okay so everything is ... real ??????

[Haelos]

This world is not OUR perception but the Source's mental construction. Yes, like above, so below, our perceptions can influence the surroundings. Everything in this world is dual. Just like the Source is simultaneously the All and No-thing (Ain), so our universe is both real and an illusion. That's why it is called 'maya' because it FEELS real. We have to overcome it and realise the oneness of everything before uniting with the Source. The situation is akin to Earth rotating around the Sun but we can't feel it thanks to gravity.

As for why the universe came into existence I can give a reason from the Zohar. YHVH wanted to experience pleasure. So the Malkuth was created to experience goodness for the sake of God. That's what the esoteric Jews strive for. Normally, it is thought that the Source wanted 'to know' how it feels to exist. Hence, here we are.

Some people here do read.


The kybalion is like a 30 page book. There's no excuse for it to not have been read by everyone on this forum.

[cyberdemon]

Some people here do read.


The kybalion is like a 30 page book. There's no excuse for it to not have been read by everyone on this forum.

fine i'll dig it up in the folders, brb.
anything else pertaining to existence theory i should be reading? i actually skipped school today to do reading

[Haelos]

Read Bardons IIH and PME if you haven't. Pretty sure he talks about the death proceaa in one of those two books. I guess the "Emerald Tablets of Hermes Trismagistus" is an acceptable and short read.
I'm quite sure there are more I know of. Any book on Kaballah, really. Or any book dealing with the otherworlds.

Many things only exist for those on the physical plane. Remember, we only have like 6 or 7 general perceptory organs. Not a lot, if you ask me.

Sorry for any typos. This was a quick mobile post.

[cyberdemon]

Read Bardons IIH and PME if you haven't. Pretty sure he talks about the death proceaa in one of those two books. I guess the "Emerald Tablets of Hermes Trismagistus" is an acceptable and short read.
I'm quite sure there are more I know of. Any book on Kaballah, really. Or any book dealing with the otherworlds.

Many things only exist for those on the physical plane. Remember, we only have like 6 or 7 general perceptory organs. Not a lot, if you ask me.

Sorry for any typos. This was a quick mobile post.

i've read IIH, nothing on the mariana's trench deep level of interesting i'm looking for at the moment

what's that egyptian book? book of the dead?

[Haelos]

Yes, both the Egyptian and Tibetan "Books of the Dead" are worth study. Though they are not quick and easy reads.

You'd be surprised at the secrets Bardon shares that you probably overlooked. The simple way of writing hides the "mysteries" in plain English. It's worth two or three more reads.
The sane goes for "The Science kf Breath".

[Haelos]

Wow, again; Sorry for the typos in the last posts. I've been fairly limited in my technology lately. Everything is either broken or doesn't type right.

I digress;

Honestly, reading back through Bardo Thodol, I don't think you'll have very much use for the books of the Dead. If you didn't learn what you needed from Bardon, you weren't reading well enough.
Bardo Thodol and the "Egyptian Book of the Dead" are fairly.. Hmm.... Path specific..
Unless you plan on leading the dead through the afterlife, or you intend to be a Death Midwife, there isn't much you can learn, from a practical standpoint, from either of these books.

They give very precise instructions in their traditions work on how to lead the deceased through the otherworlds. So far, I've found absolutely nothing that can be used from these books, for anything except the above stated purpose. Whomever wrote Bardo Thodol was a genius. And like, seriously, this is magick so far above our paygrade that it isn't funny.


I've *kind of* worked out the first several pages of the Thodol in words that make more practical sense for someone who isn't being instructed by a guru, or who has prior knowledge of certain key concepts.


Like I said in a previous post, there comes a point where knowledge is pointless without practical application. I don't see you (cyberdemon) as being a person who's intent is to dedicate their life to those without one. So in all honesty, and please do not think I mean any offense by this, these books just aren't for you.
I'm not saying you won't learn from them, nor that they can't offer you insight. I'm saying they're specific books written for a specific goal, and from my (albeit limited) understanding of you, they are not within your scope of interest.
I'm not trying to dissuade you from reading them, however. In fact, I love being proven wrong. If you were to take up acting as a soul-guide, I would be greatly enthralled.




Look past the seemingly-plain English of the books you've read so far and dig for the mysteries they hide. Learn some Kabbalah and apply it to what you already know of your occult practice.
I wouldn't have said this a few years ago, but understanding the Sefirot from a *practical* point of view (especially how they relate to one another and the universe/reality) is one of the most important stepping stones for any true magician.

