Please stop doing "I am conscious all the time 1, I am conscious all the time 2 ... I am conscious all the time 40", and I'll tell you why. First off, the wording is making it redundant. Then, get rid of the numbers, and now you have a distinct 3-syllable mantra: "I'm conscious."

Simplicity is what makes this thing perfect. The message is clear, it's fast, it's hypnotic after a while. You can literally put yourself in a trance by repeating "I'm conscious" in your own pace. Match it with your inhaling, and you're incorporating breathing techniques. Exercise your thought-skills to kill stemming thoughts and voila. You're conscious.

I see you've already quit smoking using IIH. That's a great example of how this thing works! For whatever intent and purpose you have, and it doesn't matter what language you use because it's the intent you're focusing, keep it simple, and make it strong.

Sensory training isn't as hard as people think they might be. What you're fighting here literally is receptor-fatigue. A flowing river is a good example. Imagine you're at least sitting on the river bank with your feet in the water, if not your whole body (except head) under water.

You're going to feel three things. First is the temperature. Cold or warm? Second is the pressure, the force of the water. The third and most important is your body's hair and how it's reacting to the water flow. This is better observed in the wind when the temperature and pressure are significantly less giving you more space to acknowledge the breeze under your skin when it makes the hair .. uh .. drift like a curtain. You know what I mean. (I don't have the correct word.)

The point of sensory training is to be able to be aware of all the things around you. In flowing water, at some point you will even get used to the temperature of the water and just be left with feeling the flow pressure and the direction the water is going. What you have to do is NOT let this happen. Your body's nerves' receptors will get fatigued, but with constant focus on them they will recharge at a rate sufficient to continuously feel its stimulus. You must feel all the aspects for .. what was it Bardon said, 30 minutes?

The best part of sensory training is that it works with both Physical and Mental at the same time.

You like music, yes? Dancing is a great way to do sensory training. Feel the music. Exert your presence.

(and here's where I go off in a rant about how much I like bass music and electronica and dubstep but nope)

[RockDemon]

Autosuggestions is kind of like hypnosis. Bardon's already explained how it works and it doesn't get any easier than that.

Please stop doing "I am conscious all the time 1, I am conscious all the time 2 ... I am conscious all the time 40", and I'll tell you why. First off, the wording is making it redundant. Then, get rid of the numbers, and now you have a distinct 3-syllable mantra: "I'm conscious."

Simplicity is what makes this thing perfect. The message is clear, it's fast, it's hypnotic after a while. You can literally put yourself in a trance by repeating "I'm conscious" in your own pace. Match it with your inhaling, and you're incorporating breathing techniques. Exercise your thought-skills to kill stemming thoughts and voila. You're conscious.

I see you've already quit smoking using IIH. That's a great example of how this thing works! For whatever intent and purpose you have, and it doesn't matter what language you use because it's the intent you're focusing, keep it simple, and make it strong.

I think I get why I need to do more simple phrases. I'll try that and see how it works.
However do you really think that wording is really useless? You see when I was trying it for my smoking habit at first I was using "I do not want to smoke".. though I guess it would be better to use just "I do not smoke". However after a while when I began smoking less and less my subconscious began tricking me. It was like "come on we are so angry at this moment we need to smoke to relax" or "come on we have done so much job you deserve just one cigarette". That is when I added some wording. I began using "I do not want to smoke no matter what". And that is when I completely gave up smoking.

Sensory training isn't as hard as people think they might be. What you're fighting here literally is receptor-fatigue. A flowing river is a good example. Imagine you're at least sitting on the river bank with your feet in the water, if not your whole body (except head) under water.

You're going to feel three things. First is the temperature. Cold or warm? Second is the pressure, the force of the water. The third and most important is your body's hair and how it's reacting to the water flow. This is better observed in the wind when the temperature and pressure are significantly less giving you more space to acknowledge the breeze under your skin when it makes the hair .. uh .. drift like a curtain. You know what I mean. (I don't have the correct word.)