I don't mean to sound like a few people I could name around the net in bringing this up, but it needs to be done;

In Fullmetal Alchemist (the anime and manga series), the character called Scar has an ability in his left arms "magical" tattoo that allows him to nearly-instantly know and understand the physical chemical make-up of an object.
It's not quite that exaggerated, and not (to my knowledge) on the physical plane, but this is an ability granted through mastery of the Tree of Life (and I'm sure, among other paths).
A Kabbalist can look at any object and know the spirits that inhabit the object, the process that was taken to create it, the basic materials that it's made of, among many other, ridiculously redundant traits about the thing.
Sure, anyone can look at a hand-crafted chair and tell you it's made out of wood. But a true magician could give you the name of the tree spirit the wood was cut from, he could put you into contact with said spirit for whatever communication was desired, and he could tell you the exact emotions that were felt at every stage of the creation process, from birth of the tree spirit in this plane to the feelings of grandma knitting in the afternoon while sitting in the now-old chair.



I'm just saying. If you're having an existential crisis, you just aren't reading (well) enough. By mixing Bardons three books with everything else that I've stumbled upon in my life, I've found almost nothing that I can't assimilate into my knowledge of reality. There are no such things as "paradigms" when it comes to magick or life. Only a limited and ever-growing understanding.
I'm still working out how the Christian creation myth came about though..
Seriously, I feel like some type of loser fangirl saying this so much, and in so many places. MO F-ing BARDON, MATES. There has never been a more adept magician to walk our earth since the modern rediscovery of electricity (the past 300 years). If there has been, they're the person pulling the strings behind the Illuminutti, and all of the negativity has a purpose. They've stayed in complete secret, and they've never contributed to science in their own name. This theory, as I'm sure you're aware, is unlikely.




Let me tell you a short story;

Many, many, many lifetimes ago, you (and everyone else) cried out to God and said: "God, I had no chance to better myself in this life. You did not show me how to get close to you."
So God said, "Yo, my nigga Franz. Go write a book for these poor homies. Tell them what they need to know."
But Bardon was like "But God, I've been killed for sharing this information before! I've killed others for the same! Why would you tell me to do such a thing?"
And God replied: "Ahhh, cause I want cyberdemon to be my best nigga to and hang up here in the clouds. The dude needs to read our works so we can get some shit done, a'ight?"

And thus, Initiation into Hermetics, Practice of Magical Evocation, and Key to the True Qabala were all written, explicitly for you: The poor soul who needs these works at this time.



Sorry for the stupid post. First time at a keyboard in a while. Hope I brought some laughs and something to build off of practically. I'm out for a while.

[cyberdemon]

Many, many, many lifetimes ago, you (and everyone else) cried out to God and said: "God, I had no chance to better myself in this life. You did not show me how to get close to you."
So God said, "Yo, my nigga Franz. Go write a book for these poor homies. Tell them what they need to know."
But Bardon was like "But God, I've been killed for sharing this information before! I've killed others for the same! Why would you tell me to do such a thing?"
And God replied: "Ahhh, cause I want cyberdemon to be my best nigga to and hang up here in the clouds. The dude needs to read our works so we can get some shit done, a'ight?"

I'M SCREAMING THIS IS LITERALLY THE BEST THING ON THE FORUM SO FAR OMG

ahem

alright
well
i thought Book of Dead would have some clues about afterlifey planes

i'll be back with in depth reply soon. on my phone at the moment.

[Haelos]

well
i thought Book of Dead would have some clues about afterlifey planes

i'll be back with in depth reply soon. on my phone at the moment.

Well, Bardo Thodol does describe what it's like to a dying person from a yogic standpoint.
The Egyptian book is only used as a prayer book. It has spells to be recited by a priest over your death and funeral, or by the dead themselves.

As learned from Bardon, the planes you move to when you die are the same ones we visit in our work.
You have the Earth-sphere and the astral realm near the Earth, which is where we are now, and where we go when we dream.
Then you have all of the higher and lower planes of existence, such as those of the planetary spheres, or of the astrological.
There are both lower and higher density forms of many of these planes.
There are also several planes that exist only above us, and only below us.

Most "ghosts" and trapped human or animal spirits are still in the zone girdling the earth. Most spiritual entities stay within their own sphere of influence. This does manifest on the physical plane, but their goal isn't necessarily *to* influence it.
Vibrations affecting and effecting vibrations, and whatnot.

If you haven't already, learn about ecstatic trance, how to perform it, and how to go on a "shamanic" journey.
You can visit these planes for yourself and see how your own mind has an influence on how you see what you see in these planes.

I could keep writing random bits of seemingly related texts, but I'm a bit tired, and I think you get the point by now. I'll probably write up a few contributions soon that might strike your fancy. We'll see how I'm feeling.