The point of sensory training is to be able to be aware of all the things around you. In flowing water, at some point you will even get used to the temperature of the water and just be left with feeling the flow pressure and the direction the water is going. What you have to do is NOT let this happen. Your body's nerves' receptors will get fatigued, but with constant focus on them they will recharge at a rate sufficient to continuously feel its stimulus. You must feel all the aspects for .. what was it Bardon said, 30 minutes?

The best part of sensory training is that it works with both Physical and Mental at the same time.

You like music, yes? Dancing is a great way to do sensory training. Feel the music. Exert your presence.

(and here's where I go off in a rant about how much I like bass music and electronica and dubstep but nope)

Yes, after all we have all these sense, we've just numbed them in a while and now open them up again. So in the example of the water I always need to feel the temperature besides the pressure as well? Because temperature is always there... the same is with the clock, isn't it? The clock on the wall is always there. It is always ticking. It is just our ears that are numbed to that sound.
Yes it is 30 minutes.

Thanks for replying Cyberdemon.By the way are you a teacher by profession? I mean you explain things in such a simple way, so easy to understand.

[Mem]

Hi OP. I would like to clarify, but it is not easy to do. It is a big topic, if you study your horoscope you'll understand. Getting a chart done by someone else is pointless.

At a simple level, if you studied the word conscious and thought of what actually is happening to you during the times you describe, i can bet we'd both have a laugh.

[RockDemon]

Hi OP. I would like to clarify, but it is not easy to do. It is a big topic, if you study your horoscope you'll understand. Getting a chart done by someone else is pointless.

At a simple level, if you studied the word conscious and thought of what actually is happening to you during the times you describe, i can bet we'd both have a laugh.

Hello Mem, please do go on and try to explain. I see that what you say has some value.But I am not sure what you are talking about. You say study your horoscope, but then say getting a chart by someone else is pointless and that the charts from internet are useless altogether. So would at least provide some resources? So that I am able to understand you.

[Haelos]

First of all, I'm sorry. I totally forgot I posted here, and I became preoccupied with other, more important matters. Your post on my thread made me remember this. I'm sure I have a few other threads hanging around I have yet to fully reply to as well.. Anyway..

By the way are you familiar with Dream and Sleep Yoga by Rinpoche ? I think there some connections here. According to it the following happens. When we sleep and dream, our mind begins to wander through our chakras. Moreover it tends to get locked on the chakras that are closed or have some issues. Probably the same is with daydream.
Once when meditating before to fall asleep I was able to consciously observe the process. It seemed that my mind/energy was at first locked in mooladhara. Then after some time, it went up to solar plexus, being locked up there for a while, it went up again to anahata chakra or heart chakra. Being locked there for a while, it went up to throat chakra. Then it was going back and forth between the heart and throat chakra. And not going up than throat chakra anymore. I tried even to consciously bring it forth, but it didn't worked that much, and after a while the energy went back to the mooladhara again. And the process repeated. I guess I have some serious issues in my heart and throat chakra.
Maybe the same process happens when daydreaming and you have some issues with throat chakra as well?
Thus maybe if we resolve these issues we'll be able to be conscious all the time? What do you think?

I've never heard of any theories like this, but it's a viable hypothesis, for sure. The only way to test it properly would be to have someone trained in the Sight watch your body during one of these events of dreaming-consciousness.

I seem to have the same issues with my throat and heart areas, but it isn't just the chakra centers that are clogged up. In fact, my spine is relatively clear of any blockages. It's the front portion of my body and the physical energetic centers that have the most issues.

A similar process was with step 1. I already was used to meditate when I began IIH. So observation and concentrating on a thought were relatively easy.
However before IIH I usually meditated with guided meditations or binaural beats. So vacancy was a little beat tricky. Having nothing to concentrate on , I began to messing with my breath. Fortunately I was able to resolve it by first doing some rhythmic breaths then meditating.

Besides when I wasn't so much into the occult yet and some series of death and rebirth events where happening to my life in a few years, I was keeping a "diary of philosophical thoughts". And I found it a few days back and when I read it, it seems that I was able to discover many universal laws on my own. Just using my own words. Moreover many times the writing process resembled to be an automatic, maybe some spirit channeled those to me?

I keep seeing a lot of similarities between our paths. You're further behind, but more dedicated than I am, and we're walking very closely to the same line.

I have a lot of theories, but I can't be sure of any one of them. I know certain inspiration comes directly from my work with the Gods. Other inspiration seems to come from a past self, or the universe, or God, or whatever other sources could be out there.

Don't worry about where it comes from, just worry about putting to use what is usable.

I have no issues breathing inward through my pores, but breathing out is a bit more difficult. Especially if I'm trying to pass an energetic blockage.
Breathing outwards it feels more like a bubble is swelling up under my skin. For a while, I caused an issue in the muscles in the front of my throat. I tried pore-breathing a blockage out of my neck area, and it wouldn't budge past my skin, causing my muscles to swell painfully. It felt like the tendons in my throat were pumped full of a thick fluid.
It was unpleasant to say the least, and I learned that only fully breathing the blockage out from it's source, through my body, and out my nose, is the only way to successfully pass them. Also intense crying. Which is weird.

Well this is kinda strange. I didn't breath out with pores yet, however today since the morning till now I have some strange feeling in my throat. I thought that this is just that I caught a flu/cold, but it is a little bit different, and is very similar to the feeling you describe. Need to do more observations.
Do you think this feeling you had in throat may complement the supposition about the throat chakra issues?

I'm not sure entirely what you mean here.
I will point out that I have had a persistent bacterial infection in my ear/nose/throat region for many, many, many months. I'm not sure if this infection caused the energetic blockage, or the blockage caused the infection.
Either way, illness has a very noticeable effect on the energetic body, and it's something to look out for.

[Mem]

It really is not easy to explain, sorry. To put it simply, it is being in control of fate. If you learn how to read your own chart and refine, then you will naturally understand. As for resources, i can't transfer how i learned astrology but i am sure there are plenty of good books available. Google brought up https://www.light.org/hermetic-astrology.cfm and reading through this page, i have the same thoughts as they do, so how this might be valuable to you, you can read there. If i could help, i would point out the importance of the natal chart, and refinement. As to getting a chart reading, why you need to do it yourself, you will understand once you study a little. And why the internet horoscopes are garbage? You will understand when you compare your reading to theirs.

I am happy to help you with astrological questions if you do end up picking up a good book. The natal chart books on that page look pretty good, although even they say that it is an intermediate skill, but can be used by beginners. So i would learn the basics first. I think they have PDFs of every book on that website.

[cyberdemon]

It is a big topic, if you study your horoscope you'll understand. Getting a chart done by someone else is pointless.

I second this. Horoscopes are awesome, the entire Astrology paradigm went into this one train of thought and has refined it on a worldwide scale. The problem with "chart done by someone else" is in the lack of its individuality. But for a general understanding, I use an app on my android called Daily Horosope (with a pink DH icon, if you look for it on the Play Store) which aims to bring a touch of personality to the mass reading and I get a very nice and surprisingly accurate feel for the upcoming 24 hours. And that's the one and only Horoscope reading by an anonymous source that I will encourage anyone to use, honestly.

I think I get why I need to do more simple phrases. I'll try that and see how it works.
However do you really think that wording is really useless? You see when I was trying it for my smoking habit at first I was using "I do not want to smoke".. though I guess it would be better to use just "I do not smoke". However after a while when I began smoking less and less my subconscious began tricking me. It was like "come on we are so angry at this moment we need to smoke to relax" or "come on we have done so much job you deserve just one cigarette". That is when I added some wording. I began using "I do not want to smoke no matter what". And that is when I completely gave up smoking.

I wouldn't say useless, I'd say complicated. The more terms you add, the more things you're adding to the packet of data that's sent out. The less there are, the more often they can be sent in the same amount of time, and also processed faster. See, we're only human, and on the other side of the veil consciousness is divine. Speed is a thing we've to try to come into terms with, just to get a small understanding of how the other side works. For hypnosis, autosuggestion, chanting, being concise is therefore important. On the other hand, for large-scale projects like summonings and rituals, I wouldn't limit. In those cases, being detailed is more important.