[RockDemon]

This world is not OUR perception but the Source's mental construction. Yes, like above, so below, our perceptions can influence the surroundings. Everything in this world is dual. Just like the Source is simultaneously the All and No-thing (Ain), so our universe is both real and an illusion. That's why it is called 'maya' because it FEELS real. We have to overcome it and realise the oneness of everything before uniting with the Source. The situation is akin to Earth rotating around the Sun but we can't feel it thanks to gravity.

Thank you!
You really summarized my thoughts about this question.

As for why the universe came into existence I can give a reason from the Zohar. YHVH wanted to experience pleasure. So the Malkuth was created to experience goodness for the sake of God. That's what the esoteric Jews strive for. Normally, it is thought that the Source wanted 'to know' how it feels to exist. Hence, here we are.

Also as Jung would say it God becoming conscious of itself.

[RockDemon]

The sane goes for "The Science kf Breath".

Sorry for quoting this sentence full of typos however this is so true! Science of breath is one of the easiest yet one of the most powerful practices I came up with.

[cyberdemon]

Like I said in a previous post, there comes a point where knowledge is pointless without practical application. I don't see you (cyberdemon) as being a person who's intent is to dedicate their life to those without one. So in all honesty, and please do not think I mean any offense by this, these books just aren't for you.
I'm not saying you won't learn from them, nor that they can't offer you insight. I'm saying they're specific books written for a specific goal, and from my (albeit limited) understanding of you, they are not within your scope of interest.
I'm not trying to dissuade you from reading them, however. In fact, I love being proven wrong. If you were to take up acting as a soul-guide, I would be greatly enthralled.

there was a nice trilogy by garth nix back in the day, the main character was an "abhorsen" who is basically a soul-guide. he or she used a set of 9 bells to help ferry souls across 9 gates-of-hell through a river-styx sort of multi-plane-transversing river, and in real life those 9 bells had magic effects. oh and the real life also had a wall up north and other fun things that i think g.r.r.martin ripped off for game of thrones. fun read.

but being in the medical field, i'll have to be doing plenty of the opposite of sending souls off. i already know i'm not going to have fun because i kind of have a sort of nihilistic view of humanity at the moment so i'll probably stick to pediatrics or general medicine or something less "i'm going to put a lightning rod in your heart to make it beat a few hundred thousand extra beats" pacemaker cardiology.

Look past the seemingly-plain English of the books you've read so far and dig for the mysteries they hide. Learn some Kabbalah and apply it to what you already know of your occult practice.
I wouldn't have said this a few years ago, but understanding the Sefirot from a *practical* point of view (especially how they relate to one another and the universe/reality) is one of the most important stepping stones for any true magician.

so you're saying kabbalah is a good route to head into.
see, here's my problem. from a chaos magick standpoint, i'm open to reading anything and everything. after going through BCM and IIH very fast early last year i haven't actually bothered going through any of the other "standard texts" in favour of continuing looking for magick practices in current times that "actual" people are using and their theories and understandings. i've always had a sort of "uh no thanks" sort of attitude towards a practice-makes-perfect magick discipline since even at my entry into magick was i completely effective in all the ways without me ever havinga any training on anything before. like, i only read BCM and IIH to get the practical things out of them, to learn methodology and its physics and only the very basics of the underlying philosophy. i'd rather form my own set of philosophies instead of learning and following someone else's, especially another magician's, given we work in such close quarters with "the great beyond".
and i've reason to have that sort of skepticism, i mean, if i didn't stumble across here i would've allowed JoS doctrination, mainstream conspiracy theories and etc to have messed up my belief systems for life.
i mean its already enough that i doubt the shape of the earth.

therefore, people here's ideas and understandings have far greater relevance to me than old/texts from people i've never talked to in any way.

I'm just saying. If you're having an existential crisis, you just aren't reading (well) enough. By mixing Bardons three books with everything else that I've stumbled upon in my life, I've found almost nothing that I can't assimilate into my knowledge of reality. There are no such things as "paradigms" when it comes to magick or life. Only a limited and ever-growing understanding.
I'm still working out how the Christian creation myth came about though..
Seriously, I feel like some type of loser fangirl saying this so much, and in so many places. MO F-ing BARDON, MATES. There has never been a more adept magician to walk our earth since the modern rediscovery of electricity (the past 300 years). If there has been, they're the person pulling the strings behind the Illuminutti, and all of the negativity has a purpose. They've stayed in complete secret, and they've never contributed to science in their own name. This theory, as I'm sure you're aware, is unlikely.

ugh dont start with illuminati gibberish. the greatest guild on earth no doubt but there's too many gaps to fill.
no such thing as paradigms is something i've concluded ages ago. i guess that's why i'm into "chaos" magick but not even by its usual definitions.