Remember how Bardon said "someone trying to catch two rabbits won't catch either"? Likewise, if you augment chanting "I'm conscious", then with a sigil, then a ritual or prayer with the same thing but in more detail "I am conscious, of all my surroundings, on all planes" etc etc.. you're chasing the one rabbit with multiple targeting systems.

Yes, after all we have all these sense, we've just numbed them in a while and now open them up again. So in the example of the water I always need to feel the temperature besides the pressure as well? Because temperature is always there... the same is with the clock, isn't it? The clock on the wall is always there. It is always ticking. It is just our ears that are numbed to that sound.
Yes it is 30 minutes.

Thanks for replying Cyberdemon.By the way are you a teacher by profession? I mean you explain things in such a simple way, so easy to understand.

Incorrect. There are three things. Temperature, pressure, sensation, in other words. Read what I said again about feeling the water under your skin when the hair on your skin is stimulated. This is the smallest feeling, easiest to become adapted to. Also remember that I'm just using examples here to show how small the effects can be, and how fast the smallest effects can be forgotten.

If I remember correctly, Bardon asked to imagine the clock rhythm as part of sensory practice, instead of listening to an actual clock. Similar to how he instructed to imagine the image of an object first with eyes closed, then with eyes open. Augmented Reality (AR) is a scientific term for that, by the way, and it's being researched by mobile phone and game companies..

But yes, you're right, a physical clock is always ticking. Honestly? I don't expect people to be able to hear it that easily for example if there is a person talking in the room or if there is music playing because the physical effect of those sounds are so much higher than the clock ticking that it becomes drowned beyond perception. Not to do with the capability of the magician! Sound wave from the other source just flattens the sound wave from the clock. In such a case you're trying to perceive a thing that's already dying on its own, on its way to you, which is pointless.

I'm not a teacher! I'm a Libra!

[RockDemon]

It really is not easy to explain, sorry. To put it simply, it is being in control of fate. If you learn how to read your own chart and refine, then you will naturally understand. As for resources, i can't transfer how i learned astrology but i am sure there are plenty of good books available. Google brought up https://www.light.org/hermetic-astrology.cfm and reading through this page, i have the same thoughts as they do, so how this might be valuable to you, you can read there. If i could help, i would point out the importance of the natal chart, and refinement. As to getting a chart reading, why you need to do it yourself, you will understand once you study a little. And why the internet horoscopes are garbage? You will understand when you compare your reading to theirs.

I am happy to help you with astrological questions if you do end up picking up a good book. The natal chart books on that page look pretty good, although even they say that it is an intermediate skill, but can be used by beginners. So i would learn the basics first. I think they have PDFs of every book on that website.

I don't mean you to spoonfeed me, but at least when you talk about something I need to have some reference to study to understand you. Thank you. I will study some horoscope and contact you with some info.

[RockDemon]

I second this. Horoscopes are awesome, the entire Astrology paradigm went into this one train of thought and has refined it on a worldwide scale. The problem with "chart done by someone else" is in the lack of its individuality. But for a general understanding, I use an app on my android called Daily Horosope (with a pink DH icon, if you look for it on the Play Store) which aims to bring a touch of personality to the mass reading and I get a very nice and surprisingly accurate feel for the upcoming 24 hours. And that's the one and only Horoscope reading by an anonymous source that I will encourage anyone to use, honestly.

Great I'll check this.

Remember how Bardon said "someone trying to catch two rabbits won't catch either"? Likewise, if you augment chanting "I'm conscious", then with a sigil, then a ritual or prayer with the same thing but in more detail "I am conscious, of all my surroundings, on all planes" etc etc.. you're chasing the one rabbit with multiple targeting systems.

So one target and the more targeting systems the better?

If I remember correctly, Bardon asked to imagine the clock rhythm as part of sensory practice, instead of listening to an actual clock. Similar to how he instructed to imagine the image of an object first with eyes closed, then with eyes open. Augmented Reality (AR) is a scientific term for that, by the way, and it's being researched by mobile phone and game companies..