anyway back on topic i'm still not really satisfied with the explanations so far over the whole existence thing. i mean... it can't be that simple. gut feeling. i won't say its a crisis but i think i'm looking for something other than "you're imagining it". if i am it disregards everyone on the planet as individuals making me basically the only "living" organism. it's not that i can't cope with that, it's just that it doesn't feel feasible. i won't say it wouldn't be worth the effort because if that's the way to go there's all these "meaning of your life" things, but i'm saying it's a little redundant to spend this much energy on any singular instance of existence by a greater singular instance of existence. i suppose that's the philosophy behind anton la vey's "u r god" thing. it freaking bores me. call me a psychopath. we've all the hints towards intelligent design that any logical thinking person will conclude to a greater-ness of some sort regardless of its shape or form (for example there'd even be forms of atheism that computes everything as a non-living instance of god).

my point is still this..

it's all here. all around and everywhere. this is it, and from where we are, there is no other. shit's overwhelming bruh.

[Napoli]

To be honest I feel that going through all these physical incarnations, struggle, suffering, learning to achieve spiritual completion and then unite with the Source seems irrational and should I say a bit sadistic? By far the things discussed in this thread the most correct and best explanation I have found. People say that after death everything is peaceful. To stop our continuous cycle of incarnation and to realise our oneness with the universe through the aforementioned processes will give us the ultimate freedom and peace. The Source is all love. I don't know but I disagree. Maybe I don't know what I am talking about or maybe I am too much of a pessimist? I wish I knew the answer to these questions of mine. I must say to find the meaning of life was one of the biggest reasons for me to come to the occult. Let's see how far I go.

[cyberdemon]

mark sargent once put "occult studies" as "trying to leave without dying", aptly i guess.

[Haelos]

mark sargent once put "occult studies" as "trying to leave without dying", aptly i guess.

I can relate to this.
I've almost died a few times, and though I ran away from it, I seek the same experiences that set me face to face with death (spiritual experiences, not like. Skydiving, or something).

One day, as I said in another thread buried somewhere from ages ago, when I die, it will be by my own choice, and the only thing I'll need to end my life, is my brain.

Maybe I'll build an alter or something, for myself. Die in front of it. Grow into a tree, or something.


Like I said, just be careful with these thought paths. You can send yourself to a place you do not want to be.
Paradoxes are important, and have their place, but too much time thinking about them is not good.

Also, stop identifying with that whole "chaos magick" thing.
More so than anyone I've ever met, I'm a chaos magician, and I f-ng hate the idea behind those words.
Seriously, I call myself a hermetisist or a ceremonial magician, but my practice is not like anything ever written about in a book.
At a certain point of understanding, all these dogmas between religions, "paradigms", and paths of magick fade into nothingness, and all you see are universal truths that pervade through all things.
Even in the darkness and most sinister lie, there is enough truth hidden within to fight the negativity.

It doesn't matter what your outlook is. Learn everything. Read every book. Apply all understandings.
I feel confident in talking shit about Aleister Crowley because I spent four years of my life doing nearly nothing but studying his works. Find your niche and fill it.
Don't ever read Crowley.

[cyberdemon]

Also, stop identifying with that whole "chaos magick" thing.
More so than anyone I've ever met, I'm a chaos magician, and I f-ng hate the idea behind those words.
Seriously, I call myself a hermetisist or a ceremonial magician, but my practice is not like anything ever written about in a book.
At a certain point of understanding, all these dogmas between religions, "paradigms", and paths of magick fade into nothingness, and all you see are universal truths that pervade through all things.
Even in the darkness and most sinister lie, there is enough truth hidden within to fight the negativity.

It doesn't matter what your outlook is. Learn everything. Read every book. Apply all understandings.
I feel confident in talking shit about Aleister Crowley because I spent four years of my life doing nearly nothing but studying his works. Find your niche and fill it.
Don't ever read Crowley.

lol i don't. i identify as a cyberdemon and my area of experience is demonology. "chaos magick" to me means studying all the things and applying everything that works, not the "idea behind those words" because that means i'll have to read HP lovecraft and believe in cthulhu as a new-age deity. we've enough deities and personifications as it is. or worse, i'll have to cum in a jar and bury it like austin spare. not to mention spare was friends with crowley.

[Nahemah]

"chaos magick" to me means studying all the things and applying everything that works,

That's Eclecticism not Chaos magick, but there's nothing wrong with eclecticism either, if it's what you do.

Some magickians may indeed be attempting to circumvent death, but it's not something that all or even most are, as far as I am aware.

There is no one size fits all in any of this.

[777Sloan]

The answer does not exist at the level of thought. Something exists prior to thought...find it...and you will find what you seek.

Continue to approach at the level of thought...and you will seek through all existence...all the while self-creating the very existence you so imagine could possess answer.