But yes, you're right, a physical clock is always ticking. Honestly? I don't expect people to be able to hear it that easily for example if there is a person talking in the room or if there is music playing because the physical effect of those sounds are so much higher than the clock ticking that it becomes drowned beyond perception. Not to do with the capability of the magician! Sound wave from the other source just flattens the sound wave from the clock. In such a case you're trying to perceive a thing that's already dying on its own, on its way to you, which is pointless.

No he at first says to listen to the sound of the actual clock. And then imagine the sound. And I get what you mean that he soundwave dies on it's own. But I am able to listen to it even through noises sometimes, besides even in a quiet environment I found that most people do not listen the clock ticking.

I'm not a teacher! I'm a Libra!

Do Libras have good explaining skills?

[RockDemon]

First of all, I'm sorry. I totally forgot I posted here, and I became preoccupied with other, more important matters. Your post on my thread made me remember this. I'm sure I have a few other threads hanging around I have yet to fully reply to as well.. Anyway..

It's okay , I noticed this tendency to forget posts of yours since my first post here

By the way do you use the "View active topics" or "View your posts" , they are very helpful in keeping track of posts.

I keep seeing a lot of similarities between our paths. You're further behind, but more dedicated than I am, and we're walking very closely to the same line.

I have a lot of theories, but I can't be sure of any one of them. I know certain inspiration comes directly from my work with the Gods. Other inspiration seems to come from a past self, or the universe, or God, or whatever other sources could be out there.

Don't worry about where it comes from, just worry about putting to use what is usable.

Yes, it is not like I have found "the ultimate truth" or anything special, just me discovering for myself and understanding with my own terms some wisdoms that are known from the ancient times.

Don't worry about where it comes from, just worry about putting to use what is usable.

One of the primary reasons I am into the occult.

I'm not sure entirely what you mean here.
I will point out that I have had a persistent bacterial infection in my ear/nose/throat region for many, many, many months. I'm not sure if this infection caused the energetic blockage, or the blockage caused the infection.
Either way, illness has a very noticeable effect on the energetic body, and it's something to look out for.

Well thankfully it was just a flu, and I was able to hand it. Usually when I get sick it lasts for about 2+ weeks, this time it lasted only a few days. I think the reason for that is the impregnation of air and food and water with health.
But yes it sort of kicked me out of equilibrium, not that I am in full equilibrium but it intensified my negative traits.

I hope you are healthy now and dealt with the infection.

[cyberdemon]

So one target and the more targeting systems the better?

No he at first says to listen to the sound of the actual clock. And then imagine the sound. And I get what you mean that he soundwave dies on it's own. But I am able to listen to it even through noises sometimes, besides even in a quiet environment I found that most people do not listen the clock ticking.

Do Libras have good explaining skills?

Obviously. It amplifies the effect and also works like a contingency plan.

It's been forever since I read Bardon's books soooo yeah I don't remember things perfectly. If you can find small things through noise, that's great! It means you know how the theory is working and also should be encouragement for more sensory training. My specialty in sound perception since I did my training is being able to identify a person by the sound of their footsteps. I augment that with the perception of presence - the air pressure exerted by a person when they are in the area.

Libras are balanced. This sign is considered by many to be the best star sign to have, although others will say Capricorns are better because of their nature to over-achieve.

[RockDemon]

Obviously. It amplifies the effect and also works like a contingency plan.

Yes,I actually tried so a few times, so far the effects are great.

It's been forever since I read Bardon's books soooo yeah I don't remember things perfectly. If you can find small things through noise, that's great! It means you know how the theory is working and also should be encouragement for more sensory training. My specialty in sound perception since I did my training is being able to identify a person by the sound of their footsteps. I augment that with the perception of presence - the air pressure exerted by a person when they are in the area.

Wow that is great!

Libras are balanced. This sign is considered by many to be the best star sign to have, although others will say Capricorns are better because of their nature to over-achieve.

Come on, zodiac is not that mundane to have best or worst signs. Each sign has it's vices and virtues.